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KiDisaster

MMA & Boxing 20: D.C. Stands For "Double Champ"

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How dumb is Askren though? He's been fighting MMA for how long and he never learned that dropping into an undisguised double leg without checking what your opponent even moves like first is a dumbass move?

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I think the sprint just surprised the hell out of Askren and he kinda panicked, and his wrestling instincts kicked in. Which is exactly what Jorge was counting on. Incredible.

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5 hours ago, polishgenius said:

How dumb is Askren though? He's been fighting MMA for how long and he never learned that dropping into an undisguised double leg without checking what your opponent even moves like first is a dumbass move?

It was unbelievable to see. He just ran straight into that knee, bent down, brought his head forward for maximum impact.

Honestly when I saw that move I just thought "that is the worst move possible by Askreen" and then I wondered how severe the damage would be of such an impact. An mma fighter sprinting towards him and kneeing him full on , on the head. Damn.

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I don't follow the fight game like I should, but I recently saw the highlight and I've got to say it was among the funniest things I've ever seen. Right up there with Tyson knocking a dude out with a single punch.

 

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Posted (edited)

Did all the fighters get together backstage and agree that nobody's tapping tonight what the hell? I've never seen so many people get choked out on one card before. And the stoppages are coming late too. 

 

God dammit Robbie please beat this piece of shit... 

ETA: My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. 

Here's hoping Usman gives him a taste of his own medicine I guess. 

Edited by KiDisaster

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Usman is our last hope. I expected Robbie to lose, but not so easily.

Also, that crowd reaction to the Trump idiots was definitely edited. 

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Why didn't Askren learn from his initial mauling by Robbie?  I believe he hadn't recovered from their fight, and neither had Robbie, because that was a serious war for the time it lasted.  The UFC is the place the supreme talent comes too, I believe Chickenbread's (Gamebred) I call him that because he is dodging Leon Edwards who he suckerpunched for saying "November" and Masvidal replied "maybe" and Edwrads said "Shut up".  Masvidal's attack reminds me of McNugget's attack on the bus against someone who he is scared of.

Anyway the flying knee was a fluke against Askren, he said it himself he expected the fight to last the distance, he claims his grappling defence would have been superior to Askren's grappling. Maybe.  If Askren has a serious problem with his striking defence, he's done as a contender, but all he needs to do is cover his takedown attacks with punches, that's it.  Covington with his inability to strike hard would mean Askren would beat Covington.  I'm hoping Askren learns as I like him alot, and he still has huge potential.

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45 minutes ago, Safiya said:

Why didn't Askren learn from his initial mauling by Robbie?

 


He hasn't learned about striking in all the MMA fights he's had so far, why would you expect him to start now? Likewise for this:

 

46 minutes ago, Safiya said:

If Askren has a serious problem with his striking defence, he's done as a contender, but all he needs to do is cover his takedown attacks with punches, that's it.

It's not as simple as that, and he hasn't bothered beginning to learn to do this in his 21 fights and ten years in the sport. He's at massive disadvantage against everyone in the top 10 of a division that's heavy with good grapplers and wrestlers who can strike and use their striking to facilitate their grappling.

 

Also: 

 

1 hour ago, Safiya said:

Anyway the flying knee was a fluke against Askren, he said it himself he expected the fight to last the distance, he claims his grappling defence would have been superior to Askren's grappling. Maybe. 


It isn't a fluke when he trained for it and did it in response to something Askren does in every fight (to whit, Askren's panic response is to duck awkwardly for a TD). Masvidal may have been prepared for it not to knock Askren out and to subsequently go the distance, which is a perfectly sensible thing to do, but it was in no way a fluke.

 

 

Anyway, in boxing news, two-time gold medalist, Cuban defectee and highly anticipated prospect Robeisy Ramirez lost shockingly on his pro debut.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, polishgenius said:


He hasn't learned about striking in all the MMA fights he's had so far, why would you expect him to start now? Likewise for this:

 

It's not as simple as that, and he hasn't bothered beginning to learn to do this in his 21 fights and ten years in the sport. He's at massive disadvantage against everyone in the top 10 of a division that's heavy with good grapplers and wrestlers who can strike and use their striking to facilitate their grappling.


