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U.S. Politics: Kraving for Kavanaugh


lokisnow

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My brother was telling me he saw a news report that the EU was ready to cave to the US on autos and remove all tariffs on American vehicles in exchange for the same from the US.

I have not seen anything about this, has anyone else? And I kind of suspect that would result in more European vehicles being sold in the US than American vehicles being sold in Europe. I could imagine Trump bragging about a great victory, a fantastic victory. A Pyrrhic victory?

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15 minutes ago, King Ned Stark said:

Did any of you actually read the article?  The bill states that anyone wearing a mask and engaging in certain activities would be subject to arrest.  Now maybe you don’t like the bill because you think people from your “side” are more likely to engage in said activities.  I know you guys like to deal in hyperbole and paranoia, but maybe you should dial it back a tad.

Oh, so arrest and prosecution will be left to the discretion of police and local prosecutors. How comforting. There won't be disparate outcomes or selective enforcement there!

I know you like to deal in willful ignorance and disingenuous racial gaslighting, but maybe you should dial it back a tad.

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4 minutes ago, Casablanca Birdie said:

You Americans are nuts. I’d have a heart attack if Zi was in Starbucks and a guy walked in with a an AR-15, which these fuckers love to do, just to demonstrate their rught to open carry.

As if that wasn’t a ‘threat’ or ‘intimidation’. 

I'm not American.

Just now, Scott de Montevideo! said:

If it isn't a Bill of Attainder it is a clear violation of the first amendment.  These people may dress as they please.  Attempting to make certain styles of dress illegal in public... is government action inhibiting freedom of expression.

Can it be done as state legislature, then? I've just seen an aritcle that says there are laws against wearing masks in certain states.

1 minute ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

Exactly!  There are already laws on the books in EVERY state against acts of violence, why do we need more? 

Because the only purpose of the mask is to conceal their identities and make criminal prosecution more difficult. Why do you think Antifa does it?

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7 hours ago, Scott de Montevideo! said:

It could be what you describe, but it is also a method to simply amend the US Constitution.  It has never been used.

Yes states petitioning congress for a convention has not been called. However, state ratifying conventions were used to ratify the 21st amendment  in order to give state legislators plausible deniability and “ clean hands”.

my proposal is in the event of a 1932 scale wave election:

1. Win full control of all houses of 38 state legislatures.

2. Win a majority in both houses of federal congress

3. Have one person, reliable partisan, from each state sent to an obscure hotel in remote Kauai and wait and do nothing

4. Have state legislators petition congress for a convention to amend the constitution.

5. Congress so assents by simple majority vote. 

6. The state legislatures then immmediately nominate the person in Kauai (as the sole delegate of their state) to the constitutional convention in Kauai and in less than 24 hours, the convention has a quorum of 34 and away we go.

7. The (already drafted) fifty-ish amendments we need to fix the government are proposed and approved by the convention which sends them back to the state legislatures—in less than 24 hours, total.

8. By January 23rd or 24th The states vote to ratify.

***

8 is the most problematic step, I’d much rather have conventions ratify amendments with a similar arrangement to 3, but most states have laws specifying how ratifying conventions will be held if congress stipulates conventions for ratification, so we probably have to have the legislatures vote on ratification and can’t grant them the clean hands the 21st amendment granted.

This method would avoid a two thirds majority requirement in the senate, which with any one wave election is almost impossible to achieve given the staggered senate classes.

its crazy and hardball yes, but we have to be willing to think like this and plan for these sorts of possibilities if we are serious about abolishing atrocities like the electoral college and lifetime judicial appointments.

 

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7 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Oh, so arrest and prosecution will be left to the discretion of police and local prosecutors. How comforting. There won't be disparate outcomes or selective enforcement there!

I know you like to deal in willful ignorance and disingenuous racial gaslighting, but maybe you should dial it back a tad.

I was being a bit cheeky; I’d actually be in favor of much fewer laws,  not more.  It’s just that most people seem to want fewer laws for their “side” and more for the other.  But as Sweetpea said, why are you wearing a mask, if not to conceal your identity.

