Harrenhall

[Captain howdy]

So reading back the the books AGAIN... A small question has been nagging at me. I know all the threads asking what happened to lady whent... but i think the real question is. Why did she turn over harrenhall in the first place. I know it says for lack of men to defend it.. but seriously its harrenhall who could take it.. the walls are meng to be to high for ladders and thick for a trebuchet to do any damage... just barr the gates sit out the war.. 

Maybe old lady whent made a deal with the Lannisters. But if she did that went to crap considering how they gave her castle away

 

Thoughts?

[hodorisfaclessman]

Men can still scale,dig, smash gates etc 

If you dont habe the men to defend it its pointless

[Nittanian]

George hasn't explained what happened to the Whents during Robert's Rebellion and its aftermath, but Shella is described as "Lady Whent, last of her line, who dwelt with her ghosts in the cavernous vaults of Harrenhal" (AGOT Catelyn V). Edmure calls the banners (AGOT Eddard XI), so Harrenhal presumably sends a contingent west to Riverrun. Jaime is then victorious below the Golden Tooth and at Riverrun, capturing Edmure. Meanwhile, Tywin and Kevan lead a second host through the riverlands. With Riverrun besieged and without knowing that Robb is marching to the rescue, it's possible that a weary Shella simply decides to surrender Harrenhal when Tywin shows up. 

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

Maybe Lannisters wouldn't have been able to take the castle even with superior numbers. But a siege has more dangers than just soldiers scaling walls and trying to get inside. I always assumed that Harrenhal was caught by surprise, and if there happened to be a long siege, those inside the castle would eventually starve. Based on what we know of Harrenhal, Lady Whent probably wasn't that fond of the place anyway.

[fire&blood]

3 hours ago, Captain howdy said:

So reading back the the books AGAIN... A small question has been nagging at me. I know all the threads asking what happened to lady whent... but i think the real question is. Why did she turn over harrenhall in the first place. I know it says for lack of men to defend it.. but seriously its harrenhall who could take it.. the walls are meng to be to high for ladders and thick for a trebuchet to do any damage... just barr the gates sit out the war.. 

Maybe old lady whent made a deal with the Lannisters. But if she did that went to crap considering how they gave her castle away

 

Thoughts?

To quote the Ned.....a castle is only as strong as the men who defend it.

[Dorian Martell's son]

oops 

[Captain howdy]

Ok i spoze i can live with waht your all saying. Its just the way they make out harrenhall in the books its nigh inpregnabull..

[Megorova]

I think, that Lady Whent gave Harrenhal to Lannisters under condition, that it will be given to Littlefinger. Because Littlefinger is (possibly) also a Whent.

From LF's history, it is known, that his great grandfather was a sellsword from Braavos. I think, that that sellsword's father was member of Golden Company, founder of House Whent, and first Lord Whent. He was the Bastard of Harrenhal.

Aegon IV's first mistress was Falena Stokeworth. When their affair was discovered, Falena was forced to marry with Lucas Lothston. Then, to remove her from royal court, Aegon's father, Viserys II, persuaded his brother, Aegon III, to name Lucas Lord of Harrenhal, for the two of them to move to Harrenhal, away from King's Landing. Years later, Falena's daughter, Jeyne Lothston, became Aegon's eight mistress. Aegon made Lucas his Hand, and brought Falena back to court. There were rumours, that Jeyne was Aegon's daughter. In 178 AC Jayne was removed from court, together with her mother, this time for good.

In 193 AC Arlan of Pennytree has defeated the Bastard of Harrenhal, at a tourney in King's Landing. At the same event he also defeated Lord Lothston.