 

He's been locked out of the UFC and fighting the very best talent by White for all that time, relegated to Bellator whose talent pool vastly is grade C at best, he hasn't needed to learn how to strike.  Askren is not at a massive disadvantage, what makes you think that haha, he's an Olympian, a world class wrestler, as we see with DC and Triple C Olympian wrestlers dominate.  Even Khabib with his rudimentary striking that consists of throwing heavy strikes was enough to allow him to close with McNugget.  I'd love to see the rest of the WWs grapple with Askren, Covington would be annihilated.

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It isn't a fluke when he trained for it and did it in response to something Askren does in every fight (to whit, Askren's panic response is to duck awkwardly for a TD). Masvidal may have been prepared for it not to knock Askren out and to subsequently go the distance, which is a perfectly sensible thing to do, but it was in no way a fluke.

Nah he wasn't panicking he was doing what he always does, goes for the takedown, all those at best grade B opponents and Masvidal's hilarious gangster act made Askren not take Masvidal seriousley, which was a BIG mistake.  Again Masvidal said it himself he expected the fight to go the distance, he knows it was a fluke, a rarity, once again he said it himself.  You really think most of their fights would end in a flying knee in the first few moments of the fight lol.  We would usually see that in 1 in 100 of their fights, we would usually see if Masvidal has got the takedown defence he claims he has.  Askren did not take the wake up call Robbie gave him, and Robbie and him fought again way too quickly.  But you apparently know better, better than Masvidal himself lol.

Edited by Safiya
At best he has fought grade B, Khabib on a side note has a record padded with grade D+E lol

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he hasn't needed to learn how to strike. 

Yeah, and as a result he hasn't.


 

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Askren is not at a massive disadvantage, what makes you think that haha, he's an Olympian, a world class wrestler, as we see with DC and Triple C Olympian wrestlers dominate. 

Both of them are vastly superior strikers to Askren (Cejudo in particular is a genuinely good one, although even if you wrongly think he beat Mighty Mouse you cannot possibly say he dominated) and DC is in two far weaker divisions. No matter how good a wrestler you are you cannot strike like Askren does, ie not at all, and do well. Especially since like I said the division is full of good wrestlers so he's not automatically going to just snack on guys if he can take them down. Even Covington I suspect, despite your claims, but even if Askren is superior on the ground he's not gonna find it that easy to take him down if Colby wants to stay and strike.

 

10 minutes ago, Safiya said:

Even Khabib with his rudimentary striking that consists of throwing heavy strikes was enough to allow him to close with McNugget. 

Khabib's striking is pretty ropey in so far as being just striking, but it's very well matched with his takedown game. And Khabib is far more explosive than Askren so he can do what in other fighters would be stupid things like launch sloppy TD attempts from halfway across the cage, and it's part of his game coz opponents are too scared to respond right. And even still, if he keeps at it at some point he'll meet a knee or something similar in his own right.

 

4 minutes ago, Safiya said:

Nah he wasn't panicking he was doing what he always does, goes for the takedown,

Whether it was panic or not doesn't really make any difference to what the problem was, which was as you said it: he was doing what he always does, going for the takedown. Badly.

 

20 minutes ago, Safiya said:

Askren is not at a massive disadvantage, what makes you think that haha

I've seen him fight and all the other guys fight. There isn't anyone in the top 10 he has a serious chance of beating with the possible exception of Darren Till or Ponzinibio if they get really sloppy and lazy about defending Askren's approaches, but more likely they just knock him out early.




 

 

11 minutes ago, Safiya said:

Again Masvidal said it himself he expected the fight to go the distance, he knows it was a fluke, a rarity, once again he said it himself.



Link me to where Masvidal said he knows it was a fluke. Coz I can link you to an article collecting quotes in which not only do Masvidal and his coach talk about how they prepared the knee and had it ready, but Askren himself specifically acknowledges that it wasn't a fluke. Again, being ready for it not to work -hell, even not necessarily expecting it to work 100% doesn't make it a fluke. It wasn't random chance.


And no, I don't think it would end in a flying knee KO within seconds in most of the times they fight but yeah, against not just Masvidal but most other strikers I think it will usually end early by KO if Askren keeps approaching fights like he has his entire career so far.

Oh, and also:
 

 

24 minutes ago, Safiya said:

all those grade B opponents and Masvidal's hilarious gangster act made Askren not take Msvidal seriousey, which was a BIG mistake. 

Entirely excuses. He did get sloppy, but as both himself in the article above and you said, it was because he hasn't had to deal with good strikers before, not Masvidal's act. And because it's so long-term and ingrained in his game, it's not gonna be half as easy as you seem to think it is to start integrating striking.

