Primetime Emmy Awards 2018

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, Risto said:

Really? I always thought Sunday night is a dud-time for shows due to some sports being on? I always thought it was football.

NFL is on Sunday and Monday nights.

[Mark Antony]

Been waiting for Rhys to win for years so well done emmys

[Corvinus85]

Oh, FFS! Seriously.

[Mladen]

1. So, Drama categories were amazing up until the main one. The Americans winning writing and Rhys winning Best Actor was superb.

2. Great surprise. Foy deserved the award and I was so happy for her. It was another great surprise.

3. GoT, meh. At this moment, it is uninspiring choice.

4. THT got hammered across the board. Vote-splitting and swan song narratives always work.

5. Yay for The Marvelous Mrs Maisel.

6. I am sorry for Michelle Dockery. I found her work in Godless superb. She deserved a win next to Weaver and Bridges.

[Hodor the Articulate]

Those wins for Rhys and The Americans were waaaay overdue. It's a crime that Keri Russell never got a single Emmy for the show.

[HexMachina]

5 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

I was hoping that Keri Russell would also be recognized for her amazing performance, but I heard great things about Claire Foy, so I’m not too disappointed.

 

2 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Those wins for Rhys and The Americans were waaaay overdue. It's a crime that Keri Russell never got a single Emmy for the show.

Very happy for The Americans wins. Massive shame for Russell but that category was insane this year. Got was excellent in The Crown and any of those ladies were worthy winners.

Very happy to see Mrs Maisel's success, another deserved win, and I mean all of them - Borstein, Broshanan and Sherman-Palladino.

Glad Thandie won for Westworld, sad none of the men did but Rhys deserved his long awaited award.  

Dinklage...meh. Never liked his acting so that's disappointing. NCW, David Harbour or Matt Smith were better picks.

Thrones winning best drama is absurd in light of its competitors

Yay Godless!

[Martini Sigil]

Rarely do I see someone win an award like this and think that they didn't deserve it... the frustration from fandom is that there are always others who deserved it, too... and there's only one award in each category to give, so many of our favorite performers are bound to be sitffed... personally, I don't understand how JK Simmons (Counterpart) wasn't even nominated (did they miss the deadline?) ... but at the end of the day, can anyone really complain about Mathew Rhys ?... I think not.

As is the nature of subjectivity... "Best" doesn;t really exist

[Dragon in the North]

It’s been a while since we’ve had an Emmys where one show didn’t dominate the drama category. Anyway, I’m so happy for The Americans and Game of Thrones for their awards, and Thandie Newton as well. They were all very well deserved!

[Bronn Stone]

On 9/17/2018 at 10:32 PM, Hodor the Articulate said:

Those wins for Rhys and The Americans were waaaay overdue. It's a crime that Keri Russell never got a single Emmy for the show.

It's gotta be tough on Rhys knowing almost for certain he was the second best lead performer on his show.  But as others point out, her category was stacked.

[Mark Antony]

21 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

It's gotta be tough on Rhys knowing almost for certain he was the second best lead performer on his show. .

Very debatable I prefer Rhys performance. 

[Mladen]

11 hours ago, Martini Sigil said:

but at the end of the day, can anyone really complain about Mathew Rhys ?... I think not.

He was my personal favorite and he demonstrated exceptional depth in playing Phillip. He was able to capture multifaceted nature of his character and even add layers to it. It became one of the most complex roles on TV and rightfully, it was awarded.

5 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

It’s been a while since we’ve had an Emmys where one show didn’t dominate the drama category. Anyway, I’m so happy for The Americans and Game of Thrones for their awards, and Thandie Newton as well. They were all very well deserved!

I said this on another site and I have to repeat here. Thrones lost the passion vote. It wasn't the most nominated TV show, it lost Writing and Directing, two main leads were rightfully out of competition and Lena Headey, once again, could not have made people to vote for her (and next year, in her category will be Strahovski with much stronger material (season 2 finale alone is enough) and Helena Bonham Carter in the role of Margaret. That say, this was perhaps her last chance.) Dinklage is a regular name-check so this feels like people have reached a conclusion in which they will award it but not really. Even the reaction was "meh, been there, done that". Season 7 wasn't better than previous seasons, it did not inspire people and basically, drama went sideways. And honestly, with so beautifully scripted dramas such as The Americans or The Crown, who can blame people for wanting something other than "dragons".

4 hours ago, Bronn Stone said:

It's gotta be tough on Rhys knowing almost for certain he was the second best lead performer on his show.  But as others point out, her category was stacked.

I wouldn't say that. Rhys played masterfully his character and I would give him a slight edge over Russell any given day. Russell certainly had much tougher job with Foy also having the swan song narrative and Moss being so exceptional. Even women who weren't in conversation to win like Sandra Oh or Tatiana Maslany did wonders in their respective shows. 

