Am I alone in not believing what Littlefinger says about the Vale lords because it seems like it

[The WolfSpider]

Time and time again I see people talking like it's canon that Harlan Hunter is a murderer,  Lyn Corbray is a kid toucher and everything Petyr says about all of them is true. I don't buy it. I think he knows he's on a slippery slope there and isolating Sansa to keep her from possible allies and maybe even relatives.  

 

Lyn Corbray could be a blood relative as well as the best knight in the Vale, so dangerous. 

 

I'm not sure about Harlan Hunter but #4 in succession is a long way to murder to the top from! I think Maester Willamen is to blame myself, trying to get Janyce Hunter nee Frey in there. I also think Petyr most likely has an ally in House Hunter, anyone other than Harlan. I don't think he would be allied with the Freys though. 

TL;DR I don't trust anything derogatory he says about Valemen because he's got motive to lie

[Giant Ice Spider]

In AGOT, Catelyn reflects that Lyn Corbray has shown no interest in women. So it would surprise me if he was straight.

As for Harlan Hunter … I think he's telling the truth again. Sansa is already isolated at the top of a mountain, unable to reveal herself to anyone because as far as everybody's concerned she's a cold-hearted killer.

[Stormking902]

I believe LF about both Lyn Corbray and Harlan Hunter both seem to be exactly what LF claims or else why are they team LF at all, Lyn has an older brother who was just married to a wealthy merchants daughter and will soon produce heirs so thus Lyn gains nothing from LF besides money which if hes such a good knight like hes written he should be able to win a few melees in tournys and win some money. Harlan seems shady and his brothers deaths are suspicious to say the least and Harlan wouldn't be the first noble to murder numerous family memebers to get to the top. LF even tells the truth about Bronze Yohn just not that he would def help her is she presented herself as Sands Stark. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

Myranda Royce also comments on Corbray being gay, though she mentions plump sausages which certainly does not imply children.

[Bernie Mac]

7 hours ago, The WolfSpider said:

Time and time again I see people talking like it's canon that Harlan Hunter is a murderer,  Lyn Corbray is a kid toucher and everything Petyr says about all of them is true. I don't buy it. I think he knows he's on a slippery slope there and isolating Sansa to keep her from possible allies and maybe even relatives.  

Littlefinger never claims Corbray is a pedophile. Liking boys or girls does not necessarily mean you are a pedophile, it is often the language used to say someone likes their own sex.  Fans jumped to the same conclusion when the Princess and the Queen was published and we were told

“They will turn the Red Keep into a brothel. No man’s daughter will be safe, nor any man’s wife. Even the boys … we know what Laenor was.”

but once the Rogue Prince was released everyone realized that the phrase meant Laenor was gay rather than a pedophile. 

Littlefinger is likely outing him as gay rather than a pedo. 

As for the Hunter's, he is speculating, he thinks that the new Lord Hunter will follow his father to the grave and  that it will be one of the two remaining brothers, most likely the youngest. 

7 hours ago, The WolfSpider said:

Lyn Corbray could be a blood relative as well as the best knight in the Vale, so dangerous. 

Why would it matter if he was a blood relative? the guy wants his own brother dead, he is not going to turn on Littlefinger because she is his second or third cousin. 

but I doubt he is a blood relative, Jocelyn married a younger son of the jnr branch of House Royce, I doubt their daughters married Lords and if they did I imagine Cat would have known this. 

7 hours ago, The WolfSpider said:

 

I'm not sure about Harlan Hunter but #4 in succession is a long way to murder to the top from! I think Maester Willamen is to blame myself, trying to get Janyce Hunter nee Frey in there.

wait, unless you know that Janyce Hunter comes before #4 then that makes no sense. 

what makes you suspect the Freys? 

 

[Kandrax]

34 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Littlefinger never claims Corbray is a pedophile. Liking boys or girls does not necessarily mean you are a pedophile, it is often the language used to say someone likes their own sex.  Fans jumped to the same conclusion when the Princess and the Queen was published and we were told

This. I would also add that double standards are here in work.

If word "girls was used, none would assume pedophilia. I think that only three characters can be called pedophiles or child molesters. 

