Primetime Emmy Awards 2018

[Dragon in the North]

On September 20, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Risto said:

It perhaps is not as daunting, but it certainly draw a great talent. What Fields and Weisberg wrote and put in "START" is something that I honestly believe Benioff and Weiss will never, ever be able to do. That episode was a masterclass in writing and truly encapsulated drama of the characters we knew for 6 seasons. 

Oh, I disagree. "START" was an amazing episode, no doubt about that, and I believe it was better written than every episode of season 7 of GOT, but there were some flaws. The Americans finale spoilers: 

Spoiler

I was disappointed that the garage scene was the only scene we had of Stan confronting the Jennings. I mean, six seasons of build up and that's all we get? It was a spectacular scene, don't get me wrong, I just wish we had gotten more. Also, I'm a bit iffy about Stan just letting the Jennings go. Sure, he admires their son, but is that enough? My least favorite part of the episode was how Henry was totally given the shaft. We didn't even get one proper scene of his reaction to who his parents really were and how they had totally abandoned him without a word. Lastly, the loose ends with Paige and Stan's wife. I understand how hard it is to close every loose thread, they didn't even seem to try, especially with Stan's wife. Still, it was my second favorite series finale so far after The Shield.

There are several GOT episodes that I believe are just as well written or maybe even a little better than "START" such as, Baelor, The Laws of Gods and Men, Mockingbird, Two Swords, The Children, The Winds of Winter, The Broken Man, possibly a few more. I assume you are speaking strictly on writing so I left out the big battle episodes.

[Mladen]

13 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

I see this every year. Some people say Emmy voters only vote for those shows that are the most popular, others say that the Emmy voters take bribes, etc. There's always some excuse as to why someone's favorite show doesn't win. It never holds up. This year, for instance. Let's say that GOT only won because "thousands of members" didn't bother watching The Americans, how did Matthew Rhys get the votes necessary to win Best Actor? If Emmy voters engage in sheep mentality and only vote for the most popular shows/actors, why didn't Sterling K. Brown win again? Why didn't the Handsmaid's Tale sweep the awards again this year? Why did GOT lose in directing and writing? Why has The Big Bang Theory stopped receiving nominations. I mean, your explanation doesn't make sense. It has never made sense. There's not a shred of evidence that this is how the Emmy voting system works. Quality is subjective, so the Emmy voters are only giving their opinions when they vote for a particular show. GOT winning doesn't mean that it's better than The Americans, it only means that the Emmy voters think it's better

There is every evidence that this is how Emmys work. It is not an exact science but some conclusions can be made. Matthew Rhys is not the first one to win award in the last season. Remember Jon Hamm? Sterling K. Brown represent the other side of voting, the actor rewarded for its first season and quickly forgotten, the likes of  Jeff Daniels, Damien Lewis and Rami Malek comes to mind. Oscars, Emmys, Globes, all of these award ceremonies have certain rules. That is why people can quite correctly predict the winners. TBBT simply, like Grey's anatomy in Drama Series, simply became uninteresting. People moved on... It happens all the time. Awarding body is a living, breathing organism but you can actually follow certain rules, and name-checking is one of the most obvious one. Things get noticed and things get overlooked. Just like every one of us notices and overlooks some things.

 

3 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

There are several GOT episodes that I believe are just as well written or maybe even a little better than "START" such as, Baelor, The Laws of Gods and Men, Mockingbird, Two Swords, The Children, The Winds of Winter, The Broken Man, possibly a few more. I assume you are speaking strictly on writing so I left out the big battle episodes.

I am sorry, but I don't think any of those episodes were better than START. Yes, I can be bias here, but I do think that START worked perfectly in providing a finale that would be carried out solely on the backs of the human drama. And that was the most wonderful point of the entire show. It always comes down to people, to what they believe in and what they are ready to do. 

Big battle episodes in GoT can be masterfully written like Blackwater or can make so little sense like Battle of the Bastards. Hardhome is a directorial masterpiece and the entire sequence is also written nicely. GoT at the beginning had so much relying on wonderful drama being connected to the imaginary world. People have seen big budget spectacle, that was not what they signed on when they started watching GoT. They were sold on drama aspect. The aspect of human conflict. The very same aspect START did so marvelously and GoT Season 7 did so poorly. Just look at Stark girls conflict. There is a real conflict. Not something to be so blatantly disregard, but a real conflict that had to be resolved in a proper way. We migrated all the baddies on one side - Cersei, Euron and Randyll Tarly against all the good guys - Starks, Dany and Tyrion. I always laugh when I remember how Tyrion and Ellaria exchanged words about Myrcella. 

