The Lord of the Crossing Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Imagine yourself in Lord Walder's shoes. Robb just betrayed you. Now he reaches out and wants your help again. Tywin also reach out and offers you a chance to reconcile with the king. Do you proceed with the red wedding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I’d simply refuse Robb, declare my allegiance to the King, and communicate with Tywin on where to join up with the royal forces to attack Robb in the field. No tricks, no deception, I’d take the battle to Robb and defeat him in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 52 minutes ago, The Lord of the Crossing said: Imagine yourself in Lord Walder's shoes. Robb just betrayed you. Now he reaches out and wants your help again. Tywin also reach out and offers you a chance to reconcile with the king. Do you proceed with the red wedding? Of course you do, you are Walder Frey. That is what he did in he books. Why is this even a question? Oh right, nearly a decade between books.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, The Lord of the Crossing said: Imagine yourself in Lord Walder's shoes. Robb just betrayed you. Now he reaches out and wants your help again. Tywin also reach out and offers you a chance to reconcile with the king. Do you proceed with the red wedding? Well pragmatically I'd choose to reject Robb and hope that was enough for the Crown. But then I don't know what it feels like to have my oldest son die for a broken promise, or have hundreds of my men killed over a lie. Walder's choice was not based on logic or reason, it was based on emotion. In many ways it is the same with Robb, the logical choice would have been to sue for peace after the Blackwater, like his mother suggested, but emotionally he could not as they killed his father. A lot of the decisions in the books are characters making emotional calls. What I will say, what seems to be the biggest reason why Walder fucked up is that the Starks seem to be magically blessed, Cat and Jon coming back from the dead, Bran being a treegod, Arya a changeling super assassin or even Sansa being almost in control of an entire realm means that Walder could never have predicted the consequences of his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Mormont Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said: Now he reaches out and wants your help again. Maybe I am forgetting something, but when did Robb reach out to Frey for help immediately preceding the Red Wedding? Walder sent his sons to treat with Robb at Riverrun, which was a set up. Walder would have been upset at Robb for breaking his promise, but he would have never orchestrated the Red Wedding without Tywin's suggestion and Roose's involvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Chris Mormont said: Maybe I am forgetting something, but when did Robb reach out to Frey for help immediately preceding the Red Wedding? Walder sent his sons to treat with Robb at Riverrun, which was a set up. Robb was tying to appease the Freys immediately with offers of marriages to some of his nobles and it was Robb who was sending the offer of Edmure to the Freys. "What hope . . ." Robb let out a breath, pushed his hair back from his eyes, and said, "We've had naught from Ser Rodrik in the north, no response from Walder Frey to our new offer, only silence from the Eyrie." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandru Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Chris Mormont said: Maybe I am forgetting something, but when did Robb reach out to Frey for help immediately preceding the Red Wedding? He wanted to cross the Trident again. This put Robb firmly into old Walder's clutches - along with basically the entire army of the North. Also Edmure, Heir to Riverrun. If Walder Frey had been me, (1) he wouldn't have hundreds of children, legitimate and natural. (2) he wouldn't be a selfish, treacherous old bitch, (3) tolls to cross his da**ed bridge would be fair and reasonable, and he would take pride in HIS NEUTRALITY. Plus, (4) he'd get some of his extra children to building additional bridge crossings at key spots in order to facilitate trade and communication, and to farm out excess sons and daughters, instead of hosting a "Lord of the Flies" scenario in his own castle. That would have been a radically different story, however! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Robb would be oberyned by Hosteen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Gogh Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Walder's choice served the better interest of his family. He would not be the only lord who would make the same choice if he was between Robb and Tywin. He had to choose which man to serve. Robb had already proven the worth of a Stark's oath. It's worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 On 7/9/2018 at 9:49 PM, zandru said: If Walder Frey had been me, (1) he wouldn't have hundreds of children, legitimate and natural. The problem wasn't so much that he had so many children (and obviously it is nowhere near hundreds), it was how damn healthy he and they are. Walder is ancient by Westerosi standards, he has at at least two grandsons in their 50's, and yet before the books started he had only lost one son. When we are first introduced to Walder, in the Mystery knight, we know the current Lord of the North was