43 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

what makes you suspect the Freys? 

Well... think about it.

[The WolfSpider]

15 hours ago, Kandrax said:

This. I would also add that double standards are here in work.

If word "girls was used, none would assume pedophilia. I think that only three characters can be called pedophiles or child molesters. 

Well... think about it.

Exactly.  They're Freys. Possible motive if Janyce Frey is in line to inherit which seems likely, I'd bet Gilwood's daughter but Eustace is would work; opportunity with a Frey maester. Harlan is a red herring. 

 

As for Lyn there's nothing to rule out him just being a man who prefers knightly pursuits and hanging with the guys. I don't recall him wanting to kill his brother but I do think it was mentioned there's bad blood and his brother may be corrupt & in Petyr's pocket,  it looks that way, which would make it honorable on Lyn's part to feel that way.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

I don't know how long Lyn will stay in line with LF. Or if he's even as in his pocket as LF seems to think.

I do like his connections. Mychel Redfort was his squire, he is now married to Ysilla Royce who is the daughter of Bronze Yohn. After his little display of pulling his sword in the presence of LF and the Lords Declarant, he leaves the Eyrie, and so does Bronze Yohn after he reluctantly gives LF the year he asked for. I think both of them going down the mountain within hours of each other and leaving the other Lords Declarant gives those plenty time to speak and scheme if they wanted to.

[Kandrax]

8 hours ago, The WolfSpider said:

Exactly.  They're Freys. Possible motive if Janyce Frey is in line to inherit which seems likely, I'd bet Gilwood's daughter but Eustace is would work; opportunity with a Frey maester. Harlan is a red herring. 

 

As for Lyn there's nothing to rule out him just being a man who prefers knightly pursuits and hanging with the guys. I don't recall him wanting to kill his brother but I do think it was mentioned there's bad blood and his brother may be corrupt & in Petyr's pocket,  it looks that way, which would make it honorable on Lyn's part to feel that way.

My answer meant  that it is classical "Let's make Freys more evil".

[The WolfSpider]

10 hours ago, Kandrax said:

My answer meant  that it is classical "Let's make Freys more evil".

Sorry, I gave you too much credit lol

 

I would call it weaselly, grasping behavior which is completely inline with their recent history.  Why not try to profit further from all of these various marriages to families outside the Riverlands? If you don't think that weasel Walder Frey thinks like this you need to do a re-read. 

[Bernie Mac]

19 hours ago, The WolfSpider said:

Exactly.  They're Freys.

What exactly does that mean? 

The Freys, pre red wedding, were pretty much an average Westerosi house, they are not the evil villains you want them to be. 

Walder commited an evil act, but he was motivated by revenge to do such a thing, GRRM's writing is a bit more complicated than simply being a simple reason like they're Jews/Freys/ Black

Quote

Possible motive if Janyce Frey is in line to inherit which seems likely, I'd bet Gilwood's daughter but Eustace is would work;

Or she could be a cousin, given that the speculation is on a younger brother suggests that they are next in line and that Gilwood has no living children. 

You have no idea where she is lies in the line of succession, your entire reasoning resides on her last name. 

Quote

 

opportunity with a Frey maester.

The younger brother of Perwyn and slightly older brother of Olyvar and Roslin. He only became a Maester during the war, at what point do you think this plan was formulated given it is incrediably unlikely that Willamen has been home during the war.  

"Five." He ticked them off on fingers plump as sausages. "Ser Perwyn. Ser Benfrey. Maester Willamen, who took his vows last year and now serves Lord Hunter in the Vale. Olyvar, who squired for your son. And Lady Roslin, the youngest.  

Maesters don't get to pick their assignments, they are sent to castles who are in need of Maesters. I guess this grand conspiracy of yours believes they must have killed the previous Maester? 

Quote

Harlan is a red herring. 