As for START

Spoiler

It was perfect episode because it carried the hype from previous episode and we knew that it is the end. When we came to the moment when Elizabeth had to understand that Henry will be better without them. It is nothing, the script itself relied on Russel's talent to deliver it and boy, did she... The entire thought process, a very complex situation and all the aspects of that decision, her face showed it and she was only able to gasp. When you see Phillip leaving McDonalds and watching the nuclear family in one of the final aspects of deamericanization of Phillip. And then train scene... The comeuppance that we believed we will never see. And there it was. That was turning the tables in the most poignant way. Paige leaving them, going back to USA, claiming her life and abandoning the family forever. In the moment they were finally free, when everything was supposed to be OK, the reality hit. And as any parent would say, death is better than losing a child. And they lost two. And then through Tchaikovsky's musical intro they came into Russia to see Moscow's panorama. But it is 1987. Their START is almost the end. And in the moment when you see them watching Moscow and everything they fought, knowing what'll come, realizing how futile everything was on that grand scale of things, you begin to comprehend the tragedy of Phillip and Elizabeth. And with all those beautifully and purposefully unanswered questions, especially with Renee, the show finished its 6th season in that very frustrating place where many of us are or have been. Having questions and no answers. And that is at the core of any human drama. 

 

[Dragon in the North]

2 hours ago, Risto said:

There is every evidence that this is how Emmys work. It is not an exact science but some conclusions can be made. Matthew Rhys is not the first one to win award in the last season. Remember Jon Hamm? Sterling K. Brown represent the other side of voting, the actor rewarded for its first season and quickly forgotten, the likes of  Jeff Daniels, Damien Lewis and Rami Malek comes to mind. Oscars, Emmys, Globes, all of these award ceremonies have certain rules. That is why people can quite correctly predict the winners. TBBT simply, like Grey's anatomy in Drama Series, simply became uninteresting. People moved on... It happens all the time. Awarding body is a living, breathing organism but you can actually follow certain rules, and name-checking is one of the most obvious one. Things get noticed and things get overlooked. Just like every one of us notices and overlooks some things.

Well, I certainly haven't seen any evidence that proves your point. The fact that the Emmy voters keep changing which actors to vote for proves my point and contradicts yours. They didn't vote for these men because their show is the most popular, they voted for them because, in their opinion, they gave the best performance that year. The Big Bang Theory is still one of the most popular comedies on tv right now, so people didn't move on, Emmy voters did. Again, this is evidence that Emmy voters are basing their votes off of their opinions, and nothing more. Otherwise, The Big Bang Theory would continue to be nominated.

 

2 hours ago, Risto said:

I am sorry, but I don't think any of those episodes were better than START. Yes, I can be bias here, but I do think that START worked perfectly in providing a finale that would be carried out solely on the backs of the human drama. And that was the most wonderful point of the entire show. It always comes down to people, to what they believe in and what they are ready to do. 

Big battle episodes in GoT can be masterfully written like Blackwater or can make so little sense like Battle of the Bastards. Hardhome is a directorial masterpiece and the entire sequence is also written nicely. GoT at the beginning had so much relying on wonderful drama being connected to the imaginary world. People have seen big budget spectacle, that was not what they signed on when they started watching GoT. They were sold on drama aspect. The aspect of human conflict. The very same aspect START did so marvelously and GoT Season 7 did so poorly. Just look at Stark girls conflict. There is a real conflict. Not something to be so blatantly disregard, but a real conflict that had to be resolved in a proper way. We migrated all the baddies on one side - Cersei, Euron and Randyll Tarly against all the good guys - Starks, Dany and Tyrion. I always laugh when I remember how Tyrion and Ellaria exchanged words about Myrcella. 

As for START

  Reveal hidden contents

It was perfect episode because it carried the hype from previous episode and we knew that it is the end. When we came to the moment when Elizabeth had to understand that Henry will be better without them. It is nothing, the script itself relied on Russel's talent to deliver it and boy, did she... The entire thought process, a very complex situation and all the aspects of that decision, her face showed it and she was only able to gasp. When you see Phillip leaving McDonalds and watching the nuclear family in one of the final aspects of deamericanization of Phillip. And then train scene... The comeuppance that we believed we will never see. And there it was. That was turning the tables in the most poignant way. Paige leaving them, going back to USA, claiming her life and abandoning the family forever. In the moment they were finally free, when everything was supposed to be OK, the reality hit. And as any parent would say, death is better than losing a child. And they lost two. And then through Tchaikovsky's musical intro they came into Russia to see Moscow's panorama. But it is 1987. Their START is almost the end. And in the moment when you see them watching Moscow and everything they fought, knowing what'll come, realizing how futile everything was on that grand scale of things, you begin to comprehend the tragedy of Phillip and Elizabeth. And with all those beautifully and purposefully unanswered questions, especially with Renee, the show finished its 6th season in that very frustrating place where many of us are or have been. Having questions and no answers. And that is at the core of any human drama. 

 

No need to apologize for having a conflicting opinion. I have bias as well. Yes, I agree with all of your points about what makes "START" such an amazing hour of television. However, the flaws I mentioned still stand for me, especially my disappointment that

Spoiler

the writers completely neglected to show Henry's reaction to hearing about who his parents really are and why they abandoned him. I couldn't believe they didn't give us one scene. After Stan, Henry's reaction was something I have been looking forward to seeing for a long time.

Yes, battle episodes in GOT are written very well, but it's really the technical aspects that would have elevated it above The Americans finale rather than the written ones, which is why I left it off my list. I loved how the other episodes on my list were written and fully believe they contain some of the best written scenes on television, but that's just me.

[HexMachina]

Totally unrelated to the above posts, but I didn't actually see the ceremony last week so just watching a few clips now. Sandra Oh is a total gem. "THE WINNER IS LALA LAND!"