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http://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2018/07/04/maga-mayhem-fractures-a-mans-skull-as-right-wing-marchers-test-the-limits-of-free-speech-in-portland/

Quote

In the Trump era, progressive Portland is now a target.

In nearly a dozen Portland protests, Patriot Prayer and its leader, U.S. Senate candidate Joey Gibson, have cultivated a violent rivalry with local antifascists, who try to run the right-wingers out of town. Patriot Prayer appears to relish and seek out these clashes as a test of strength.

The ostensible purpose of the June 30 march was to host a campaign event for Gibson, who is running for the Senate as a Republican in Washington state.

But threats on social media last month and Patriot Prayer supporters sporting "Good Night Antifa" shirts suggest the group's actual aim was to bait antifascists into violence and discredit other progressive protests, like the blockade of a federal immigration office.

The Southern Poverty Law Center says Patriot Prayer's rallies "have all been held in places that are established centers of liberal/left politics, all with the clear intent of attempting to provoke a violent response from far-left antifascists."

These poor, poor innocent Right-wingers that mean old Antifa is picking on.

Unsurprisingly, the bully cries foul after getting punched in the nose in retaliation to a constant barrage of assault and abuse.

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28 minutes ago, Frog Eater said:

If the KKK  “injures, oppresses, threatens, or intimidates any person … in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege” then they would deserve the same treatment under the law. But I havent seen the KKK throwing bottles of piss, rocks and firecrackers at a group or march while hiding behind a mask.  

 

You're right, the KKK is not, nor ever has been, known for violent actions, such as lynchings. They are the very picture of a well-behaved Christian organization. The masks and burning crosses are just for shits and giggles, too. In no way could they be interpreted as intimidating or threating... 

:rolleyes:

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4 minutes ago, King Ned Stark said:

I was being a bit cheeky; I’d actually be in favor of much fewer laws,  not more.  It’s just that most people seem to want fewer laws for their “side” and more for the other.  But as Sweetpea said, why are you wearing a mask, if not to conceal your identity.

Maybe because law enforcement is infested with white supremacists and they can't be trusted to handle themselves in neutral fashion? My friends at various protests last year were eyewitnesses to police treating Nazis with kid gloves while cracking down on anti-Nazi protesters.

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34 minutes ago, Frog Eater said:

why do you think he loves the KKK?

The fucking KKK is irrelevant, its a boogeyman 

If the KKK  “injures, oppresses, threatens, or intimidates any person … in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege” then they would deserve the same treatment under the law. But I havent seen the KKK throwing bottles of piss, rocks and firecrackers at a group or march while hiding behind a mask.  

 

 

Yeah, lynch mobs are pretty tame compared to throwing bottles of piss, agreed

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23 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

.

Because the only purpose of the mask is to conceal their identities and make criminal prosecution more difficult. Why do you think Antifa does it?

Since you're not a US citizen, you probably aren't aware, but cops in the US tend to side with white supremacists and fascists.  They think of themselves as a militarized force at war with the non white, non-mainstreet, non-cornfed whiteboy America.  The mask is a an attempt to even the playing field.

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2 minutes ago, King Ned Stark said:

I was being a bit cheeky; I’d actually be in favor of much fewer laws,  not more.  It’s just that most people seem to want fewer laws for their “side” and more for the other.  But as Sweetpea said, why are you wearing a mask, if not to conceal your identity.

There are many reasons to not want your identity to be revealed at protests.  I for one wouldn't want the head of my department seeing me at a protest, what I do in my personal time is none of his business and it might affect my getting promotions and bonuses.

A political example:

Quote

California had an expansive anti-mask law for decades, until the Iranian revolution in 1979. Iranian-Americans in California sued over the law, saying it kept them from shielding their identities for safety purposes in protests against the new leadership in Iran. The law was struck down.

“The California court recognized, and other courts recognize, that people wear masks in all sorts of situations for completely nonviolent and, in fact, purposes that are protected by the First Amendment,” Michael T. Risher, a senior staff attorney at the American Civil Liberties Union of Northern California, said in an interview.

