U.S. Politics: Kraving for Kavanaugh

[Darth Richard II]

Yeah my grammars is not best.

[DanteGabriel]

4 hours ago, King Ned Stark said:

This is poignant to me as a straight, white, Christian man; not because of all those labels.  I don’t care what people think of me, or if they call me names, sticks and stones and all that.  However, I do have four kids, the two oldest are girls and the two youngest are boys, whom by all appearances to me seem to be straight, white and Christian.  There seems to be a large segment of society that thinks they are inherently evil, or that I am inherently evil; or that at the least we are helping propagate something inherently evil.  This is important because the left are exceptional well versed at using guilt and semantics against people; as this thread and all the others have shown.  You have clowns like Sword of Doom who uses terms like anti-choice (and also says stuff like f*** white people), and that’s okay, because it works within the narrative they’re pushing.  I guess I should take my kids out behind the woodshed, because they are destined to grow up into nazis.

 

When one of their authority figures can sink this deep into his own amply fed navel, whining about how persecuted he feels for being a white Christian man in the wealthiest and most powerful country that has ever existed, and was built explicitly to cater to white Christians, I'd say your kids at least have an uphill climb to achieve decent perspective. Seriously, get over your shit. This is some sad, pathetic whining.

Maybe your kids will grow up to be Nazis, if this is your attitude, where you have to invent strawmen to feel like a victim. Or at least the kind of people who calls the cops on black people for being at a swimming pool or sitting in a Starbucks. Tell me this: have you had the conversation with your kids about how likely it is that cops will stop them for no good reason, and that their lives will be in danger because of that contact with police? Have you talked to them about how they'll be followed around in stores and assumed to be thieves based on the color of their skin? That's a thing black families have to contend with in this country. But you're worried that someone out there's going to make them feel guilty for being white and benefitting from literally centuries of demographic deck-stacking in their favor. Oh noes! They might have to think about the idea of privilege! I can see how allergic it makes you, so it'll probably be pretty traumatic if they encounter the idea.

Fuck's sake. I'm going to guess you're one of the astounding number of people who thinks it's tougher for white people than minorities in this country. One of those up-his-own-ass dipshits who thinks being accused of racism is worse than suffering from racism. Do you even pay attention to the discussions here, or do you just look for evidence that the deck is stacked against your born on third base ass?

[Fragile Bird]

4 hours ago, IamMe90 said:

I loathe the opinions of this poster, but she/he has stated in a previous thread that he/she is not an American. Also, you can't equate not volunteering one's own nationality with "pretending to be American." That's ridiculous. If SweetPea was pretending to be American, she/he would have said such, or listed "United States" as his/her profile location. 

Well gee, I guess I missed that. No information on his/he page or on his/her avatar. But a troll for an avatar.

[Jace, Extat]

Slow news week so far.

All them poor brown people being caged have been relegated to a single headline to the right of CNN's homepage.

I guess I was wrong about it being out of the news in a month. Barely made it 3 weeks.

[Martell Spy]

Ohio Woman Calls Cops on Black 12-Year-Old Paper Boy

https://www.thedailybeast.com/world-cup-croatia-bests-england-2-1-will-face-france-in-final

Quote

A woman called the police on a black 12-year-old delivering newspapers in her Ohio neighborhood. She told the 911 dispatcher, “I noticed they were walking up to houses with nothing in hand and one of them came back with something,” according to the Columbus ABC station. She also called the incident “suspicious.” But the boy, Uriah Sharp, had simply delivered papers to the wrong house and was retrieving them, his mother, Brandie Sharp, said

 

[DanteGabriel]

2 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Ohio Woman Calls Cops on Black 12-Year-Old Paper Boy

https://www.thedailybeast.com/world-cup-croatia-bests-england-2-1-will-face-france-in-final

 

Stop posting these, it makes @King Ned Stark feel persecuted for being white and Christian. Every time a black kid gets the cops called on them for being out in public, a white kid feels the pain.

(Also, looks like your link is about the World Cup)

[karaddin]

6 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Maybe because law enforcement is infested with white supremacists and they can't be trusted to handle themselves in neutral fashion? My friends at various protests last year were eyewitnesses to police treating Nazis with kid gloves while cracking down on anti-Nazi protesters.

The discussion has moved on a bit from this but hiding their identities from law enforcement isn't even the only purpose. Police can identify them when they arrest them, but you don't have to be arrested (or do anything at all really) for a right wing hate mob to descend on your life and ruin you - hiding your identity in photos protects you from being doxxed, swatted, threats and lies phoned in to your work etc. There are many very good reasons to not let the fascist mob know who you are.

[Kalbear]

21 hours ago, DMC said:

On Bullet 4, there's nothing stopping Congress from this but Congress. 

