Damsel in Distress Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Will it spread in Westeros? Who will start the greyscale epidemic in Westeros? Shireen's condition. Is the greyscale cured or only in partial remission? Who will find a cure? How much of the population will be affected? Is the disease related to the gray, stone beast who will breath shadow fire? Do you see any important character getting the disease? Is this a curse from the turtle worshipers? Like the Rhoynar putting a curse on their enemies. The skin becomes hard like the shell of a turtle. How much does Marwyn know of greyscale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faera Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 These are some interesting questions and I'd be curious to see some responses from people who have really looked into and thought about this. For me, the impending outbreak of greyscale as always been somewhere at the back on my mind thought I have always been sceptical and to whether it will come into play on a continent level or just a few pockets of it. It would probably only spread like wildfire if it officially became grey death. One thing I will say for certain is that Shireen's greyscale will probably come into play."...Hemlock is a sure cure, but a pillow or a blade will work as well. If I had given birth to that poor child, I would have given her the gift of mercy long ago." Val's freak out, to me, indicates that she will be proven right and the wildlings might well kill Shireen if there are some fresh cases of greyscale, whether they come from her or not. "The maesters may believe what they wish. Ask a woods witch if you would know the truth. The grey death sleeps, only to wake again. The child is not clean!" What I would probably make of this though is that while Shireen might well be immune to ever dying from greyscale she may be inadvertently passing it to people, leading to an outbreak at some point. We know there is a current outbreak of grey plague in Yi Ti and that Pentos suffered an outbreak several years back that killed Serra. There is not reason to presume a massive outbreak couldn't hit Westeros come from two sources - Shireen, the wildlings and possibly members of Stannis's army in the North, and JonCon in the South. While JonCon is taking precautions to avoid spreading the disease, it would only take one mistake and he risks giving it to Aegon, directly or indirectly by being careless with someone else. I wonder... aside from children who have already had it, does anyone suppose that there might be people who are naturally immune to Greyscale? Like how there were always some people completely immune to bubonic plague, except maybe more environmental since it is linked to water and dampness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said: Will it spread in Westeros? Who will start the greyscale epidemic in Westeros? Shireen's condition. Is the greyscale cured or only in partial remission? Who will find a cure? How much of the population will be affected? Is the disease related to the gray, stone beast who will breath shadow fire? Do you see any important character getting the disease? Is this a curse from the turtle worshipers? Like the Rhoynar putting a curse on their enemies. The skin becomes hard like the shell of a turtle. How much does Marwyn know of greyscale? Martin loves to escalate the drama. Yes. Jon Connington. She hasn't infected anybody yet. I don't think she will be the source but Faera may have a point. Should the disease strike among the wildlings she will be the first to blame. Someone else may be the carrier but judging Val's attitude, it will be Shireen who gets the blame and the flame from the wildlings. We haven't found a cure for cancer and Martin wants to keep it real. There won't be a cure. ?, lots ?, maybe Aegon after he caught greyscale because shadow fire is black fire. Or Euron after destroying the citadel. All the men around Jon Connington. Aegon, Arriane, Rolly, Lemore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 28 minutes ago, Faera said: These are some interesting questions and I'd be curious to see some responses from people who have really looked into and thought about this. For me, the impending outbreak of greyscale as always been somewhere at the back on my mind thought I have always been sceptical and to whether it will come into play on a continent level or just a few pockets of it. It would probably only spread like wildfire if it officially became grey death. My money is on pockets rather than full on continental outbreak. As to the underlined, from what we know and what we have seen, it's highly unlikely that it will turn into some highly contagious airborne agent. 28 minutes ago, Faera said: One thing I will say for certain is that Shireen's greyscale will probably come into play."...Hemlock is a sure cure, but a pillow or a blade will work as well. If I had given birth to that poor child, I would have given her the gift of mercy long ago." Val's freak out, to me, indicates that she will be proven right and the wildlings might well kill Shireen if there are some fresh cases of greyscale, whether they come from her or not. "The maesters may believe what they wish. Ask a woods witch if you would know the truth. The grey death sleeps, only to wake again. The child is not clean!" Yeah. I don't know what's gonna happen w/ Shireen's greyscale but something will, for certain. After Dance, and especially after Val's convo w/ Jon about it, it sort of became Tchekov's Greyscale, or Shireen's Gun. : 28 minutes ago, Faera said: What I would probably make of this though is that while Shireen might well be immune to ever dying from greyscale she may be inadvertently