Dolorous Gabe Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 47 minutes ago, baxusalah said: This, and the fact that I haven't seen a single player booked for diving. I admit I haven't seen all the matches, but I have seen some diving that went on unpunished and I have seen some penalties that weren't given. Wasn't the point of VAR to help with such situations? Stop the play, review the footage and award the penalty or give a card. I really hate diving and was really hopeful VAR would fight it a lot more than it does at the moment. I don't disagree but I like VAR and believe this tournament to be a step in the right direction. And whilst it feels a heck of a lot more satisfying to see a diver receive a yellow card, in terms of deterrence of diving VAR theoretically has a similar effect as yellow cards, since it can be checked. I'm not saying they shouldn't receive a yellow for it but I can see why it might be deemed unnecessary with VAR in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 13 hours ago, Tijgy said: Talent? Yes. Maturity? No Oh please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Davrum said: It's funny you say the club stuff is what matters given how many players and former players have been saying over the course of the tournament that for them nothing tops/topped representing their nation. The country/corporate divide always fascinates me when it comes to the fan viewpoint. ETA: The commentator's viewpoint too. It always seems like a waste to me when a World Cup commentator mentions a player's employer instead of something which means something so much more to them as they carry out the highest honour in the sport. "Now here's Paul Pogba who grew up in the commune of Lagny-sur-Marne in the eastern suburbs of Paris" is waaaaaaay more evocative - not to mention accurate - than "Now here's Paul Pogba from Manchester United." I've always cared more about the big nation tournaments, mainly the World Cup and the Euro Champ. That being said, I would also like to follow the UCL, and even the Europa League, and maybe the Premier League, but because I live in the US, that is damn difficult to do on a weekly basis. With the World Cup, I devoted time and effort to being able to 1) record the games (or watch replays on an app) 2) not get spoiled 3) and actually sit down in the evenings and watch as much as I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 5 hours ago, La Albearceleste said: Say what you lie about Mbappe but surely now he's a stick-on for player of the tournament. He'd have to moon the crowd in the final to lose it. Lie? He got two yellow cards: one during Uruguay-France and one during Belgium-France for those antics. That is one more than Neymar got. If you have so much talent, you should not act that way. Without those antics they still would have won from the 's because in the end they were better during this game than the 's. And it is actually beter that his behaviour is now criticized so he can change it than becoming later a laughing stock like Neymar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Dolorous Gabe said: I don't disagree but I like VAR and believe this tournament to be a step in the right direction. And whilst it feels a heck of a lot more satisfying to see a diver receive a yellow card, in terms of deterrence of diving VAR theoretically has a similar effect as yellow cards, since it can be checked. I'm not saying they shouldn't receive a yellow for it but I can see why it might be deemed unnecessary with VAR in place. Diving is a pet peeve of mine. I would love to see game stopped every time a player falls down in a box, claims he was fouled and asks for a penalty kick, have the ref review the situation and either award a penalty if player's claim is true or book him for diving if it's not. That is now finally possible with VAR and there's no reason it shouldn't be used for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 20 minutes ago, baxusalah said: Diving is a pet peeve of mine. I would love to see game stopped every time a player falls down in a box, claims he was fouled and asks for a penalty kick, have the ref review the situation and either award a penalty if player's claim is true or book him for diving if it's not. That is now finally possible with VAR and there's no reason it shouldn't be used for that. There are also grey areas as in, there was some contact (likesay when the attacker was outmuscled by the defender) but not enough for a penalty. So not a dive, but not a penalty either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, Notone said: There are also grey areas as in, there was some contact (likesay when the attacker was outmuscled by the defender) but not enough for a penalty. So not a dive, but not a penalty either. And in fact, that sort of thing happens quite a lot. You cannot give out yellow cards in the way Baxus is describing, it would make soccer unplayable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 If a player takes a dive and the ref awards a penalty, this is where VAR should come in. I'd prefer there to be retrospective punishment for diving/play-acting anywhere on the pitch rather than the game being stopped every single time the attacker goes down in the box. The sanctions need to be severe though and not a slap on the wrist i.e. 3-5 match bans + a fine of 2-3 weeks wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 7 hours ago, La Albearceleste said: Say what you lie about Mbappe but surely now he's a stick-on for player of the tournament. He'd have to moon the crowd in the final to lose it.. Really? I mean he was brilliant vs Argentina and had some moments of magic yesterday but Kante has been Frances most important player bar none. Mbappe will prob get it if France win cause of his flashier role I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Modric will get player of the tournament if Croatia win today. Even if they lose, but win 3rd place, he would still likely get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Pogba is pretty close to Kante as well. His defensive work has been great - not as great as Kante's but then again Kante does not compare to Pogba's linking of the midfield and attack, key passes and chance creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mme Erzulie Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 The thing with the diving is it works. If it didn't, players wouldn't be doing it. There's been a few instances of players