Angel Eyes Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 So I’m a bit flummoxed as to why Viserys and Daenerys aren’t trained in arms, since Viserys is using a borrowed sword and gets his ass kicked by a whip-wielding Dothraki. As “king”, Viserys should have been able to fight for himself on the battlefield and/or defend himself from assassins sent by Robert. Besides, they were under the watch of Willem Darry, the master-at-arms of the Red Keep. Did Viserys ever ask him to train him? Or did he just sit around? Also, Jorah wouldn’t want his beloved Khaleesi to be unable to defend herself if she’s without a dragon, would he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf of The Wall Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 For Viserys. By whom? He was too young during his father's reign to be trained in arms and after they escaped when he is a teen he was too busy with staying alive. And for Daenerys, it's not even a possibility. She was a newborn when they escaped and even after all this time still she is too young and women in the World of ASOIaF aren't trained in arms. Arya's sword exercises are disguised as dancing classes. There are exeptions of course but not much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 I agree Viserys should have had more training in the martial department but Ser Willem was old and from what I gather working to provide the children with a roof and food to eat, so when he got off he probably needed rest not training a hot headed Viserys the art of the sword. Danny is a small girl and a princess she shouldnt be required to fight in any compacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Calthrop Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 They were trying to survive - they didn’t have the resources to commit to getting trained. This one is pretty simple IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Charles Calthrop said: They were trying to survive - they didn’t have the resources to commit to getting trained. This one is pretty simple IMO. Not just then for Daenerys; I’m also talking about the events of the books, when Daenerys is wandering the Red Waste with her khalasar, then as she conquers Slaver’s Bay and deals with the fallout. Why didn’t Jorah teach her? Wouldn’t want khaleesi to get hurt, and if she’s sans dragon, she’d be in real trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Calthrop Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: Not just then for Daenerys; I’m also talking about the events of the books, when Daenerys is wandering the Red Waste with her khalasar, then as she conquers Slaver’s Bay and deals with the fallout. Why didn’t Jorah teach her? Wouldn’t want khaleesi to get hurt, and if she’s sans dragon, she’d be in real trouble. Ah ok I thought you were just referring to their childhoods. This is a good question, particularly as Team Dany starts to add capable teachers. Not sure why they didn’t particularly as Barristan joins. Maybe just the cultural stigma against women bearing arms? Maybe they were a bit overconfident in the dragons and armies? Now that you mention it, it does seem like a lot of the nobles really didn’t spend enough time on training for such a martial society. Joffrey and Tommen seemed particularly backward here, but Renly, sweet Robin, Trystane, etc., also seemed to have lacked here. The Stark kids and Tyrell siblings almost seemed unusual with how much emphasis they put on good, consistent training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 Sometimes, one shot is all you need. Look at Meraxes. But the point on nobles and training in a martial society gives me an idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Hold Em Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 King Aerys kept Prince Viserys sheltered because he feared an attempt on his heir's life. He was not about to risk putting him through dangerous training with a live blade. I suppose Willem might have taught Viserys while in exile but he was an old man by then. Daenerys was too young to start training. The Targaryen women were fighters but it is not the way of an Andal like Willem to teach women to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shi Qiang Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 It isn't everybody who is cut out for fighting. Viserys is not brave. Daenerys and Rhaegar got all of the courage. I guess the God of Courage did not favor Viserys. But it's hard to knock Viserys completely because he was good enough to survive the streets of the Free Cities for years. And Dany is a little girl. It's not cool to teach the princess how to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 7 hours ago, Allardyce said: It isn't everybody who is cut out for fighting. Viserys is not brave. Daenerys and Rhaegar got all of the courage. I guess the God of Courage did not favor Viserys. But it's hard to knock Viserys completely because he was good enough to survive the streets of the Free Cities for years. And Dany is a little girl. It's not cool to teach the princess how to fight. Not cool for the princess to get her throat cut without the means to defend herself either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy Hill Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Viserys was probably overprotected when he was in Westeros, and after his escape doing intense regular training would have been difficult. Dany is a petite female who is not particularly