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 

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Yeah, and as a result he hasn't.

 

Hasn't needed too for the reasons I gave, he has the reason now.

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Both of them are vastly superior strikers to Askren (Cejudo in particular is a genuinely good one, although even if you wrongly think he beat Mighty Mouse you cannot possibly say he dominated) and DC is in two far weaker divisions. No matter how good a wrestler you are you cannot strike like Askren does, ie not at all, and do well. Especially since like I said the division is full of good wrestlers so he's not automatically going to just snack on guys if he can take them down. Even Covington I suspect, despite your claims, but even if Askren is superior on the ground he's not gonna find it that easy to take him down if Colby wants to stay and strike.

They wouldn't have been if they'd been forced to stay at Bellator, and also what about Khabib why are you leaving him out?  Oh you haven't.

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Khabib's striking is pretty ropey in so far as being just striking, but it's very well matched with his takedown game. And Khabib is far more explosive than Askren so he can do what in other fighters would be stupid things like launch sloppy TD attempts from halfway across the cage, and it's part of his game coz opponents are too scared to respond right. And even still, if he keeps at it at some point he'll meet a knee or something similar in his own right.

Maybe but it's working and the knee or uppercut KO will be a fluke usually it will hurt the person and we will have someone stunned and then we see what happens from there, Askren is in the same situation as Khabib just needs enough striking to allow him to get close.   If Askren gets his hands on near anyone especially someone like Covington who isn't even a state champion wrestler what happened to Lawler is how it goes down.  I'm not even saying he needs to be a particularly good striker he needs to throw strikes to cover his takedown attacks that's the sum total of what I said, he's not a Rousey with only one type of takedown, he's an Olympian, that's way beyond Covington and I suspect beyond Masvidal's grappling ability.

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And no, I don't think it would end in a flying knee KO within seconds in most of the times they fight but yeah, against not just Masvidal but most other strikers I think it will usually end early by KO if Askren keeps approaching fights like he has his entire career so far.

Askren makes it very hard for himself, and he's forgetting this is mixed martial arts.  He opens himself up to being KOd if he doesn't punch, does it usually end early in a KO, nah it usually ends Askren winning by submission, but at the UFC level the beatings Askren takes getting to his opponent means he has a short career.

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Link me to where Masvidal said he knows it was a fluke. Coz I can link you to an article collecting quotes in which not only do Masvidal and his coach talk about how they prepared the knee and had it ready, but Askren himself specifically acknowledges that it wasn't a fluke. Again, being ready for it not to work -hell, even not necessarily expecting it to work 100% doesn't make it a fluke. It wasn't random chance.

Guess what, that was Askren replying to what I said though it could be someone else but Joe Rogan and his guests reply to my comments so it might be mine but others certainly said the same thing.  Askren was being humble, I call it a fluke because of the first Velasquenz v Dos Santos fight.  Masvidal prepared for many things, the flying knee against the takedown is standard, it doesn't usually work as well as that, it mostly stuns your opponent, as any power strike does. It is exactly like Dos Santos knocking Velasquenz with an uppercut in the first moments of their first fight a striker against a wrestler, same situation same fluke, usually an uppercut will stun an opponent.  What happens in 90% of V v DS fights is what happened in the rematch, Velasquenz out wrestles Dos Santos, and in his case pins him against the cage and crushes him with elbows, punches and knees.  I don't know if Masvidal could do enough damage normally to Askren before Askren gets his hands on him.  That's the real question.  But also Masvidal if he has excellent grappling could mean getting away from a world class grappler enough or surviving to the end of a round  allowing them to damage them between the takedowns.  Masvidal could have that, but I suspect he doesn't.

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Entirely excuses. He did get sloppy, but as both himself in the article above and you said, it was because he hasn't had to deal with good strikers before, not Masvidal's act.

Come on Askren thinks he's intellectually superior to Masvidal because of Masvidal's gangster act, Masvidal hasn't grown up, how he assaulted Leon Edwards is proof he hasn't. 

Edwards:  "November?"

Masvidal: "Maybe"

Edwards:  "Shutup"

Hours later Masvidal goes up to Edwards and punches him repeatedly in the face lol.  Askren must have thought what a complete tool.  He definitely took Masvidal way too lightly.  Anyway Askren is fighting again, if he doesn't throw strikes to cover his takedown attack he is a complete fool lol.  He thinks it opens him up to being takendown that's why he doesn't throw strikes.