staying on their feet when there's contact in the penalty area (Hazard springs to mind), and if they don't go down, they get nothing. So players are effectively punished for not diving by referees who will not award a penalty kick for the exact same offence if the player stays on his feet. I don't think there's a clear front runner for Golden Ball. No player has been consistently outstanding. Mbappe seems to be coming into his best form towards the end of the tournament, though, which obviously helps. Lloris has also been great, as has Pickford, and the English centre back pairing have also been impressive (and contributed with goals), although you could argue they haven't faced the sternest tests yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 10 hours ago, Tijgy said: Acting in that way isn't mature. And it isn't the first match he is acting like that. He also acted in a similar way during Uruguay. Well, you could make an argument that acting like that is a bit childish, but even if one accepts that, Prince Consigliere was clearly talking about game maturity and the ability to keep his cool and not crack under pressure, and nothing about him chucking the ball away suggests he lacks that. The opposite, if anything - again, he got exactly the reaction he wanted out of Witsel, who was definitely the one showing a lack of maturity in that situation. He does dive very theatrically when he does (though in his defence it isn't really that often), but that isn't really a maturity thing either. 1 hour ago, Prince Onyinye W. Ndidi said: Pogba is pretty close to Kante as well. His defensive work has been great - not as great as Kante's but then again Kante does not compare to Pogba's linking of the midfield and attack, key passes and chance creation. Yeah, at the moment I'm leaning Pogba. He's been good in every game and getting better as the tournament goes on, and he's been a fair old part of Mbappe's success too because if Pogba wasn't in the team because without him linking in the middle the out-ball to Mbappe would probably take significantly longer to find. Modric was great in the group stages but he's done fuck all in the knockouts. But Mbappe will win the golden ball because it will suit FIFA's PR purposes that he should do so. Honorary mention to Keiran Trippier, probably the most consistently creative player in the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 The Golden Ball should reward consistent quality of individual performance. I think a midfielder or a defender should get it because the forwards have been too inconsistent. A big performance from Mbappe in the final would make him the obvious choice though. I have to agree that Pogba should be amongst the frontrunners along with Trippier and Varane, maybe Pavard too. Modric could be back in contention with a great game tonight, whilst Stones could deserve consideration with one or (hopefully) two more great performances. Mind you, two big performances from Kane could swing it his way. To think that he hasn't even shown anything near what he is capable of in open play yet despite his goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, Fellaining Da Bruyne said: Well, you could make an argument that acting like that is a bit childish, but even if one accepts that, Prince Consigliere was clearly talking about game maturity and the ability to keep his cool and not crack under pressure, and nothing about him chucking the ball away suggests he lacks that. The opposite, if anything - again, he got exactly the reaction he wanted out of Witsel, who was definitely the one showing a lack of maturity in that situation. IMO he was reacting to the fact that Toby and Mertens were able to win the ball from him. The only one who showed maturity was Kompany. And I actually think he isn't tested yet in the similar way during the WC? You also need to show that maturity during you are 0-2 under. And for me, calling him immature was actually an euphemism of another word. I think Mbappe himself is not that dangerous, but rather the threat of him. Every team who goes against France, knows that France plays very defensive but they can attack very fast. So you do need first a way to neutralize him (which Belgium in the end almost did) but then you also need a way to get behind their lines (which Belgium failed to do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Mbappe will win player of the tournament because defenders, goalkeepers, and midfielders who do an essential tactical role linking up the play never win player of the tournament awards. Players who score goals, terrorise defences and produce good TV moments win it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 53 minutes ago, Fellaining Da Bruyne said: Well, you could make an argument that acting like that is a bit childish, but even if one accepts that, Prince Consigliere was clearly talking about game maturity and the ability to keep his cool and not crack under pressure, and nothing about him chucking the ball away suggests he lacks that. Yeah, exactly this. Mbappe plays with the sort of composure that one would expect from a much more experienced pro. Add to that he's the second most expensive transfer in history and that comes with pressure and scrutiny. A €180m price tag can be a burden even for a seasoned campaigner let alone a 19 year old kid but Mbappe just takes it in his stride and has only gotten better. I think in a few years we might even be saying that the transfer fee was very good business just like the £80m for Ronaldo - a huge fee at the time - would be considered a bargain now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disturber of Peace Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Its coming home. Its coming home. They say its coming home. But i remember. 3-2 at Wembley. Gazza still crying. Southgate missing a pen. When Iceland was clapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davrum Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 Croatia look spent already. Look in Modric's eyes. He has nothing left. It's coming home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, Disturber of Peace said: Its coming home. Its coming home. They say its coming home. But i remember. 3-2 at Wembley. Gazza still crying. Southgate missing a pen. When Iceland was clapping. That doesn't even rhyme. Anyway, I want England to win, but also I hate most England fans so if they lose its ok as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.