Do you think....

[Cas Stark]

43 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Why do you think so? I believe it is evident that the author waits for the show to finish before publishing the books.

Readers of the books will devour the books anyway.

Watchers of the show, however, would not want to know the end before.

Martin has enough time and phantasy as the publication of the two "history book" in the Westeros setting show. He just waits for the show to conclude. 

I don't even intend to read or buy Winds, and depending on just how unsatisfying the end we see on the show is, I may never buy or read either Winds or the final book or books, assuming of course, I live another 20 years, so not all readers are going to read the books at this point.  I doubt I am the only one who is gravely disappointed with how dark and meaningless things have become for the characters.  If I'm going to read hopeless nihilism, I like to know that up front, not find out 5 books in.

I find that Martin's inability to produce anything but a glorified fake dictionary is actually a really bad sign that he is no longer able to get the submersion into the story he needs or maintain it long enough to deal with the 66,000 plots he created.

And while I do now expect there is a good chance he will adjust the "end" of the story based on how the audience reacts to GOT in 3 months time, I simply don't believe he will ever finish the series, we will be lucky to get Winds of Winter in another year or two, and then, if as I expect, the progress of that book makes it clear he can't finish in another book, but needs 2, the odds are very strongly against completion.

[Kajjo]

10 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

the odds are very strongly against completion

Wow, you are pessimistic. I don't agree with that fatalism. My strong guess is that the two books will be published inside two years after the show ends.

12 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

who is gravely disappointed with how dark and meaningless things have become for the characters.  If I'm going to read hopeless nihilism, I like to know that up front

Where do you detect hopeless nihilism? The ice army can be beaten. All wights die if the White Walker dies who created them. And our heroes know this connection, it was demonstrated again in season 7 to make that clear. Who knows whether the White Walkers die if the Night King dies? There is hope to beat the army, but it will be an enormous battle. By the way, I don't like battles that much, I favor other aspects of GoT.

What do you feel has become darker for the characters? The medieval-like setting was dark and gruesome from the start, no character safe, unexpected turns were normality. Young girls forced to marry, being raped, very many murders, intrigues and so on. Neither GoT nor ASOIAF have started out "bright and shiny". This is a dark, cold, cruel world. From the beginning on. 

Why do you feel events might be meaningless for the characters? I don't see that at all. End of season 7 everyone took it as extremely important. They know about the dange from the North, they want to win the battlem, they a lot that is worth figthing for. Nothing about meaningless.

Everyone attentive reader knew from the start that the "Song of Ice and Fire" will culminate in destruction, in both sides annihilating each other. The common people will survive. The world will go on. Some of our characters wil continue to live. Some will not. Nothing unexpected at all.

 

[Cas Stark]

There isn't any actual evidence or reason, beyond wishful thinking, to believe that GRRM is writing the end of the story now, rather than simply trying to write Winds.

As far as the story itself, since I believe the show is following the lead of GRRM's ending, it looks pretty grim to me, as again, my personal view is that an ending where almost everyone is dead and the few that remain alive are sad, broken and impoverished isn't bittersweet, but bitter.

[Kajjo]

23 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

to believe that GRRM is writing the end of the story now

Maybe he already done so? Just waiting with the publication for the show to end?

24 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

it looks pretty grim to me,

Well, yes, bittersweet was to be expected from the beginning on and so it will be. 

24 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

where almost everyone is dead and the few that remain alive are sad, broken and impoverished

What make you think so? There will be survivors, the common people will recover like after all wars. Out of the main characters, several will survive and some will die. 

The arc of Jon and Daenerys, as well as Jamie and Cersei will end. Is that bad? No, expected and necessary.

[Cas Stark]

Just now, Kajjo said:

Maybe he already done so? Just waiting with the publication for the show to end?

Well, yes, bittersweet was to be expected from the beginning on and so it will be. 

What make you think so? There will be survivors, the common people will recover like after all wars. Out of the main characters, several will survive and some will die. 

The arc of Jon and Daenerys, as well as Jamie and Cersei will end. Is that bad? No, expected and necessary.

As for bitter and nihilistic, I think so because the show shows me so, the show has shown me again and again that random chance is more important to success than doing the right thing. 

Why would he wait?  It makes no sense.  Not only is he hugely criticized for failing to get the books out by now, but he takes money out of his own pocket by failing to get at least Winds out while the show is still running.

 

 

[Kajjo]

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

random chance is more important to success than doing the right thing

That's reality. 

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Why would he wait?  It makes no sense. 

As I explained, it makes a lot of sense. The show is the greatest show ever so far. Hundred of millions waiting for the end. Billions to earn. He cannot publish a book revealing the final before the show ends.

3 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

but he takes money out of his own pocket

I don't think so. The show earned him more money than the books. A lot more. He is not dependent on income anyway anymore. He is rich, old, and quite eccentric.

[TheCasualObserver]

6 hours ago, Kajjo said:

That's reality. 

I guess it's difficult to detect nihilism if you are a nihilist yourself!

 

But seriously, GOT has been giving the fans what they want quite a lot recently, so I'm guessing a return to form with the unexpected deaths and betrayals could get lots of people upset. Long running tv shows are almost impossible to end well anyway - look at what happened with LOST.

[Kajjo]

10 hours ago, TheCasualObserver said:

But seriously, GOT has been giving the fans what they want quite a lot recently

Hm, actually, I don't really think so. The more the story progressed, the easier it got to guess some issues. Not all fans wanted the same and what happened made a lot of sense from the perspective of the storyline. THis does not need to be pandering, it can just be how it is. I view it a bit like astrology predictions: Some always come true, even if it is completely nonsense. 

Yes, maybe the Hound was reactivated a bit more than can be expected from the books. Who knows, really? What kind of "fan pandering"do you have in mind? Can you give concrete examples?

10 hours ago, TheCasualObserver said:

look at what happened with LOST

I hated this religious stuff so much, I cannot even describe it. The show started so great, the story was so intriguing and then they mess it up with such a stupid nonsense ending. That was really, really disappointing.