After that case, the state enacted a far narrower provision: It is illegal to wear a mask in the act of committing a crime.

In some states it has been struck down, while in others it has been upheld

(this one is just from Wiki)

Quote

These laws have been challenged on the grounds that they violate the guarantees of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution to free speech and free association. Some courts have weighed freedom of speech against the public safety interest, and upheld such laws. For example, the Georgia Supreme Court found the law constitutional on the grounds that the wearing of the mask was an act of intimidation and a threat of violence, which is not protected speech.[10] That law has exceptions for holiday celebrations, theatre performances, and occupational safety; the ruling makes it unclear if someone is violating the law if they wear a mask without the intent to threaten violence. A three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit upheld a New York law on the ground that wearing a Ku Klux Klan mask did not convey a protected message beyond that conveyed by wearing a hood and robe.[2] Other courts have struck down anti-mask laws. For example, Tennesee and Florida state laws have been invalidated on the grounds that they were unconstitutionally broad.[10] An ordinance in Goshen, Indiana, was struck down based on First Amendment doctrine that specifically protects anonymous speech and anonymous association, especially for unpopular groups like the KKK

 

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It is perfectly legal to conceal your identify when you go to a rally. This kind of sloppy reasoning like "what possible reason could you have to hide your identity and then cause trouble" basically elides the fact that it is the "causing trouble" part that should be tackled (and already is by existing laws).

By the same logic, "what possible reason could you have to carry a gun if not to kill other people?" could be used to outlaw all firearms too.

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2 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

It is perfectly legal to conceal your identify when you go to a rally. This kind of sloppy reasoning like "what possible reason could you have to hide your identity and then cause trouble" basically elides the fact that it is the "causing trouble" part that should be tackled (and already is by existing laws).

By the same logic, "what possible reason could you have to carry a gun if not to kill other people?" could be used to outlaw all firearms too.

Dude, that logic only goes in one direction.

The House passing crazy bills is just par for the course.  Conservatives constantly yell about states rights when it come to subjects like abortions, but then they go and pass a bill that would allow people with a concealed carry permit in one state, to travel with their concealed weapon to any state, not to have to get a separate permission in each state. It was done clearly to circumvent the laws of states where concealed carry is very tightly controlled. You can't expect them to apply the same logic to the subjects they are against as they do to the ones they are in favor.

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10 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Since you're not a US citizen, you probably aren't aware, but cops in the US tend to side with white supremacists and fascists.  They think of themselves as a militarized force at war with the non white, non-mainstreet, non-cornfed whiteboy America.  The mask is a an attempt to even the playing field.

Yeah, I know, it's very easy to use the "US is white supremacist!" card to excuse any and all shitty behaviour from the left. Doesn't matter what they do, in the end, it's always the evil white supremacists' fault.

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7 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

Yeah, I know, it's very easy to use the "US is white supremacist!" card to excuse any and all shitty behaviour from the left. Doesn't matter what they do, in the end, it's always the evil white supremacists' fault.

Shitty behavior from the left like... protesting white supremacy?

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24 minutes ago, IamMe90 said:

Yeah, lynch mobs are pretty tame compared to throwing bottles of piss, agreed

I went Googling and apparently the most recent KKK lynching are more recent than I thought, so I dont mean to mitigate or condone KKK violence, I just havent heard of the KKK anywhere but as a boogeyman on TV since I was a kid. I am not defending the KKK or carrying any water for them. 

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1 minute ago, Casablanca Birdie said:

So you're not only a troll but you're a coward who doesn't reveal their true colours? A Harper Canadian then? Or an eastern European goon?

how has he trolled you? by stating an opinion that isnt yours?

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What if we weren't allowed to post on-line except using our real names and locations?  Would people still post in certain topics, on certain forums?  Look at all of us sitting her concealing our identities, we must be up to no good.

Seriously though, I could totally see this being the next step.  Am I alone in that thought?

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