He may well be, but it was not Littlefinger who first told Sansa about him

Her new husband seemed to spend more time at the foot of the mountain than he did atop it. He was gone now, had been gone the past four days, meeting with the Corbrays. From bits and pieces of overheard conversations Sansa knew that Jon Arryn's bannermen resented Lysa's marriage and begrudged Petyr his authority as Lord Protector of the Vale. The senior branch of House Royce was close to open revolt over her aunt's failure to aid Robb in his war, and the Waynwoods, Redforts, Belmores, and Templetons were giving them every support. The mountain clans were being troublesome as well, and old Lord Hunter had died so suddenly that his two younger sons were accusing their elder brother of having murdered him  

So in ASOS Sansa has already heard the rumors about House Hunter and later in AFFC Littlefinger offers his take on it, that it the youngest Hunter is responsible. 

Quote

As for Lyn there's nothing to rule out him just being a man who prefers knightly pursuits and hanging with the guys.

Well he's in his mid to late 30's and not married and Littlefinger is not Sansa's only source on his sexuality 

"Do you think if I asked nicely Ser Lyn would kill my suitors for me?"

"He might, for a plump bag of gold." Ser Lyn Corbray was forever desperately short of coin, all the Vale knew that.

"Alas, all I have is a plump pair of teats. Though with Ser Lyn, a plump sausage under my skirts would serve me better."

 

 

Quote

 

I don't recall him wanting to kill his brother but I do think it was mentioned there's bad blood and his brother may be corrupt & in Petyr's pocket,  it looks that way, which would make it honorable on Lyn's part to feel that way.

Lyn is the one in Littlefinger's pocket, he used him to influence the honorable Royce in stepping down. Littlefinger had him draw his sword on purpose so he could bring up the Freys and accuse Royce of acting no better, causing him to reconsider his actions. 

And Littlefinger has arranged his older brother to marry a commoner rather than another noble. Should any accident befall Lyonel it is going to be fairly easy for Lynn to take over the House as the other Vale lords are not going to want commoners amongst them. 

 

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

commenting for later

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

On 7/12/2018 at 4:28 PM, The WolfSpider said:

I'm not sure about Harlan Hunter but #4 in succession is a long way to murder to the top from! I think Maester Willamen is to blame myself, trying to get Janyce Hunter nee Frey in there. I also think Petyr most likely has an ally in House Hunter, anyone other than Harlan. I don't think he would be allied with the Freys though. 

Why would Willamen be trying to get Janyce in line for House Hunter when her husband is second in line to the Twins? 

[The WolfSpider]

1 hour ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Why would Willamen be trying to get Janyce in line for House Hunter when her husband is second in line to the Twins? 

Because the Frey's are greedy and grasping under the Late Walder Frey. 

[The WolfSpider]

On 7/14/2018 at 8:18 AM, Bernie Mac said:

What exactly does that mean? 

The Freys, pre red wedding, were pretty much an average Westerosi house, they are not the evil villains you want them to be. 

Walder commited an evil act, but he was motivated by revenge to do such a thing, GRRM's writing is a bit more complicated than simply being a simple reason like they're Jews/Freys/ Black

Or she could be a cousin, given that the speculation is on a younger brother suggests that they are next in line and that Gilwood has no living children. 

You have no idea where she is lies in the line of succession, your entire reasoning resides on her last name. 

The younger brother of Perwyn and slightly older brother of Olyvar and Roslin. He only became a Maester during the war, at what point do you think this plan was formulated given it is incrediably unlikely that Willamen has been home during the war.  

"Five." He ticked them off on fingers plump as sausages. "Ser Perwyn. Ser Benfrey. Maester Willamen, who took his vows last year and now serves Lord Hunter in the Vale. Olyvar, who squired for your son. And Lady Roslin, the youngest.  

Maesters don't get to pick their assignments, they are sent to castles who are in need of Maesters. I guess this grand conspiracy of yours believes they must have killed the previous Maester? 

He may well be, but it was not Littlefinger who first told Sansa about him

Her new husband seemed to spend more time at the foot of the mountain than he did atop it. He was gone now, had been gone the past four days, meeting with the Corbrays. From bits and pieces of overheard conversations Sansa knew that Jon Arryn's bannermen resented Lysa's marriage and begrudged Petyr his authority as Lord Protector of the Vale. The senior branch of House Royce was close to open revolt over her aunt's failure to aid Robb in his war, and the Waynwoods, Redforts, Belmores, and Templetons were giving them every support. The mountain clans were being troublesome as well, and old Lord Hunter had died so suddenly that his two younger sons were accusing their elder brother of having murdered him  

So in ASOS Sansa has already heard the rumors about House Hunter and later in AFFC Littlefinger offers his take on it, that it the youngest Hunter is responsible. 