passing it to people, leading to an outbreak at some point. Isn't there some talk somewhere of maesters being able to recognise when it goes non-infectious? I don't think Shireen has infected anyone - yet. I have often wondered if a combo of factors could be involved in spreading it... 28 minutes ago, Faera said: We know there is a current outbreak of grey plague in Yi Ti and that Pentos suffered an outbreak several years back that killed Serra. There is not reason to presume a massive outbreak couldn't hit Westeros come from two sources - Shireen, the wildlings and possibly members of Stannis's army in the North, and JonCon in the South. While JonCon is taking precautions to avoid spreading the disease, it would only take one mistake and he risks giving it to Aegon, directly or indirectly by being careless with someone else. Yes, and here especially is where I think s combo of factors are necessary. Not just the greyscale agent (bacteria, virus, whatever) on its own, but associated w/... something else. Environmental, immune-related, magic, any number of things... 28 minutes ago, Faera said: I wonder... aside from children who have already had it, does anyone suppose that there might be people who are naturally immune to Greyscale? Like how there were always some people completely immune to bubonic plague, except maybe more environmental since it is linked to water and dampness. I'd say that's hugely likely. To all super duper deadly bugs out there, you will find individuals who are immune to it. So, it would make sense if the same were true of greyscale. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faera Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, Buell 2K said: She hasn't infected anybody yet. I don't think she will be the source but Faera may have a point. Should the disease strike among the wildlings she will be the first to blame. Someone else may be the carrier but judging Val's attitude, it will be Shireen who gets the blame and the flame from the wildlings. That might be it. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if grey death hasn't already made it south of the Wall from among the wildlings. Shireen is an easy target in the event of an outbreak and her apparent immunity might make the wildlings even more suspicious. Heck, an outbreak of grey death might be the Watch's version of the pale mare where they struggle to figure out where the contagion is coming from. Worse still, with Jon potentially being out of action, there'll be no one there to take measures to stop it from spreading. 34 minutes ago, Buell 2K said: All the men around Jon Connington. Aegon, Arriane, Rolly, Lemore. Could be. It would be an unpleasant end for Aegon's campaign if he and a third of his company contracted greyscale. 21 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: My money is on pockets rather than full on continental outbreak. As to the underlined, from what we know and what we have seen, it's highly unlikely that it will turn into some highly contagious airborne agent. I suppose it would depend on whether we are talking about greyscale by itself or whether an actual outbreak of grey death hits Westeros. Containing the former would be a lot easier than the latter. 31 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Isn't there some talk somewhere of maesters being able to recognise when it goes non-infectious? I don't think Shireen has infected anyone - yet. I have often wondered if a combo of factors could be involved in spreading it... Isn't it only infant cases where it can be stopped? It could be that Shireen really is free from disease and the wildlings are the ones who are misinformed. If they see more cases of greyscale due to their living conditions being more basic, colder and damper than their southern counterparts then they may see more cases and see anyone - even the less fatal infant form - as better to wipe out there and then than risk letting it spread. 35 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Yes, and here especially is where I think s combo of factors are necessary. Not just the greyscale agent (bacteria, virus, whatever) on its own, but associated w/... something else. Environmental, immune-related, magic, any number of things... There is an indication that maybe a waterborne disease, if Tyrion is to be believed. So, drinking or fishing from an infected source could contract it. Then perhaps the disease also appears to be transmitted through bodily fluids (blood, sweat, saliva, semen etc.) In Pentos, when they burned the ships supposedly responsible, it was the rats who apparently brought the disease in still - so, that adds animals as possible carriers - so being bitten by one or eating one could lead to catching it... and we haven't even touched on magic possibly making it more potent, infectious etc... 42 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: I'd say that's hugely likely. To all super duper deadly bugs out there, you will find individuals who are immune to it. So, it would make sense if the same were true of greyscale. IMO. Well, living in a hot and dry climate probably helps! As for preventative for people in "high risk areas", there is that old story about tanners never getting plague because of the natural flea repellant of lavender. So, perhaps there are certain magical auras in some areas that would stop a disease like greyscale from breaking out, or if we go for a more natural notion, some plant or animal in certain waters that stops the disease. I wonder if greyscale is common among the people of the Three Sisters? Or heck, what about the crannogmen?! They live in what could be termed as a "danger zone" for that sort of disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Buell 2K said: We haven't found a cure for cancer and Martin wants to keep it real. There won't be a cure. Except that cancer typically isn't spread through conventional means like touching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Jon Con and Shireen are the carriers of the disease. It's going to be merciless. Many people will catch the disease. Marwyn may know the cure but he's headed out of town. Sarella and Samwell might work together to find a cure. There has to be sand snake with interests outside of killing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Wylla Manderly Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Will it spread in Westeros? Knowing GRRM, an invasion of ice demons and zombie servants is not enough trouble so yes, most likely. Who will start the greyscale epidemic in Westeros? I know Shireen seems like a very obvious answer but I want to say Jon Connington? Shireen was at least somewhat healed (or at least, her infection is dormant at the moment.) Jon Connington is actively infected and will come across many characters in the south. Shireen's condition. Is the greyscale cured or only in partial remission? Partial remission. Wildlings aren't very learned, but they are suprisingly correct at certain things. I believe this is one of those times. Who will find a cure? No one. It will burn itself out eventually, and devastate parts of Westeros. How much of the population will be affected? Mostly the Reach and Stormlands, I imagine. Assuming Jon Con will spread it like I assume, I doubt any of him or the people he infected will make it to the North after winter falls. (They won't be able to.) But they are in the Stormlands at the moment, and I always assumed it would spread to Oldtown as well. I think there was a foreshadow-y passage about that in the books. Is the disease related to the gray, stone beast who will breath shadow fire? Maybe in imagery if we're going by Mel's visions but actually... nah. Do you see any important character getting the disease? Jon Con & Co? Maybe even fAegon. Is this a curse from the turtle worshipers? Like the Rhoynar putting a curse on their enemies. The skin becomes hard like the shell of a turtle. No, I think this is one of the few instances where maesters are right about dismissing legends. How much does Marwyn know of greyscale? Probably a lot more than other maesters, but not enough to fully cure it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordred Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Greyscale happens in damp and cold places. Shireen will spread the disease in the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 If there is a mass outbreak of greyscale, Westeros will not survive the long night. So, no, just based on plot reasons, there will not be a black plague in store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damsel in Distress Posted July 14, 2018 Author Share Posted July 14, 2018 18 hours ago, Leonardo said: If there is a mass outbreak of greyscale, Westeros will not survive the long night. So, no, just based on plot reasons, there will not be a black plague in store. Consider this. Westeros may not survive the long night. The only ones who will survive are the people willing to leave their lands behind to escape to Essos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 I doubt it; Essos will certainly not be safe either, they have 5 times as many legends about the Long Night. That's not outside the realm of possibility, but the series is based in Westeros, and we already know the ending won't be so dark as that 99% of all the characters are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbono Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 I always had somewhat of a Crackpot theory about greyscale... " He was captured in battle, and hung in a cage at Chroyane to see the enslavement of his people. The prince called down a curse upon the conquerors, entreating Mother Rhoyne to avenge her children, and that night the Rhoyne flooded out of season and a thick fog fell upon the river, and the Valyrian conquerors began to die of greyscale. " - So we have a captured prince being "executed" and a magic curse. Comparing this with the wall, i feel like the burning of Shireen will happen, being led by Melisandre and or without Selyse for whatever reason (saving Jon / Stannis / Azor Ahai). So we have a captured princess being executed for the reason of magic. And, as we know, only dead may pay for life, and magic is a sword without a hilt, there will be more then just Shireens death. I feel like afterwards there will be a lot of cases of greyscale at the wall, it won't be clear where it came from "Patchface may go even more crazy and attack people being accused to be the transmitor", the wildings will say "its the curse of Shireen, she should have been killed way earlier" ect. My even more crackpot is: If we look at the people in the cage that Arya sees if i remember correctly they are burned by the sun and have blisters on their skin ect., may well be that Garin the Great had the same problems in his cage, and thereby his contaminated skin led to the infection of the people mocking him. <-> Pretty much the same with Shireen but in a more gruesome way. And to even go further I find the idea interesting, that greyscale will have something to do with the fight against the Others. Like some sort of biological warfare. But since nothing "really" makes sense I never tried to make a Theory out of it, since you asked here is my bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 On 7/10/2018 at 6:50 PM, Faera said: That might be it. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if grey death hasn't already made it south of the Wall from among the wildlings. Shireen is an easy target in the event of an outbreak and her apparent immunity might make the wildlings even more suspicious. Heck, an outbreak of grey death might be the Watch's version of the pale mare where they struggle to figure out where the contagion is coming from. Worse still, with Jon potentially being out of action, there'll be no one there to take measures to stop it from spreading. Um, well, you know Jon had his chance to take measures to stop greyscale. Val's advise. Which sadly may turn out to be a good one. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legitimate_Bastard Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Will it spread in Westeros? - Doubtful Who will start the greyscale epidemic in Westeros? - JonCon if anyone Shireen's condition. Is the greyscale cured or only in partial remission? -Cured Who will find a cure? -Qyburn How much of the population will be affected? - not sure, but I think the Rhoynar descendants living in Dorne may be immune. Is the disease related to the gray, stone beast who will breath shadow fire? I don't think so. Related to the Turtle God/wwater magic Do you see any important character getting the disease? - I can see a Dornish character NOT getting it after exposure that should have contracted the illness Is this a curse from the turtle worshipers? Like the Rhoynar putting a curse on their enemies. The skin becomes hard like the shell of a turtle. - Yes, Garin the Great How much does Marwyn know of greyscale? -More than most I reckon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Will it spread in Westeros? Yes, but I don't think it'll be as we expect. Somehow it'll tie into the Others though I can't say how. A conventional plague would just seem like piling on and out of left field with the main conflict. Who will start the greyscale epidemic in Westeros? Shireen's obvious but I think JonCon or maybe someone else. He knows he's contagious but doesn't care. In the passage below with Pycelle and Val's statement, we see the mass hysteria surrounding it and I think Shireen may be a casualty of the hysteria but not the cause of it. Val showed zero sympathy for Shireen as an innocent child and Jon was very put off shaking off her arm. Makes me think Val and/or the wildlings will jump to conclusions perhaps egged on by Mel and her lust for King's blood. Shireen's condition. Is the greyscale cured or only in partial remission? Val said it's always deadly north of the Wall which is consistent with greyscale being linked to cold and damp. Thinking that Shireen was cured so long as she stayed in a warm dry environment, but in a cold, damp environment (especially if she ends up in the snow and thus cold and damp for a prolonged period), that would be too much. So basically, the Maesters and Wildlings are both right and wrong about greyscale. Who will find a cure? Dunno. If so, I think it might be magical. How much of the population will be affected? Dunno. Is the disease related to the gray, stone beast who will breath shadow fire? No. Think the stone beast was Jon killing the wight in the smoking Lord Commander's tower for which he receives the stone beast of Longclaw which has a stone wolf hilt. He took flight because this moment led to him becoming LC. The NW breathe shadow fire: I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come. But maybe the stone beast of Longclaw is a link to the stonemen of Winterfell... Do you see any important character getting the disease? Tyrion maybe, but I don't think it'll go like we expect because of the Lannister connection to the stonemen. He might fix it like he fixed the drains of Casterly Rock. Is this a curse from the turtle worshipers? Like the Rhoynar putting a curse on their enemies. The skin becomes hard like the shell of a turtle. Yes. See quotes below. The Valyrians despite their manic conquering and lust for gold stayed away from Casterly Rock (connected to greyscale) and had a tragedy at Oldtown, also connected to greyscale. Right in line with Garin's curse. Casterly Rock gold was cursed according to the Valyrians and the timeline for the Doom lines up to the Lannister sword of Brightroar. Interesting that Tywin is drying and hardening here, or turning to stone so to speak. How much does Marwyn know of greyscale? Dunno. It may be out of his wheelhouse. AFFC Jaime I Without his beard, Pycelle looked not only old, but feeble. Shaving him was the cruelest thing Tyrion could have done, thought Jaime, who knew what it was to lose a part of yourself, the part that made you who you were. Pycelle's beard had been magnificent, white as snow and soft as lambswool, a luxuriant growth that covered cheeks and chin and flowed down almost to his belt. The Grand Maester had been wont to stroke it when he pontificated. It had given him an air of wisdom, and concealed all manner of unsavory things: the loose skin dangling beneath the old man's jaw, the small querulous mouth and missing teeth, warts and wrinkles and age spots too numerous to count. Though Pycelle was trying to regrow what he had lost, he was failing. Only wisps and tufts sprouted from his wrinkled cheeks and weak chin, so thin that Jaime could see the splotchy pink skin beneath. "Ser Jaime, I have seen terrible things in my time," the old man said. "Wars, battles, murders most foul . . . I was a boy in Oldtown when the grey plague took half the city and three-quarters of the Citadel. Lord Hightower burned every ship in port, closed the gates, and commanded his guards to slay all those who tried to flee, be they men, women, or babes in arms. They killed him when the plague had run its course. On