POTUS can veto it for a large chunk of the actual laws, and in my fantasy I'm assuming you also have a willing POTUS. I'm also not assuming you have a veto-proof congressional vote. 

21 hours ago, DMC said:

On bullet 2 - how do you actually implement this in reality - seriously?  Whomever is president is going to have an inherent advantage once you commence term limits, and each party will have inherently opposing interests in how you oust current justices (if you do at all).  This is why it's more a fantasy than abolishing the EC.

 

It's a good point, and one I glossed over specifically because it's probably the hardest to do 'fairly'. The general idea is that part of the 'deal' is scheduling the retirement of the SCOTUSes in a natural way, or impeaching them if they do not choose to do it at the specific time. Or you could do it like the FDR court packing plan, and put in a new seat for every justice over a certain age who refused to retire within 6 months. 

Mostly, though, this would require both sides to agree to the deal and negotiate it out ahead of time, which means things like who is going to retire and when and how you count things is part of this deal. It's going to be different depending on when it's done, but if I had to do it now it'd probably look like this:

• Garland +Kavanaugh + another join immediately
• NEW POTUS term
• 2021: Thomas leaves, appointment 
• 2023: Ginsburgh leaves, appointment
• NEW POTUS term
• 2025: Breyer leaves, appointment
• 2027: Roberts leaves, appointment
• NEW POTUS term
• 2029: Alito leaves, appointment
• 2031: Kagan leaves, appointment
• NEW POTUS term
• 2033: Sotomayor leaves, appointment
• 2035: Gorsuch leaves, appointment
• NEW POTUS term
• 2037 Kavanaugh leaves, appointment
• 2039 Garland leaves, appointment
• NEW POTUS term
• 2041: other leaves, appointment

This follows length of time on the court, and nicely has both a conservative and liberal justice in every single pairing. 

 

[Martell Spy]

9 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Stop posting these, it makes @King Ned Stark feel persecuted for being white and Christian. Every time a black kid gets the cops called on them for being out in public, a white kid feels the pain.

(Also, looks like your link is about the World Cup)

I hate to tell you, but his white kids are totally going to be atheists after dealing with all his shit.

[DanteGabriel]

1 minute ago, karaddin said:

The discussion has moved on a bit from this but hiding their identities from law enforcement isn't even the only purpose. Police can identify them when they arrest them, but you don't have to be arrested (or do anything at all really) for a right wing hate mob to descend on your life and ruin you - hiding your identity in photos protects you from being doxxed, swatted, threats and lies phoned in to your work etc. There are many very good reasons to not let the fascist mob know who you are.

That is an excellent point, thank you.

Heather Heyer's mom had to keep her grave a secret, because of threats from Neo-Nazis.

[Martell Spy]

Obama ‘best’ president of recent years, Pew survey finds

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/11/obama-president-clinton-reagan-trump-713627

Quote

 

President Barack Obama may no longer be in the Oval Office, but many Americans believe he did “the best job” of any president in their lifetime, according to a new Pew Research Center survey.

Forty-four percent of Americans said Obama, who served two terms, is the best or second-best president of their lifetime. Bill Clinton came in next in Pew’s survey with 33 percent, followed by Ronald Reagan with 32 percent.

 

 

[Jace, Extat]

1 minute ago, Martell Spy said:

Obama ‘best’ president of recent years, Pew survey finds

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/11/obama-president-clinton-reagan-trump-713627

 

Hmm. I would have voted for 'most irrelevant'.

 

[Kalbear]

4 hours ago, King Ned Stark said:

And then there is the guy (I forget his name, it’s inconsequential) who called me sophomoric and naive because I had the temerity to say both sides need to come more towards the middle.  Going across the aisle is the only way forward, IMHO, or this melting pot gonna truly melt.  That may sound cool while you sit at your laptop, but it won’t be.

Yes, we should definitely engage in just 'some' genocide

[Kalbear]

3 hours ago, SweetPea said:

The problem is, this is clearly not the case. There is wide range of people that Antifa will call far-right, nazis, white supremacists etc. This includes centrists, libertarians, and supporters of free speech in general. Just think about how many events, especially on universities, have been shut down by Antifa, even though they had nothing to do with white supremacy. Or the riots in Hamburg last year. Just look at that video and tell me that these people aren't violent, as someone in this thread has claimed earlier. They are violent, and not just agaisnt white supremacists.

Do you have a source for this? Because antifa has so far moved against white supremacist rallies, Milo Yiannopolis (who called for killing the press recently), and Ann Coulter (who called for outing transgendered people against their will). There are no centrists that I could find, no libertarians I could find, and no 'supporters of free speech' unless you're talking about openly racist people wanting 'peaceful ethnic cleansing' as free speech supporters. 

antifa is absolutely violent at times. Violence does not equal fascism. 