Rhys, on the other hand, is relatively unknown face competing with much more famous actors. "This is Us" two leads really got huge support and most people believed it would be tough for Rhys to win over Brown. 

Nonetheless, it was a great show. I do hope SAG and Golden Globes will also give it a proper farewell. 

[Dragon in the North]

12 minutes ago, Risto said:

I said this on another site and I have to repeat here. Thrones lost the passion vote. It wasn't the most nominated TV show, it lost Writing and Directing, two main leads were rightfully out of competition and Lena Headey, once again, could not have made people to vote for her (and next year, in her category will be Strahovski with much stronger material (season 2 finale alone is enough) and Helena Bonham Carter in the role of Margaret. That say, this was perhaps her last chance.) Dinklage is a regular name-check so this feels like people have reached a conclusion in which they will award it but not really. Even the reaction was "meh, been there, done that". Season 7 wasn't better than previous seasons, it did not inspire people and basically, drama went sideways. And honestly, with so beautifully scripted dramas such as The Americans or The Crown, who can blame people for wanting something other than "dragons".

I disagree. GOT was the best show I watched in 2017 and continues to be my favorite show of all time. I’m not sure how you can judge the Emmy voters passion. We didn’t hear their thought process behind their decision, we just know that they voted GOT as best drama. And the reactions I saw were those of excitement. I recognize this line of thinking and am going to guess the other site you are referring to is Watchers on the Wall, in which case, you saw the excitement too. I know I was excited, anyway. I’m sure I’ve made it clear that I’m a huge The Americans fan. It’s my fourth favorite show, which may not sound like much, but I watch a lot of television. I just like GOT better.

[Mladen]

1 hour ago, Dragon in the North said:

I disagree. GOT was the best show I watched in 2017 and continues to be my favorite show of all time. I’m not sure how you can judge the Emmy voters passion. We didn’t hear their thought process behind their decision, we just know that they voted GOT as best drama. And the reactions I saw were those of excitement. I recognize this line of thinking and am going to guess the other site you are referring to is Watchers on the Wall, in which case, you saw the excitement too. I know I was excited, anyway. I’m sure I’ve made it clear that I’m a huge The Americans fan. It’s my fourth favorite show, which may not sound like much, but I watch a lot of television. I just like GOT better.

Well, passion is a subjective thing and as I said, it can be difficult to correctly assess it. Just like you have seen reactions of excitement (and so did I), I have also read comments full of disappointment. The thing is, GoT is pretty good show. Is it the best show? No. Is it the best show in history? No. My impression is that voting members of Academy weren't as impressed by the Season 7 as many of the fans were. That translated to nominations and ultimately awards. This year's Best Supporting Actor in Drama Series was passionless. There was no performance that inspired people to vote for it, there was no narrative for any of the gentlemen and in such climate, voters tend to name check someone. For example, do you understand how much passion Matthew Rhys had to inspire to beat Brown and Ventimiglia, who were clear frontrunners. Same with Thandie Newton. Emmy voters proved to be difficult to predict this year with Foy, Rhys and Newton. Even that Directing Award was quite a surprise. And then we went to "business as usual" which, for me (and many others, but I do acknowledge not for general population) was quite the letdown. It felt like underwhelming finish to a night where Drama Series offered so much in terms of new winners and breaking some established rules Academy made throughout the years. 

That said, I could be totally wrong. It was just the impression I got. And yes, I do admit I am bias and that I truly dislike the narrative and style of GoT in Season 7. It truly lacked substance for me.

[Dragon in the North]

1 hour ago, Risto said:

Well, passion is a subjective thing and as I said, it can be difficult to correctly assess it. Just like you have seen reactions of excitement (and so did I), I have also read comments full of disappointment. The thing is, GoT is pretty good show. Is it the best show? No. Is it the best show in history? No. My impression is that voting members of Academy weren't as impressed by the Season 7 as many of the fans were. That translated to nominations and ultimately awards. This year's Best Supporting Actor in Drama Series was passionless. There was no performance that inspired people to vote for it, there was no narrative for any of the gentlemen and in such climate, voters tend to name check someone. For example, do you understand how much passion Matthew Rhys had to inspire to beat Brown and Ventimiglia, who were clear frontrunners. Same with Thandie Newton. Emmy voters proved to be difficult to predict this year with Foy, Rhys and Newton. Even that Directing Award was quite a surprise. And then we went to "business as usual" which, for me (and many others, but I do acknowledge not for general population) was quite the letdown. It felt like underwhelming finish to a night where Drama Series offered so much in terms of new winners and breaking some established rules Academy made throughout the years. 

