Danys the good guy?

[The Commentator]

On 7/12/2018 at 10:47 PM, Mordred said:

I think you mistake who the sociopath is.  Arya is the sociopath.  

There is nothing wrong with Dany's ambition to take back the kingdom that her family built.  It is no different if a Stark wanted to take back Winterfell.  Sure, the Targaryens lost but the rightful king escaped and was crowned, King Viserys.  Daenerys is his heir.  If you want to argue right of conquest taking away property then we need to consider that the Starks rebelled and lost.  It doesn't matter how the Starks lost, they lost, and they lost badly.  Eddard already gave a public confession to treason.  Dany has as much claim to the seven kingdoms as the Starks have to Winterfell.

 

On 7/13/2018 at 3:56 AM, hodorisfaclessman said:

Nothing wrong bar the sheer carnage it would unleash in trying to retake it ! A kingdom thats had a generation  without targ rule and did just fine ,one danys never even set foot on yet will destroy all in her path to retake ...bottom line its not her home and never was

The starks by contrast at least can point to winterfell as the place they grew up 

 

And you think retaking Winterfell will not result in carnage!  

Mordred is right on this.  Daenerys has as much if not more rights to Westeros as the Starks have to Winterfell.   Let's make a deal.  The Starks will forget about Winterfell and the North.  They will make do with what they have now and don't present any claims to Winterfell and the North.  In return, Daenerys will stay in Essos and forget about her claim to Westeros.  That is more than fair.  

[hodorisfaclessman]

3 hours ago, Unacosamedarisa said:

Except, Dany didn't know that was how the Dothraki worked. She thought she had Drogo's true heir in her womb, and that the Khalasar would follow him, should Drogo die...

So, by Dany's reckoning, she has the next Khal in her belly. When Drogo denied her the Iron Throne, a Sociopath would have at least started thinking about offing Drogo and putting her son in charge. But Dany didn't. Why didn't she, if she's such a Sociopath, who forfeits anyone who opposes her? 

And the millions of slaves? Literal millions of them she wishes to free? You conveniently ignore them here.

She still has a claim. Just because her family were deposed and she went into exile, it doesn't eradicate her claim. As Son of Man says above, it's normal to want back what your family built. Doesn't make her a bad person... especially because she thinks Westeros is currently being ruled by bad people, and that she would be a good person to rule Westeros. 

No, it's not. Compare her to medieval/feudal rulers instead, it's what she's the equivalent to, and we're discussing medieval/feudal successions and claims and rights, not modern nation states... or do you just want to throw around that Dany's as bad as Saddam and Assad etc.? 

 she was afraid of viserys let alone drogo  so again unlikely shed try and kill him (again not possible anywau  shes got no posion acess and the mans unkillable in personal combat and they are never really  100% alone anyway )

 

She wished to free slaves....we discussed this as one of her few good points

 

Same mentality ..that all life is forgeit to secure their throne 

[The Commentator]

On 7/13/2018 at 9:12 AM, SeanF said:

Entirely correct.

Daenerys as she is portrayed in the Show is much closer to being a sociopath, but I'd say that reflects poor writing on the part of the producers.

It's not so much poor writing.  It's biased writing.  

[hodorisfaclessman]

1 minute ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

And you think retaking Winterfell will not result in carnage!  

Mordred is right on this.  Daenerys has as much if not more rights to Westeros as the Starks have to Winterfell.   Let's make a deal.  The Starks will forget about Winterfell and the North.  They will make do with what they have now and don't present any claims to Winterfell and the North.  In return, Daenerys will stay in Essos and forget about her claim to Westeros.  That is more than fair.  

Far far less carnage in retaking one castle in one realm that the entire kingdom and again winterfell is the starks home  ie where they literaly grew up danys never been nor remembers westeros  

Its veru different to want the 2 back

[The Commentator]

Just now, hodorisfaclessman said:

Less carnage inretaling one castle in one realm that the entire kingdom and again winterfell is the starks home danys never been nor remembers westeros

Westeros belongs to Dany as much, if not more so, than Winterfell belongs to the Starks.  Winterfell is within the boundaries of Westeros, so technicall Winterfell also belongs to her.  

Viserys was crowned on Dragonstone by Queen Rhaella.  Rhaegar was disinherited by his father, King Aerys II.  The crown and the right to rule the kingdom passed to Viserys and then to Daenerys.  