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I've seen him fight and all the other guys fight. There isn't anyone in the top 10 he has a serious chance of beating with the possible exception of Darren Till or Ponzinibio if they get really sloppy and lazy about defending Askren's approaches, but more likely they just knock him out early.

I've seen Askren throw punches in Belator, so you haven't seen many of his fights.  And also he beat Lawler please don't tell me you think he couldn't submit Lawler lol and near any WW if he has his hands locked around their jaw and is squeezing and cranking their head back lol.

Edited by Safiya
Ben Askren sunmits Lawler

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3 hours ago, Safiya said:

I believe Chickenbread's (Gamebred) I call him that because he is dodging Leon Edwards who he suckerpunched for saying "November" and Masvidal replied "maybe" and Edwrads said "Shut up".  Masvidal's attack reminds me of McNugget's attack on the bus against someone who he is scared of.

Give me a break. The only thing Jorge was afraid of was being punked on camera. Guy is minding his business doing an interview after his biggest win and Edwards walks by with his crew and tries to make Masvidal look foolish. I’m not saying I 100% agree with what happened, but some guys you just can’t talk shit to. 

Conor’s attack on the bus was nothing like this. 

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35 minutes ago, Safiya said:

And also he beat Lawler please don't tell me you think he couldn't submit Lawler lol and near any WW if he has his hands locked around their jaw and is squeezing and cranking their head back lol.

Whether or not he would have submitted Lawler eventually we both know that submission was utter bullshit.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Safiya said:

I'm not even saying he needs to be a particularly good striker he needs to throw strikes to cover his takedown attacks that's the sum total of what I said,



But it's not that easy. Even to get to where Khabib is took time, practice and training. And Askren is old, it's hard for an old dog to learn new tricks like that, especially to integrate them into his game so that they stick when under pressure.

 

43 minutes ago, Safiya said:

Masvidal prepared for many things, the flying knee against the takedown is standard, it doesn't usually work as well as that, it mostly stuns your opponent, as any power strike does.

 

What you appear to essentially be saying here is that every knockout ever is a fluke, because most times when the specific knockout strike is thrown it doesn't necessarily knock out the opponent.

 

 

The rest of what you said, apart from again making the baseless claim that Askren took Masvidal specifically lightly rather than it being a flaw in all his fights, is basically you agreeing with me but going 'no no but he'll win anyway or he'll lean and then win'. I know that he hasn't learned to do it because he hasn't needed to. That isn't a good thing for him. Just because he didn't need it doesn't mean he couldn't and now he's in a position where he's making up lost ground very late. You are allowed to, and really should, practice things that you don't need now in case you need them later. Askren didn't. Now he's in trouble because of it. 

 

He might beat Maia although Maia is also orders better than him on the feet and there's a reason that the last three wrestlers Maia has faced have avoided the mat with him desperately.


It's like with Woodley. If you watch his fight against Usman and listen to the corner it's pretty clear that they'd talked about and practiced being more aggressive to keep off the cage against Usman's grinding power and pocket boxing, but under pressure he couldn't execute that because he hadn't time to internalise it and under pressure he defaulted to what he's always done, which is back into the fence and try to explode from there with a big left hand.

And Woodley is far better prepared for this level than Askren is.

 

(also I don't know a great deal about wrestling personally but several people I know who do don't think Askren is necessarily a better wrestler than the other three guys at all, especially in an MMA context. Being an Olympian is a great achievement but it doesn't necessarily figure that ten years later in a different sport where fighters are going to be more prepared for his oddball style and are allowed to strike to counter it, he's still going to be superior, and it's not as if any of them were rubes at wrestling themselves). 

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4 hours ago, polishgenius said:
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Whether or not he would have submitted Lawler eventually we both know that submission was utter bullshit.

Yeah an Olympian wrestler, someone who wrestled at the Olympics, not an Olympic wrestler someone who had trials can call themselves, has someone locked in a submission and is crushing their jaw and cranking their neck back, the ref lift the guy's arm and it drops like a stone.  Game over.  That thumbs up claim is hilarious, put your hand on a table in various positions it is in a thumbs up position lol.  If the hand is weak it might not be.
 