Beron and none of his heirs were adults, all those sons died long ago, his grandson dead, his great grandson dead and while his great great grandson was still alive at the start of the series two of Ned's siblings were dead. Walder Frey having so many children is not really a problem, had all his children followed his lead then it may have but only one his offspring have more than four kids, but given he can easily support them then it's no issue. On 7/9/2018 at 9:49 PM, zandru said: (2) he wouldn't be a selfish, treacherous old bitch, He's not really selfish, he is more than generous with his family and Roose boasts about the dowry he received. I don't recall any character in the series accusing him of such. Before the Red Wedding he is not really treacherous, he plays no part in civil wars were he has oaths to both sides. Hoster is actually the more treacherous lord in Robert's Rebellion than the late Lord Frey. On 7/9/2018 at 9:49 PM, zandru said: (3) tolls to cross his da**ed bridge would be fair and reasonable, they clearly are, where do you get the idea they are not? the are other routes other than his bridge, there are even other ways to cross the river. Walder would not get so much traffic in peacetime from merchants crossing his bridge if they did not consider the price reasonable. On 7/9/2018 at 9:49 PM, zandru said: (4) he'd get some of his extra children to building additional bridge crossings at key spots in order to facilitate trade and communication, why would he put his children to do that? That is not a noble's responsibility, there would be hired people to do that. Considering the wealth of House frey how do you know Walder has not been active in facilitating trade and communications? And given how expensive medieval bridges were to build and maintain why are you sure it was in House Frey's best interests to build another one? On 7/9/2018 at 9:49 PM, zandru said: and to farm out excess sons and daughters, instead of hosting a "Lord of the Flies" scenario in his own castle. Two things, firstly there is not a 'lord of flies scenario' at the Twins. Merrett is worried about the future without his father now that his brother Stevron is also dead. The next Lord of the Twins is going to be a nephew or great nephew with little obligation to keep Merrett around as Merrett has wasted the 20 years since he was a squire with Jaime doing nothing but drinking and partying on his father's dime. The majority of Walder's brood have not been that wasteful with their lives, most are knights and even Lame Lothar acts as the Steward of the Twins. Merrett is worried for good reason, he's useless. Secondly some of his children have been 'shipped out'. Emmon and his sons and grandsons reside at Casterly Rock, Geremy's two children are the Wards of Lady Waynwood, other daughters are married out to the likes of Lord Vpren or the current heir of House Brax, Flement, there are a number of squires and pages such as Wendel with the Mallisters, there are a few maesters or members of the citadel, there are a couple promised to the Faith and one son, Luceon, who was almost made the High Sparrow in AFFC. There is even a Frey studying alchemy in Lys and a Frey ward of a Braavosi merchant named Oro Tendyris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandru Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Bernie Mac said: The problem wasn't While I dispute many of your interpretations, it's clear you're a big Walder fan and like the way the Freys do business. Can't change that, so I won't even try. Moreover, I hate Charlie Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, zandru said: While I dispute many of your interpretations, it's clear you're a big Walder fan and like the way the Freys do business. Can't change that, so I won't even try. Moreover, I hate Charlie Brown. what does opinion have to do with it? when I replied to you it was not to change your opinion, but to point out that you were mistaken about a few things. If you think I am wrong about anything I am more than happy to hear why and will happily explain why I said what I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Bernie Mac said: what does opinion have to do with it? when I replied to you it was not to change your opinion, but to point out that you were mistaken about a few things. If you think I am wrong about anything I am more than happy to hear why and will happily explain why I said what I did. Silence; clearly you didn't agree with negative assertions put on a charachter whose very unpopular in the fandom thus you are a big fan of said charachter making anything you say invalid about said charachter. Jk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Silence; clearly you didn't agree with negative assertions put on a charachter whose very unpopular in the fandom thus you are a big fan of said charachter making anything you say invalid about said charachter. Jk. Contrary to popular belief I have no problem with people hating Walder Frey, but I'd prefer they do it for valid reasons or the shit he actually did do without the need to invent new crimes that he has not actually done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunland Lord Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I'd do the fictional world a solid. A solid for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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