That said, I could be totally wrong. It was just the impression I got. And yes, I do admit I am bias and that I truly dislike the narrative and style of GoT in Season 7. It truly lacked substance for me.

This isn’t an unusual occurrence after an Emmy show. People always have expressed their disappointment if their favorite show didn’t win.

I actually agree that Peter Dinklage didn’t have much competition this year, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t deserve the win. I, for one, really enjoyed his performance this year and thought he was amazing in his reunions with Jon, Jaime, and Cersei. His expression at the dying Lannister soldiers in Spoils of War was very well done as well. His performance in season 7 was definitely much better than his performance in seasons 5 and 6. I don’t quite understand what you mean about the best drama award. Should the Emmy voters simply pick a random show just to be different, or should they choose the series they believe put on the best show that year?

For the record, even though GOT didn’t win as many Emmys this year as they did the last time they were eligible, I am glad that other shows/performers had their chance to shine. I simply don’t begrudge GOT for the awards they did win.

[Mladen]

17 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

I don’t quite understand what you mean about the best drama award. Should the Emmy voters simply pick a random show just to be different, or should they choose the series they believe put on the best show that year?

Much of voting these days in these awards shows is done by name-checking, Emmys are not different from others. Some popular things, or things with well-established reputation will usually get a vote even if it is questionable whether they deserve it. That is why we have Meryl Streep being nominated for everything she is in these days. Awards are not about everyone being on the mission of finding the best product. It is mostly about the sheep mentality and occasional laziness of the members, 

I can give my arm that out of thousands, half of the members didn't even bother to watch all the nominated shows. This is not even a secret in Hollywood, but an established facts. That is why Oscars pushed for 10 Best Picture nominees in 2009 - to allow some independent movies to be part of the conversation. 

Awards, in general, is about perception. That is why debates of who should have won and who was robbed at any award shows persist. And, in my opinion, which was formed by what I have heard in conversations about Game of Thrones and other TV products, I made a conclusion that people weren't either impressed by the season and that they felt that the time has come for something new. Not to just push GoT aside, but to give equal chance to many other shows people failed to watch. 

17 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

I simply don’t begrudge GOT for the awards they did win.

I don't begrudge them. They do their jobs and hope for the best. I am just saddened that some truly exquisite TV products are being so blatantly overlooked in favor of the most popular Tv product nowadays.

[Bronn Stone]

36 minutes ago, Risto said:

I don't begrudge them. They do their jobs and hope for the best. I am just saddened that some truly exquisite TV products are being so blatantly overlooked in favor of the most popular Tv product nowadays.

I must more than quibble with your use of "nowadays"

If you don't think things are 10,000 times better than they were 20 or 30 years ago, or 40 or 50 years ago, you REALLY don't understand things 20-50 years ago.  The "little guy" has never had as good a chance as he/she does today.  The Academy has come a long way.  The Emmys aren't about

And objectively, I believe "has captured the imagination of a viewing public in a genre that was universally dismissed until very recently" is a tremendous thing.  I never, ever, ever dared to hope I'd have my siblings, who dismissed my "weird stuff" for decades, telling me that I "know nothing". 

Is a song (or a story, or a show) that completely impressed the twelve people who heard it REALLY more valuable than one that moved millions?

As a show, GoT has plenty of problems but that doesn't overshadow the tremendous accomplishment of taking something whose creator was notorious for writing things that were beyond the scope of the medium of television and making a mostly coherent telling of a tale of a type that has never been told on television.

I love The Americans as much as I can like a show.  But creating a small bit of 1980's US/USSR and a few dozen characters is nowhere near as daunting as the task that D&D undertook.
 

[Mladen]

4 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

The "little guy" has never had as good a chance as he/she does today.  The Academy has come a long way.

That is also true. But we also have the issue of having too many big and small guys nowadays. And it that equation, only truly exquisite little guy does stand a chance against solid big guy. 

6 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

And objectively, I believe "has captured the imagination of a viewing public in a genre that was universally dismissed until very recently" is a tremendous thing.  I never, ever, ever dared to hope I'd have my siblings, who dismissed my "weird stuff" for decades, telling me that I "know nothing". 

I don't negate the cultural impact of what GoT did or how it presented fantasy to wider audience. I just don't think it is the best TV show in 2017/2018.

8 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

Is a song (or a story, or a show) that completely impressed the twelve people who heard it REALLY more valuable than one that moved millions?

This is the same argument used by Twilight and 50 shades of grey fans. Popularity and quality are not interchangeable. A popular product can be just as good as it can be bad. On one side of that spectrum you have LOTR, on another Twilight. Same goes for obscure products. Some are good, some are bad. 

10 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

I love The Americans as much as I can like a show.  But creating a small bit of 1980's US/USSR and a few dozen characters is nowhere near as daunting as the task that D&D undertook.

