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Ant-Man and the Wasp and the Spoilers


Bastard of Boston

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This really should have been The Wasp, with Ant-Man as her comic relief sidekick. It's about rescuing her mum, the crime boss who's after her dad's tech, dealing with her dad's dubious past (though his responsibility for Ghost's problem turned out to pretty tenuous), and the lengths she'll go to in her quest (kidnapping Scott and risking his whole future). But for some reason it's written as Scott's story?

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On 7/18/2018 at 6:27 AM, felice said:

This really should have been The Wasp, with Ant-Man as her comic relief sidekick. It's about rescuing her mum, the crime boss who's after her dad's tech, dealing with her dad's dubious past (though his responsibility for Ghost's problem turned out to pretty tenuous), and the lengths she'll go to in her quest (kidnapping Scott and risking his whole future). But for some reason it's written as Scott's story?

Probably because while it's not much, Scott has a character arc, whilst Hope does not.   Sad considering as you say its a movie ostensibly about her but true.

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1 hour ago, Slurktan said:

Probably because while it's not much, Scott has a character arc

What arc? How is he different between the start and end of the film? He's no longer under house arrest, but that's just because time has passed. He gets back together with Hope, but that's because she forgives him. Hope could very easily have been given more of an arc if the script writers had given it any thought.

Not that it's a bad film; it's a great deal of fun.

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10 minutes ago, felice said:

What arc? How is he different between the start and end of the film? He's no longer under house arrest, but that's just because time has passed. He gets back together with Hope, but that's because she forgives him. Hope could very easily have been given more of an arc if the script writers had given it any thought.

Not that it's a bad film; it's a great deal of fun.

He makes the decision to potentially sacrifice seeing his daughter again and becoming the hero she wants him to be.

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9 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

He makes the decision to potentially sacrifice seeing his daughter again and becoming the hero she wants him to be.

He's always taken risks with potentially serious negative consequences. That's how he ended up under house arrest at the start of the film. It's how he ended up in prison at the start of the first film. His daughter encourages him to do what he wanted to do anyway.

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2 hours ago, felice said:

What arc? How is he different between the start and end of the film? He's no longer under house arrest, but that's just because time has passed. He gets back together with Hope, but that's because she forgives him. Hope could very easily have been given more of an arc if the script writers had given it any thought.

Hope absolutely could have been given an arc but that's not the choice the writers made.  Scott doesn't have a particularly strong arc (as you noted it's repetitive) or anything but it's more than she has got and that is a shame.  As I said earlier, I don't think it is a bad movie but it certainly isn't a good one either.

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Change arcs are only one type of arc.  Captain America, for instance, in all three movies, are so-called flat arcs.  Steve Rogers i's always trying to prevent the world from changing him.  The key factor is the character's self-doubt.  By the end of the story the doubt is resolved.  Same with Ant Man in this case.  It's a flat arc, and it is not wrong to be so.  Flat arcs are unusual in Hollywood, but a legit way to write a story.  I'm rather fond of them.

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  • 3 weeks later...

So coming to this kind of late (I'm British, it only just came out here.)

It was meandering. What I appreciated about the first film was it was a pretty straightforward heist film, the characters were allowed to bounce off each other in fun ways throughout, but the plot was very linear. The goals here kept shifting and not in a fun way, it just felt like a muddled mishmash of plotlines. The arms dealer guy was pointless, he should have been cut and Ghost and Goliath made into real villains.

I had preconceptions about the title too. I took the Ant-Man and the Wasp to mean, as there are two pairs, we'd kind of get a juxtaposition of the two generations of hero. But that didn't happen, instead we got ANT MAN and the wasp. The first female hero to be in the title is a good thing, but she was still very much playing second fiddle to Ant-Man.

That all said, I did have a decent time. Enough jokes landed, I like the cast, I don't have a problem suspending my disbelief with all the bending of physics, it never really dragged, and we needed something noticeably small scale after the Click. It was very inoffensive, but definitely nowhere near peak Marvel. Could, and should, have been a lot better.

Oh and the de-aging stuff continues to be impressive, but never quite right. :P 

Roll on Captain Marvel, I'm really pinning my hopes on you!

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1 hour ago, The EnglishBear said:

The arms dealer guy was pointless, he should have been cut and Ghost and Goliath made into real villains.

Boo. Goggins is always great and I like the idea of a movie with no real super-villain. ...More than I like the execution, admittedly. Marvel antagonists almost always get shafted in the editing phase. 

1 hour ago, The EnglishBear said:

I had preconceptions about the title too. I took the Ant-Man and the Wasp to mean, as there are two pairs, we'd kind of get a juxtaposition of the two generations of hero. But that didn't happen, instead we got ANT MAN and the wasp. The first female hero to be in the title is a good thing, but she was still very much playing second fiddle to Ant-Man.

Agreed. It's like they changed the title and touted it as a big deal but never bothered to change the script. Rudd mentioned in one interview that he was not sure there'd be an Ant Man 3 and maybe there shouldn't be. They should make The Wasp and have Rudd in a major supporting role next time.

Though I also wouldn't say no to an 80's Ant-Man movie with Douglas and Pfieffer, but I imagine the de-aging technology is still to expensive to use on the main characters of a movie. They're using it extensively in Captain Marvel for Fury and Coulson but I'd assume they're not on screen for 70% of the movie like a titular marvel character would be. 

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Saw this, it was fine but forgettable. Criminal waste of Michelle Pfeiffer, and as Felice mentioned the story really ought to have focused more on Hope/The Wasp, given the main plotline centred on rescuing her mother and various other stuff pertaining to her.

I always enjoy Goggins so he was a fun addition even if he didn't do much. I love XCon security though. 

I much preferred Incredibles 2 over this :P

 

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