Well he's in his mid to late 30's and not married and Littlefinger is not Sansa's only source on his sexuality 

"Do you think if I asked nicely Ser Lyn would kill my suitors for me?"

"He might, for a plump bag of gold." Ser Lyn Corbray was forever desperately short of coin, all the Vale knew that.

"Alas, all I have is a plump pair of teats. Though with Ser Lyn, a plump sausage under my skirts would serve me better."

 

 

Lyn is the one in Littlefinger's pocket, he used him to influence the honorable Royce in stepping down. Littlefinger had him draw his sword on purpose so he could bring up the Freys and accuse Royce of acting no better, causing him to reconsider his actions. 

And Littlefinger has arranged his older brother to marry a commoner rather than another noble. Should any accident befall Lyonel it is going to be fairly easy for Lynn to take over the House as the other Vale lords are not going to want commoners amongst them. 

 

 

I never said they were evil nor did I invoke racism.  There's a clear culture of greedy, grasping behavior, and symbolism, in the current Frey brood despite their noble origins. Indeed it's you Bernie Mac who seems to think that Willamen can't be bad because he's closer in blood to Perwyn than others and that's a bit simplistic.  

 

The examples of Frey grasping behavior is legion and it amazes me that I have to show any but it's clearly stated even the Freys don't trust other Freys, more so if they're not full blood relatives. Walder paid a hefty dowry to get a Frey in Roose's bed. Emmon gripes that he doesn't get Paramountship of the Riverlands. Black Walder screws his patriarch's own wife, may be trying to kill his brother. Legion!

If you think it's a coincidence that Walder Frey now has connections at the Citadel, alchemists in Lys, the Most Devout, the various houses married into (including taking over Riverrun & Darry) and many more with Frey pages & squires you're blind in one eye and not seeing well out of the other.  

Regarding your thoughts on Harlan Hunter & Lyn Corbray..... you might as well have just said yes you buy Littlefinger's song like a wolf taking the bait ( RIP Ned). Oh and of course there's that whole Lyn Corbray pursuing Lysa Arryn for half a year thing.  

 

Just a thought:  say Lyn didn't pull his sword for the reason given.  What would be the 2nd most likely reason?

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

21 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

Because the Frey's are greedy and grasping under the Late Walder Frey. 

Hmmm,  but not when he stands to inherit the twins.  I mean it just doesn't make sense. What textual evidence is there? What clues as to their motivation baring in mind she's married to the man who is 2nd in line to the Twins. Not some no lands younger son of a younger son. But eldest son of the direct heir. No I don't buy it. 

 

[Bernie Mac]

30 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

Because the Frey's are greedy and grasping under the Late Walder Frey. 

Are they? Walder has is ancient, he has been the Lord of the Twins for the entirety of the 60 year old Hoster's life. And yet it does not appear he has done anything like you are suggesting before, no one suspects him of doing something similar and more importantly it would be idiotic. He has many heirs, him encouraging poisoning and killing to jump up the ladder only puts his life in danger. 

It is one thing for a none Lord to come up with that plan, the obvious dangers to themself don't seem clear, but when Walder starts telling his own descendants to kill Lords to move up the ladder he only acting like a Turkey voting for Christmas. 

 

9 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

I never said they were evil nor did I invoke racism. 

I didn't say you did, I pointed out what you were doing is no different to the the type of lazy law enforcement that has happened throughout history. 

Despite the fact that there is zero suggestion in the books that the Maester killed Lord Hunter, despite the fact that you have no idea where Jance is in the line of succession (or even if she is in the line of succession, from what we have seen many women married into other Houses are removed from the line of succession) you have seen that there was  Frey  possibly staying at the House and have decided that Willamen, a character you know nothing about, must be guilty because of his last name. You can replace the word Frey with Black or Jew and you'd have many law enforcers throughout history making the same lazy assumption. 

