How did the Night's Watch go wrong?

[Angel Eyes]

And how do you fix it?

[kissdbyfire]

It all went to hell in a handbaskett when it became Westeros' max security penitentiary. Was that a consequence or the cause though?

[Euron III Greyjoy]

It all went wrong when the people of Westeros stopped believing in the Others, and started thinking that the Wildlings where the true threat beyond the wall. For all we know this might have been the Others plan, wait so long without making an appearance that people start to think they are a myth. 

Once everyone started believing that the only threat beyond the wall are a few untrained and unarmed Wildlings, people stopped joining, and eventually realized that they could send their prisoners there, and the Nights Watch were so desperate to get more men that they accepted them. Eventually after many many years this just kind of became the social norm. 

Whilst we don't truly know the tale of the 13th Lord Commander and his Queen, the tale that has been spun probably gave the Nights Watch a pretty bad rep aswell. 

[hodorisfaclessman]

Best you could do is make all major crimes in the realm punished by nightwatch service and as king lead a major combined force north every few years to wipe out wildlings and repair the forts/push back woods near wall etc

Perhaps even make a special dispensation where very  poor knights ,hedgeknights and lordlings  can volunteer to swear to  serve for a set time (say 3-5 years) and be paid a decent sum by the king and then released back to westeros ...a sort of merc  'greywatch' / eveningwatch!! To  suplment the nw

You cant make people belive in the others though

[Tucu]

The day they deposed the rightful Night's King and hid their true purpose as gatekeepers to the land reserved for the old races.

[Kandrax]

And some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. History became legend, legend became myth.

[Giant Ice Spider]

Aegon the Conqueror did a real number on the watch, IMO.

Before the unification, the 6 southern kingdoms would often fight among themselves. Inevitably the victors of these petty wars would end up with common prisoners (not worth a ransom) that they couldn't feed and didn't want to just execute to avoid being branded butchers. The Watch is the perfect place to send these people - they can't fight you again, you don't get a bad name from it, and they can help keep any family members you have there alive.

But once the 7 kingdoms were united, the petty wars wholesale stopped, bar a few rebellions. The Night's Watch is thus manned only by criminals and younger nobles, which isn't enough to sustain them.

As to how to fix the Watch, I don't think it's possible. The Watch shrank an order of magnitude in 300 years, and there's no coming back from that. Sorry if I burst any bubbles.

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

14 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

And how do you fix it?

There's not a quick or easy fix. Knights and 2nd or 3rd sons use to volunteer for the NW throughout Westeros. Now hardly anyone volunteers to join the NW freely. Most are kinda forced to join to get out of being put to death or having a body part cut off. You could only start fixing the NW problems if the whole of Westeros starting thinking of the NW as more of just a jail/prison. 

[zandru]

3 hours ago, Giant Ice Spider said:

Aegon the Conqueror did a real number on the watch, IMO.

Good analysis! Unification of the kingdoms and an end to petty wars would have greatly diminished the number of knights and trained fighting men sent into exile at the Wall.

That, and the other points about forgetting the real danger of the Others, letting humans settle north of the Wall, and assuming said humans were the only real problem.

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

On 7/10/2018 at 6:10 PM, Angel Eyes said:

And how do you fix it?

The watch went wrong when its lord commander recklessly tried to bring his married sister to the wall and away from her husband.  

How do you fix it?  Bowen Marsh is on the right path to do that but the wildlings will complicate things.  First, remove Jon's head and send it to the Boltons to assure them they will not interfere.  Tell the Boltons it was all the work of Jon Snow and none of the officers knew about it.  

[Bernie Mac]

The thing about the Watch is that is has never been attacked by the Others before, we have no idea if a 1,000, 10,000 or even a 100,000 brothers manning the Watch would be enough to stop them. 

We don't even know what stopped them last time, if it was actually physical numbers, magic or they simply stopped. Without knowing how to defeat them it is impossible to stipulate why the Watch has gone wrong. 

 

What we do know is that if the Watch was still 10,000 strong like it was when Aegon conquered the realm there would be no Wildlings let through the Wall, Mance would have been defeated and any of the children, women and general wilding population who made it past the Wall are only alive thanks to the Watch's gradual decay. Maybe it was a good thing. 

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

1 minute ago, Bernie Mac said:

The thing about the Watch is that is has never been attacked by the Others before, we have no idea if a 1,000, 10,000 or even a 100,000 brothers manning the Watch would be enough to stop them. 

We don't even know what stopped them last time, if it was actually physical numbers, magic or they simply stopped. Without knowing how to defeat them it is impossible to stipulate why the Watch has gone wrong. 

 

What we do know is that if the Watch was still 10,000 strong like it was when Aegon conquered the realm there would be no Wildlings let through the Wall, Mance would have been defeated and any of the children, women and general wilding population who made it past the Wall are only alive thanks to the Watch's gradual decay. Maybe it was a good thing. 

That is a good way to look at it.  It is true, peace make people lax.  But it is better than being in a perpetual state of paranoia like a Cold War?  The resources it would take to support a force of 100,000 will be too costly when you consider the number of people who go hungry every day.  

[Angel Eyes]

15 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The watch went wrong when its lord commander recklessly tried to bring his married sister to the wall and away from her husband.  

How do you fix it?  Bowen Marsh is on the right path to do that but the wildlings will complicate things.  First, remove Jon's head and send it to the Boltons to assure them they will not interfere.  Tell the Boltons it was all the work of Jon Snow and none of the officers knew about it.  

I thought the Watch was already wrong when the Lord Commander arrived.

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

12 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

I thought the Watch was already wrong when the Lord Commander arrived.

They had their problems but starting a quarrel with Ramsay over his sister didn't help matters.  

The size of the guarding force adjusts based on the need.  The cost versus the benefit.  The cost of a large standing army at the wall is not justified.  The wildlings raided the north but the economic cost did not justify the expense of maintaining a large, standing army at the wall.   

Jon and Stannis didn't have their hearts in the right place.  Stannis could have taken the black and King's Landing will be more open to help if he agreed to give up his claim.  The Boltons would feel less threatened and they may agree to send more men to the wall.

 

[Chris Mormont]

To fix it, you could make service in the Night's Watch a requirement to become a Knight.  1 year on the wall might do it, thereby you would have younger men trained at arms coming to the Wall and giving it some respectability.  Now it is considered more of a prison than a noble pursuit, especially in the South

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 7/10/2018 at 3:10 PM, Angel Eyes said:

And how do you fix it?

The watch is dwindling because their purpose has been gone for 8000 ears. When their purpose returns, the watch will return 

[Brianstorm]

Who says it went wrong? It's quite possible they started as guards for the Walkers and lost the plot over the centuries.

[Corvo the Crow]

I think whatever the institute, it may outlast whoever found it but it won't last if the reason of it's founding is no longer there. NW was founded in response to the threat from the others but others are gone some 8000 years at the start. 

NW should have been allowed to stand but with a handful of men in a self sufficient way and passing the knowledge that mattered instead of hunting down wildlings that pass the border illegaly.

 

Wildlings case is also curious, why no da king in da norf ever thought of offering them land and safe passage through the wall in exchange for not fealty or taxes but simply not raiding. They are only 40000, gift should be more than enough for them all.