the very day he reopened the port, they dragged him from his horse and slit his throat, and his young son's as well. To this day the ignorant in Oldtown will spit at the sound of his name, but Quenton Hightower did what was needed. Your father was that sort of man as well. A man who did what was needed." "Is that why he looks so pleased with himself?" The vapors rising from the corpse were making Pycelle's eyes water. "The flesh . . . as the flesh dries, the muscles grow taut and pull his lips upward. That is no smile, only a . . . a drying, that is all." He blinked back tears. "You must excuse me. I am so very tired." Leaning heavily on his cane, Pycelle tottered slowly from the sept. That one is dying too, Jaime realized. Small wonder Cersei called him useless. The World of Ice and Fire - The Westerlands The wealth of the westerlands was matched, in ancient times, with the hunger of the Freehold of Valyria for precious metals, yet there seems no evidence that the dragonlords ever made contact with the lords of the Rock, Casterly or Lannister. Septon Barth speculated on the matter, referring to a Valyrian text that has since been lost, suggesting that the Freehold's sorcerers foretold that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy them. Archmaester Perestan has put forward a different, more plausible speculation, suggesting that the Valyrians had in ancient days reached as far as Oldtown but suffered some great reverse or tragedy there that caused them to shun all of Westeros thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeves Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 On 7/10/2018 at 2:13 PM, Damsel in Distress said: Will it spread in Westeros? yes Who will start the greyscale epidemic in Westeros? yes Shireen's condition. Is the greyscale cured or only in partial remission? remission only Who will find a cure? there is no cure How much of the population will be affected? 10% Is the disease related to the gray, stone beast who will breath shadow fire? ? Do you see any important character getting the disease? Tormund, Val, Selyse, Mellisandre, Jon, Dalla Is this a curse from the turtle worshipers? Like the Rhoynar putting a curse on their enemies. The skin becomes hard like the shell of a turtle. no How much does Marwyn know of greyscale? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Ravens Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 On 7/10/2018 at 11:13 AM, Damsel in Distress said: Will it spread in Westeros? Almost guaranteed I would think. Why else introduce it into the story? Who will start the greyscale epidemic in Westeros? Jon Con has contracted the disease and he is already in Westeros. He has kept it hidden but once he enters into battle scenarios he will come in contact with many people. Shireen's condition. Is the greyscale cured or only in partial remission? I guess I think of it kind of like mumps or measles: children can survive it but adults can't. I guess I think that she has the physical changes to her appearance but isn't contagious to others despite what Val thinks. Perhaps Sam will bring the cure with him when he returns to the wall and cure her, making her a much more attractive heir to house Baratheon. Who will find a cure? Probably brainy old Sam with access to the library at the Citadel. How much of the population will be affected? Probably pockets will break out wherever JonCon goes. Is the disease related to the gray, stone beast who will breath shadow fire? I'm not good at interpreting prophesies but it fits. Do you see any important character getting the disease? It should follow that it effects at least some important characters. Tyrion is a good candidate seeing as he was part of the scenario that lead to Jon Con contracting the disease. Maybe Arianne Martell as well. If Jon Con spreads it around in King's landing it could be almost any important character present in the city at that time. Is this a curse from the turtle worshipers? Like the Rhoynar putting a curse on their enemies. The skin becomes hard like the shell of a turtle. Maybe. I got the impression that Garin, the last Rhoynar prince, created greyscale when he used powerful water magic to flood the Rhoynar and cursed his Valyrian conquerors. How much does Marwyn know of greyscale? He probably knows more than most of the maesters but no one actually knows the cure. Perhaps he will provide insight that allows the discovery of a cure to take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 JC's greyscale will be sexually transmittible, and he will sleep with Daemon Sand who will sleep with Arianne who will sleep with Euron who will second life Drogon which will create the great stone beast. The great stone beast's breath, the shadow flame, will infect those who breathe it with greyscale. The Others will not be able to turn those infected by this greyscale into wights, and so will not hunt these people. This will become known, and thus becoming infected will be seen by some as the way of surviving the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron Lannister Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 On 8/31/2018 at 5:41 PM, Legitimate_Bastard said: Who will find a cure? -Qyburn i really like this one. it would make qyburn such a great charakter. On 8/31/2018 at 5:41 PM, Legitimate_Bastard said: How much of the population will be affected? - not sure, but I think the Rhoynar descendants living in Dorne may be immune. maybe, and i hope so, i don't want arianne's story to end with greyscale after seducing aegon the undead or joncon. her discovering her immunity to greyscale and using it for doran's schemes would be cool to read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.