9 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

There's a clear culture of greedy, grasping behavior, and symbolism, in the current Frey brood despite their noble origins.

What you are describing is the noble world, their society is built on greed and grasping for more as well as status. Hoster didn't choose to rebel against the House that gave his family power out of the kindness of his heart, he did it because his price was matched. 

9 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

Indeed it's you Bernie Mac who seems to think that Willamen can't be bad because he's closer in blood to Perwyn than others and that's a bit simplistic.  

lol at no point have I claimed he can't be bad, please check out Frey threads, I often point out the ridiculousness of people claiming that the Rosby -Freys are good just because the fandom like three of their members, the fact that Bennfrey (Rosby) Frey participated at the Red Weddiing prices that. 

My point is that you know nothing about the character, much like I do, you don't even know if he was actually present when Hunter was killed, all you have heard is who his family is to come up with your conclusion, nothing more. 

9 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

 

The examples of Frey grasping behavior is legion

Cool, list 10 examples of them

9 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

Walder paid a hefty dowry to get a Frey in Roose's bed.

eh? You do understand that all noble father's pay dowries, right? 

In that situation Roose is the greedy one as he picked the fattest Frey to get the best price. 

9 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

Emmon gripes that he doesn't get Paramountship of the Riverlands.

Yup, that is more down to his ignorance of the situation given that for the last 300 years whoever has ruled Riverrun has ruled the Riverlands. 

In actual fact you will find many readers who came to the same conclusion that Emmon did, there are many who don't realize that Littlefinger is the new Lord Paramount. 

9 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

Black Walder screws his patriarch's own wife, may be trying to kill his brother. Legion!

Sex is not greedy or grasping behavior

9 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

If you think it's a coincidence that Walder Frey now has connections at the Citadel,

He has a large family, some of those suns have been sent to the Citadel of the Faith. 

From what we are told Maesters have no say in which House they are sent to, it is more about pot luck on which House actually needs a Maester at the given time. 

Walder would have had to not have killed the previous Maester but willing to kill all the people infront of Janyce. 

And here is the kicker, Edwyn would only be the husband of the ruler of Longbow Hall, Jancye would be the actual ruler and considering that her husband could not control her at the Twins why do you think he would be able to do it in the Vale when the Hunter knights and soldiers are  going to be loyal to her. 

9 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

alchemists in Lys,

lol do you think Walder has some plan to take over Lys? That is some long con you are imagining here. 

9 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

 

the Most Devout, the various houses married into (including taking over Riverrun & Darry) and many more with Frey pages & squires you're blind in one eye and not seeing well out of the other.  

All Houses send their sons out as wards, pages and squires. None of the above is any different to how the vast majority of houses act. 

 

9 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

Regarding your thoughts on Harlan Hunter & Lyn Corbray.....

They are not my thoughts, they are the thoughts of the people in the Vale. 

Sansa has more than one source of information in the Vale, Myranda Royce has no reason to lie to her.

9 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

 

you might as well have just said yes you buy Littlefinger's song like a wolf taking the bait ( RIP Ned). Oh and of course there's that whole Lyn Corbray pursuing Lysa Arryn for half a year thing. 

lol do you think he was perusing her because he had romantic feelings for her?  Seriously? 

None of her suitors, no matter their sexual persuasion, were perusing the woman who ruled the Vale out of anything other than ambition. 

9 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

Just a thought:  say Lyn didn't pull his sword for the reason given.  What would be the 2nd most likely reason?

I'm not following.

[The WolfSpider]

You didn't follow quite a bit, obviously.  The question was plain english. If you need more time to think just say so.

 

You asked for ten examples then proceeded to go through the list of examples I had already given handing out sorry excuses for rebuttals. 

 

Sure Roose chose the by heftiest dowry...as Walder intended.  The man plays the game fairly well. The game of thrones I mean,  perhaps you've heard of it? Oh that's right you don't think the Frey's play it. They are saints to read your words lol. Few have profited from the W5K more than they and as well few have tainted their reputations more yet you think it far-fetched to call them greedy and grasping! 

 

But then you also say committing adultery with a woman married to your great-grandfather is just sex. No , it shows the prevailing mentality at the Crossing which you can see more of when Big & Little Walder talk about things at the Twins in front of Maester Luwin. 