coordinated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 29 minutes ago, Joy Hill said: Viserys was probably overprotected when he was in Westeros, and after his escape doing intense regular training would have been difficult. Dany is a petite female who is not particularly coordinated. There was no excuse for Viserys other than lazy. He was young and fit. Dany was just too young when Willem Darry died and lost their protector. Both of the Targaryens are athletic. Dany herself is quite the athlete. It's a rare rider who can stay on a dragon without a saddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandru Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Why wasn't Viserys trained? Add to the other good reasons, that Ser Willem was old and ill. I don't think the young boy's alleged "courage" or lack thereof had any relevance at all; courage is learned, not an innate characteristic, like white blonde hair. Viserys was plenty courageous for how he worked and scrounged to keep himself (a young boy) and his baby sister alive, without descending into becoming "smallfolk." He may have been The Beggar King, but he was still the King. Why wasn't Daenerys trained? Because women aren't trained to fight, not in Westeros and not among the Dothraki. Why would Dany need to "defend herself"? She has people who do that for her, just as she has her people who cook her food, clean her clothing, and bathe her. Jorah was embracing both the societal mores of his youth and his current environment in "failing" to train his Khaleesi. Besides, now that she has her three dragons, being able to wave a sword around looks a little irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoodedCrow Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Heirs without a spare were sometimes not put in harms way...Henry the VIII or his son, Edward. Girls were generally not trained. Heirs with moms like Cersei, may not be trained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I always wonder how Viserys especially would've turned out if he had someone like Barristan with him the whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here's Looking At You, Kid Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said: I always wonder how Viserys especially would've turned out if he had someone like Barristan with him the whole time. Willem Darry was a good man. I'm struggling to think of anyone who could have done better under the situation they were in. 5 hours ago, HoodedCrow said: Heirs without a spare were sometimes not put in harms way...Henry the VIII or his son, Edward. Girls were generally not trained. Heirs with moms like Cersei, may not be trained. Aerys was paranoid and the decision to keep Viserys away from training came from him. Willem would follow his command if he gave instructions to never risk Viserys. The Targaryens made many concessions to the ways of the Andal and their women hardly took up the sword after Visenya's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApostolinO Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 10:31 PM, Angel Eyes said: Not just then for Daenerys; I’m also talking about the events of the books, when Daenerys is wandering the Red Waste with her khalasar, then as she conquers Slaver’s Bay and deals with the fallout. Why didn’t Jorah teach her? Wouldn’t want khaleesi to get hurt, and if she’s sans dragon, she’d be in real trouble. 15 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: Not cool for the princess to get her throat cut without the means to defend herself either. The last thing you want, when you cross the Red Waste starving withouth any water, is wasting energy. I also doubt Daenerys would ever be able to defend herself against any cutthroat no matter how much she trained. She's a woman after all with no special characteristics (like Brienne, Osha or other warrior maids) Also, Viserys could have gotten some training but he probably was nothing special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemond's Eye Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 14 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said: There was no excuse for Viserys other than lazy. He was young and fit. Dany was just too young when Willem Darry died and lost their protector. Both of the Targaryens are athletic. Dany herself is quite the athlete. It's a rare rider who can stay on a dragon without a saddle. How about a lack of resources, people he could trust and the more pressing concern of keeping himself, and his sister, alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 7 hours ago, It'sAlwaysWinterInScotland said: How about a lack of resources, people he could trust and the more pressing concern of keeping himself, and his sister, alive? Which necessitates skill at arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandru Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 34 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: Which necessitates skill at arms. Well, that's what I like to call the "NRA Argument"**. Viserys did just fine at "keeping himself and his sister alive" without having to slaughter or rough up anyone, as far as we know. He used his tongue, lordly bearing and language, and his family name to beg food and shelter. Plus, they ran a lot. Even in Westeros/Essos, you don't have to kill your way to success. -------- ** National Rifle Association, for those readers not in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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