[Unacosamedarisa]

Just now, hodorisfaclessman said:

she was afraid of viserys let alone drogo  so again unlikely shed try and kill him (again not possible anywau  shes got no posion acess and the mans unkillable in personal combat and they are never really  100% alone anyway )

.....

Same mentality ..that all life is forgeit to secure their throne 

You contradict yourself. She doesn't even consider killing Drogo, never even entered her mind. Yet you claim that her mentality is "all life is forfeit to secure the throne". 

IF she was a Sociopath, who considers everyone forfeit for her throne as you claim, she'd have thought of killing Drogo (even if she had no access to poison etc., she'd have started making plans). But she didn't. She also didn't consider killing many people who stood in her way, opposed her, etc. You can't support the claim that everyone in her way was forfeit, just like you can't support the claim that she's a Sociopath.  

Quote

danys never been nor remembers westeros 

It's still her home, the Kingdom her family forged. She was born in Westeros, then forced into exile. 

[hodorisfaclessman]

2 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Westeros belongs to Dany as much, if not more so, than Winterfell belongs to the Starks.  Winterfell is within the boundaries of Westeros, so technicall Winterfell also belongs to her.  

Viserys was crowned on Dragonstone by Queen Rhaella.  Rhaegar was disinherited by his father, King Aerys II.  The crown and the right to rule the kingdom passed to Viserys and then to Daenerys.  

Nope her family arrived there long after the starks had been rulers in winterfell for centuries or possibly longer

The point is more that the starks are trying to reclaim their actual home.....danys by contrast is willing to potentialy kill far more for somewhere she has never set foot on

[hodorisfaclessman]

2 hours ago, Unacosamedarisa said:

You contradict yourself. She doesn't even consider killing Drogo, never even entered her mind. Yet you claim that her mentality is "all life is forfeit to secure the throne". 

IF she was a Sociopath, who considers everyone forfeit for her throne as you claim, she'd have thought of killing Drogo (even if she had no access to poison etc., she'd have started making plans). But she didn't. She also didn't consider killing many people who stood in her way, opposed her, etc. You can't support the claim that everyone in her way was forfeit, just like you can't support the claim that she's a Sociopath.  

It's still her home, the Kingdom her family forged. She was born in Westeros, then forced into exile. 

Tens of thousands are potentialy forfeit for her 'rightful claim' ..the fact she didnt consider killing her main meal ticket to power (something that would have gotten her killed in the attempt anyway not ruler)  doesnt alter the fact the smallfolk who jorah has already rightfully told her dont care are all  potential collateral damage to her ambitions

 

Its not her home she never grew up there she has no emotional connections or memories of it ...making her desire to unleash the dothraki to retake it far darker than the starks wanting revenge for the father they actuualy were raised by and the home they actualy grew up in

[Hugorfonics]

12 hours ago, Leonardo said:

Nah I loved em broheim, I just was on my phone and didn't realize there were like buttons now haha

Oh awesome, happy to hear. I feel like ive been defending this lady for like a decade. Ive been getting good at it

2 hours ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

Tens of thousands are potentialy forfeit for her 'rightful claim' ..the fact she didnt consider killing her main meal ticket to power (something that would have gotten her killed in the attempt anyway not ruler)  doesnt alter the fact the smallfolk who jorah has already rightfully told her dont care are all  potential collateral damage to her ambitions

"It's a sin and a shame," an old man hissed. "When the old king was still alive, he'd not have stood for this.

"King Robert?" Arya asked, forgetting herself.

"King Aerys, gods grace him," the old man said, too loudly

 

The smallfolk kinda care.

2 hours ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

Its not her home she never grew up there she has no emotional connections or memories of it ...making her desire to unleash the dothraki to retake it far darker than the starks wanting revenge for the father they actuualy were raised by and the home they actualy grew up in

Robb never set foot in the neck or met a crangorman in his life, but hes still born to be in control of it. 

Im not saying Dany is sane. She walks into a pyre for gods sake, but feudalism in its self is crazy. Dany tries to make the best of it though.

 

"I was alone for a long time, Jorah. All alone but for my brother. I was such a small scared thing. Viserys should have protected me, but instead he hurt me and scared me worse. He shouldn't have done that. He wasn't just my brother, he was my king. Why do the gods make kings and queens, if not to protect the ones who can't protect themselves?"

"Some kings make themselves. Robert did."

"He was no true king," Dany said scornfully. "He did no justice. Justice . . . that's what kings are for."

(Also Robbs war wasnt revange. It was to free Sansa and be acknowledged as king in the north)