[Kalbear]

2 hours ago, Rippounet said:

I was careful to say "as long as they only target white supremacists" and "in this specific instance" precisely because I was keeping Hamburg in mind. Again, context matters. You can't focus on Portland and ignore Charlottesville. Etc...

 

I'm surprised he didn't bring up this riot too:

The notion that riots occur and thus the people are intrinsically violent or their cause is unjust is, well, obviously stupid on its face.

[DMC]

45 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

POTUS can veto it for a large chunk of the actual laws, and in my fantasy I'm assuming you also have a willing POTUS. I'm also not assuming you have a veto-proof congressional vote. 

Of course - I like the fantasy too.  And since we're going that route, the last time Congress asserted its authority of the executive was the War Powers Resolution, which did indeed override a veto.  After 10, Federalist 51 is the most cited Fed entry, and for good reason.  But once you get passed the foundational aphorisms of "ambition must be made to counteract ambition" or " if all men were angels...", you get to the heart of Madison's point of the piece, which is:

Quote

In republican government, the legislative authority necessarily predominates. The remedy for this inconveniency is to divide the legislature into different branches; and to render them, by different modes of election and different principles of action, as little connected with each other as the nature of their common functions and their common dependence on the society will admit.

I try to impress this upon each and every person I talk government with.

53 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Mostly, though, this would require both sides to agree to the deal and negotiate it out ahead of time, which means things like who is going to retire and when and how you count things is part of this deal. It's going to be different depending on when it's done, but if I had to do it now it'd probably look like this

I like it, well though out, fun stuff.

Reminds me - talking about "packing" the court.  It is the only realistic solution.  And if the Dems get unified govt again they can and should do it.  The only obstacle would be cloture, but you can get around that the same way the GOP shoehorned abolishing the individual mandate into their tax bill with reconciliation:  Congress passes a funding bill for new circuit courts - loki is entirely right this should be done - and, oh, btw, we need funding for two new SCOTUS justices.

[karaddin]

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

That is an excellent point, thank you.

Heather Heyer's mom had to keep her grave a secret, because of threats from Neo-Nazis.

Gamergate was where they really started refining their techniques and the far right went into overdrive active recruiting young men online. As I saw Rian Johnson tweet a couple of days ago, it astounds me how many people don't know about it still. This propaganda and their recruitment tools are just sitting out there in the open while the gravity of the threat just gets ignored - you start watching something innocuous on youtube and the recommendations lead you to Jordan Peterson and from there its swiftly down the radical rabbit hole. It's as much a subject for a masculinity thread or something, but also very much pertinent to US politics.

[Darth Richard II]

5 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Gamergate was where they really started refining their techniques and the far right went into overdrive active recruiting young men online. As I saw Rian Johnson tweet a couple of days ago, it astounds me how many people don't know about it still. This propaganda and their recruitment tools are just sitting out there in the open while the gravity of the threat just gets ignored - you start watching something innocuous on youtube and the recommendations lead you to Jordan Peterson and from there its swiftly down the radical rabbit hole. It's as much a subject for a masculinity thread or something, but also very much pertinent to US politics.

I saw a bit of him reacting to one of the, um pro gamergaters (aka fucking Nazi dipshit) offering to explain it all to him. Twas both funny and sad and also infuriating.

Anyway, Fuck Nazis.

[Altherion]

15 minutes ago, DMC said:

Reminds me - talking about "packing" the court.  It is the only realistic solution.  And if the Dems get unified govt again they can and should do it.  The only obstacle would be cloture, but you can get around that the same way the GOP shoehorned abolishing the individual mandate into their tax bill with reconciliation:  Congress passes a funding bill for new circuit courts - loki is entirely right this should be done - and, oh, btw, we need funding for two new SCOTUS justices.

They can certainly do this... but the obvious and practically inevitable reaction of the Republicans will be to retaliate in kind the next time they have unified control of government. In the long term, this will make the court a sort of auxiliary body appointed by the party currently in power that enforces the will of that party -- especially since once we drop all illusions of it being a non-partisan interpreter of the Constitution, there is really no reason to respect precedent anymore. It would be an interesting state, for a time... but I highly doubt it would last: the court's theoretical power is too great to be wielded this way and it would be curtailed in one way or another.

[DMC]

13 minutes ago, karaddin said:

This propaganda and their recruitment tools are just sitting out there in the open while the gravity of the threat just gets ignored - you start watching something innocuous on youtube and the recommendations lead you to Jordan Peterson and from there its swiftly down the radical rabbit hole. It's as much a subject for a masculinity thread or something, but also very much pertinent to US politics.

Yup.  This sums up not only the toxic masculinity problem, but exactly how Russia influenced 2016.  I had a student that last year wanted to write a paper about that, and when we met I told her "there's been a lot of documentation about this, how would your work find ways to actually change that?"  She didn't know, I don't know, and the only people that do have zero interest in stopping it.