 

Consider as well: 

Robett: Do you think he means to betray us to the Lannisters, my lady?
Catelyn: He has an old man's caution and a young man's ambition, and has never lacked for cunning.^[5]

- Robett Glover and Catelyn Stark

 

...and this before the Red Wedding.  

 

I'm sorry but you're arguments are tepid and trivial and I'm not interested in spending any more time trying to educate you.  

[Bernie Mac]

18 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

You didn't follow quite a bit, obviously.  The question was plain english. If you need more time to think just say so.

Come on, you made up a vague theory based on little more than a person's last name. 

 

18 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

 

You asked for ten examples then proceeded to go through the list of examples I had already given handing out sorry excuses for rebuttals. 

You claimed the examples were legion and then went on to bring up sex as an example.  It is not my fault you come up with examples that don't make sense. 

18 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

 

Sure Roose chose the by heftiest dowry...as Walder intended.

eh? Surely Walder would have preferred it if he picked a slimmer bride. 

The fact that Walder's dowry was so generous  kind of goes against your claim that Walder is so greedy. 

18 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

 

 

  The man plays the game fairly well. The game of thrones I mean,  perhaps you've heard of it? Oh that's right you don't think the Frey's play it.

eh? Where in my response did I claim they didn't.  The majority of Houses play the Game of Thrones at some level. With that in mind then every single House who have married a Hunter is a suspect in Lord Hunter's death. 

I am at least responding to your points rather than inventing points you did not make. 

18 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

 

They are saints to read your words lol.

Where have I claimed that? 

18 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

Few have profited from the W5K more than they

that is certainly true, but that only happens come the Red Wedding, an event that happens, according to the author, because of revenge  not greed

 knowing old Lord Walder's character, it is likely he would have searched for some way to disentangle himself from a losing cause sooner or later, but his desertion would likely have taken a less savage form. The Red Wedding was motivated by his desire to wash out the dishonor that was done him...

 

Before the Red Wedding the Freys had not actually done that great out of the War of the Five Kings

18 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

 

and as well few have tainted their reputations more yet you think it far-fetched to call them greedy and grasping! 

Good god, you have issues. 

I feel it far fetched to call a character we know nothing about, other than who his relatives are,  a murderer based on nothing more than his (former) last name.

I was commenting on how weak your assumption. It was not the only thing you got wrong, you wrongly thought that the only sources for Harlan being the murderer or Lyn being gay were from Littlefinger when in fact there are other sources for those. 

I also pointed out that no in the books calls Lyn a pedophile. You made a lot of wrong assumptions in your opening post, please don't get so sensitive when others try to point them out., 

18 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

 

But then you also say committing adultery with a woman married to your great-grandfather is just sex.

Nope, I said it has little to do with ambition. Quite the opposite in fact as getting caught is liable for Black Walder to lose everything. 

Black Walder gains nothing of value by having sex with his great grandfather's wife, sometimes sex is its own reward. 

18 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

 

 

...and this before the Red Wedding.  

That is not about greed, it is about what is best for his House, going to war with the Crown is not in any House's best interest, especially for Hoster Tully who openly mocks the Freys. 

18 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

 

I'm sorry but you're arguments are tepid and trivial and I'm not interested in spending any more time trying to educate you.  

lol that would carry more weight if you actually just said that rather than actually write out a post and then claim you were no longer interested in replying.

[The WolfSpider]

I said I don't believe Littlefinger and I think Willamen the true murderer. No theory,  no assumption. 

 

Point of fact:  you are responding to points I did not make. I never claimed it was the sex that that made it greedy or grasping that's purely a fabrication on your part, one which you deny and yet keep perpetuating. It's the inherent grasping nature of having sex with a married woman. He wants the ego gratification.  He could pay a whore if he just wanted plain ol' sex. He didn't,  he wants to be acquisitive, he wants to weasel in there. There's a reason weasel/stoat/ermine imagery keeps being used in relation to the Freys but it's all just out of your mental grasp unfortunately.  

 

But I was wrong.  Watching you chase your tail is actually fun.