It perhaps is not as daunting, but it certainly draw a great talent. What Fields and Weisberg wrote and put in "START" is something that I honestly believe Benioff and Weiss will never, ever be able to do. That episode was a masterclass in writing and truly encapsulated drama of the characters we knew for 6 seasons. 

Benioff and Weiss have this incredible story and yet, they made, although somewhat coherent story, something that truly fades in comparison with many TV greats. Yes, logistics is nightmare, casting is huge, production value is through the roof. But, when it comes to the core of Martin's writing, what lies below all the gore, blood and destruction is something they not only they are unaware of, but simply not interested in. Yes, they are not writing school paper, but neither were Fields and Weisberg and one can spend hours and days talking about genius that went into that last episode of The Americans. 

I wholeheartedly believe that the best drama 2017/2018 was The Americans. I believe that GoT had one cheap solutions too many for my taste, even though I can't speak against many, many great aspects of GoT. 

[Bronn Stone]

2 minutes ago, Risto said:

This is the same argument used by Twilight and 50 shades of grey fans. Popularity and quality are not interchangeable. A popular product can be just as good as it can be bad. On one side of that spectrum you have LOTR, on another Twilight. Same goes for obscure products. Some are good, some are bad.

It is half the argument, but not all of it.  Millions thought Twilight was great.  Even more millions saw it and thought it was a waste of every resource it used and the severing the reproductive systems of every person involved in creating it would be a service to the gene pool.

If you really think Season 6 of GoT had anything important in common with dreck like Twilight, well then,  good to know.

If The Americans had won, I'd not have complained.  It was compelling and had it been created 20 years ago it would have been at that point the greatest show ever on television.  But these days, it is just one entree in a huge buffet of awesome shows. 

[Magnar, P.I.]

17 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

If you really think Season 6 of GoT had anything important in common with dreck like Twilight, well then,  good to know.

I don't know I kind of see it. Action and CGI prioritized over substance. A 100% hot cast, a series that went on too long. Tribalistic side-picking by the characters and fans alike. After all, what's the difference between House Stark vs. House Lannister and Team Edward vs. Team Jacob? Is Jon so different from a glittery vampire? Like them he kind of gets to have his cake and eat it too, that is if he's truly the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna (Rhaeyanna?) as is hinted at in Season 6 and awkwardly exposited in Season 7.

I've not read the Twilight books (or seen the movies for that matter) but I'm guessing the directors/producers took plenty of liberties in their interpretation, just as D&D did, as anyone who ever reboots or covers someone else's material does. Fan service and plot simplification and extended action scenes, oh my!

In fact, the biggest difference I can think of between the Twilight saga and GOT S6 is that Twilight had wolves in it...

That all said, I'll take dragon porn over vampire/werewolf porn any day.

[Dragon in the North]

On September 20, 2018 at 6:05 PM, Risto said:

Much of voting these days in these awards shows is done by name-checking, Emmys are not different from others. Some popular things, or things with well-established reputation will usually get a vote even if it is questionable whether they deserve it. That is why we have Meryl Streep being nominated for everything she is in these days. Awards are not about everyone being on the mission of finding the best product. It is mostly about the sheep mentality and occasional laziness of the members, 

I can give my arm that out of thousands, half of the members didn't even bother to watch all the nominated shows. This is not even a secret in Hollywood, but an established facts. That is why Oscars pushed for 10 Best Picture nominees in 2009 - to allow some independent movies to be part of the conversation. 

Awards, in general, is about perception. That is why debates of who should have won and who was robbed at any award shows persist. And, in my opinion, which was formed by what I have heard in conversations about Game of Thrones and other TV products, I made a conclusion that people weren't either impressed by the season and that they felt that the time has come for something new. Not to just push GoT aside, but to give equal chance to many other shows people failed to watch. 

I see this every year. Some people say Emmy voters only vote for those shows that are the most popular, others say that the Emmy voters take bribes, etc. There's always some excuse as to why someone's favorite show doesn't win. It never holds up. This year, for instance. Let's say that GOT only won because "thousands of members" didn't bother watching The Americans, how did Matthew Rhys get the votes necessary to win Best Actor? If Emmy voters engage in sheep mentality and only vote for the most popular shows/actors, why didn't Sterling K. Brown win again? Why didn't the Handsmaid's Tale sweep the awards again this year? Why did GOT lose in directing and writing? Why has The Big Bang Theory stopped receiving nominations. I mean, your explanation doesn't make sense. It has never made sense. There's not a shred of evidence that this is how the Emmy voting system works. Quality is subjective, so the Emmy voters are only giving their opinions when they vote for a particular show. GOT winning doesn't mean that it's better than The Americans, it only means that the Emmy voters think it's better.