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But it's not that easy. Even to get to where Khabib is took time, practice and training. And Askren is old, it's hard for an old dog to learn new tricks like that, especially to integrate them into his game so that they stick when under pressure.

As I said you haven't seen Askren fight that much he usually set his takedowns up with a leg kick and few punches, that needed to be increased not made non existent.

 

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What you appear to essentially be saying here is that every knockout ever is a fluke, because most times when the specific knockout strike is thrown it doesn't necessarily knock out the opponent.

Please lol, I said in the first few seconds of a fight and one shot, those are flukes, the very defintion of a fluke again Velasquenz v Dos Santos near carbon copy of the Askren v Dos Santos fight, answer how it isn't in the essentials please not this silly obfuscating.  Once again 99% of time the power shot stuns and sets up the follow up, it's why a few extra shots is justified to a downed opponent, side note I don't know how many Masvidal did extra but it was excessive everyone I've spoken to agrees, it's why Askren should not have taken him lightly.

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The rest of what you said, apart from again making the baseless claim that Askren took Masvidal specifically lightly rather than it being a flaw in all his fights, is basically you agreeing with me but going 'no no but he'll win anyway or he'll lean and then win'. I know that he hasn't learned to do it because he hasn't needed to. That isn't a good thing for him. Just because he didn't need it doesn't mean he couldn't and now he's in a position where he's making up lost ground very late. You are allowed to, and really should, practice things that you don't need now in case you need them later. Askren didn't. Now he's in trouble because of it. 

It's not baseless at all, Masvidal is a clownish character, ducking Edwards is proof of this, who on this planet acts like Masvidal does punching a guy for 'disrespecting' him and then wont fight him LMAO.

 

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It's like with Woodley. If you watch his fight against Usman and listen to the corner it's pretty clear that they'd talked about and practiced being more aggressive to keep off the cage against Usman's grinding power and pocket boxing, but under pressure he couldn't execute that because he hadn't time to internalise it and under pressure he defaulted to what he's always done, which is back into the fence and try to explode from there with a big left hand.

Woodley was jaded from so many title defences, it happens to many champions, Aldo being a prime example.  GSP was going that way which is why he left but I hope he comes back again and fights Khabib.  I consider GSP to be a genius and GOAT.

 

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(also I don't know a great deal about wrestling personally but several people I know who do don't think Askren is necessarily a better wrestler than the other three guys at all, especially in an MMA context. Being an Olympian is a great achievement but it doesn't necessarily figure that ten years later in a different sport where fighters are going to be more prepared for his oddball style and are allowed to strike to counter it, he's still going to be superior, and it's not as if any of them were rubes at wrestling themselves). 

I think the people you're talking too are being silly, Askren has been fighting in MMA for years, his problem is he's been frozen out of fighting grade A fighters by White.  Go watch Askren's fights he used strikes in Bellator to close with his opponents he needed to increase their use, not stop using them.  First thing he needs to do is throw strikes automatically, a leg kick and arms protecting his head as per the old Bellator days but he'll need to throw alot more to close with the grade A fighters of the UFC.

 

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5 hours ago, Ramsay B. said:

Give me a break. The only thing Jorge was afraid of was being punked on camera. Guy is minding his business doing an interview after his biggest win and Edwards walks by with his crew and tries to make Masvidal look foolish. I’m not saying I 100% agree with what happened, but some guys you just can’t talk shit to. 

Conor’s attack on the bus was nothing like this. 

Who does Masvidal think he is saying maybe to someone who is very likely going to fight very soon?  Someone close to the same ranking offers to fight you say yes, it was Masvidal being disrespectful someone offered to fight him and he chickened out.  Masvidal thinks he's something special, his record says otherwise.  As many lost decisions as won decision btw.  I thought Edwards had said something bad not "shutup".  Masvidal is scared, punching Edwards out of the blue always leads to a fight, unless they're a chicken and fake that is lol.

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Posted (edited)

So happy for Stipe, he's clearly the HW Goat, beaten everyone placed in front of him, the first fight was a fluke KO it just doesn't normally go down like that.  Next up Jones growing some balls and going to HW for a Superfight.  Though Jones still has to prove he's the GOAT LHW imo, everything before the Thiago fight is tainted with Pico, so he could just go and prove he's the LHW GOAT with a fight with Cormier that has some appeal, but I'd really like to see clean Jones v Stipe, that's what I really want.

Edited by Safiya
Stuff

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