From ASOIAF-wikia:

Quote

The Lothstons of Harrenhal had a bad reputation; Lord Lucas Lothston and his son Manfryd were renowned for their black deeds.^[2] According to Ser Eustace Osgrey, Manfred Lothston betrayed Daemon Blackfyre in the First Blackfyre Rebellion.^[8] Lady Danelle Lothston, called Mad Danelle, was said to send giant bats out to capture children for her cookpots, to have bathed in blood and feasted on flesh.^[9] When Lord Bloodraven marched on the wedding tourney at Whitewalls to quash the Second Blackfyre Rebellion in 211 AC, among the river lords who came in support was Lady Danelle.^[10]

The downfall of House Lothston came when Danelle turned to the black arts, causing chaos.^[6] The last Lothston was killed with the help of an ancestor of Ser Illifer the Penniless in unknown circumstances.^[2] After the line ended during the reign of King Maekar I Targaryen, the lordship of Harrenhal was given to House Whent, knights who had first served the Lothstons but then helped to defeat the mad family.^[6]Ben Blackthumb worked as a boy for Lord Lothston and later for the grandfather and father of Lady Shella Whent.^[11]

Based on this information, it seems, that maybe Manfryd and Manfred Lothston, son of Lucas Lothston, and the one who first sided with Daemon I Blackfyre, but then betrayed him, is the same person. And also, could be, that it was this Manfred/Manfryd, the Lord Lothston, that was defeated by Ser Arlan.

So I think, that the Bastard of Harrenhal was son of Jeyne Lothston and Aegon IV. At tournament at King's Landing, Ser Arlan defeated Manfryd/Manfred Lothston, and his bastard-nephew.

Sigil of House Lothston is a black bat on silver and gold field. Sigil of House Whent is nine black bats on yellow field.

"The Whents were originally knights in the service of the Lothstons. When Lady Danelle Lothston went mad during the reign of King Maekar I Targaryen, the Whents received Harrenhal for their role in defeating the Lothstons.^[5] House Whent is a fairly young house, Ben Blackthumb having smithed for Lothstons.^[6] "

Originally Whents were knights, that served to House Lothston. So I think, that the Bastard of Harrenhal, son of Jayne Lothston, the one that participated in tournament at King's Landing, was a knight, and he served to his mother's relatives - Lothstons. But, same as bastard half-brother of Aegon I Targaryen, Orys Baratheon, this bastard, who was also a son of Targaryen (Aegon IV), same as Orys, he founded his own House - House Whent, and used black bat, from his mother's sigil, as his own. Though he took 9 bats, instead of one, showing to Lothstons, that he is superior to them, because he is son of Aegon IV Targaryen, and they are mere lords.

I think, that it was him, who convinced his uncle, Manfryd Lothston, to side with Blackfyres against Targaryens. Though later Manfryd changed his mind, and went back to Targaryen side. Based on time frame, it seems, that Danele Lothston probably was Manfryd's daughter, and that the Bastard was great grandfather of Shella Whent:

Falene Stokeworth and Lucas Lothston married in 151. So in 193, Lucas Lothston was already too old, to participate in tournaments. Thus Lord Lothston, that was defeated by Ser Arlan, was Lucas' son, Manfryd Lothston. At that time Manfryd was approximately 41-42 years old (193 - 151), or younger. And his bastard-nephew was approximately 14-15 years old (193 - 178 (the year, when Jayne was sent away from court, probably because she was pregnant), in 178 Jayne was 14 years old, so she was born in 164 or close to that). Officially Manfryd and Jayne were brother and sister, thought actually they were only half-siblings, thru their mother. They were from the same generation, so their children were also of about the same age. Though the Bastard was probably several years younger than Manfryd's children, because his mother was very young, when he was born (she was 14 or 15 years old). So his cousin, Danelle Lothston, was born sometime after 178. Manfryd betrayed Daemon I during First Blackfyre Rebellion (in 196), and Danelle supported Bloodraven and Targaryens during Second Blackfyre Rebellion (in 211), 15 years later. In 211 the Bastard was approximately 33 years old, and Danelle was a bit younger. My guess, is that Danelle wasn't a witch, and she didn't became mad. The rumors about her were spread by the Bastard, because he wanted to get Harrenhal from Danelle, and to become Lord of Harrenhal. Eventually his plan did succeded. Though probably it wasn't enough for him, and he, as son of Aegon IV, wanted to have more power, than a mere Lord of Harrenhal. Thus eventually he took part in Rebellions of Blackfyres, supported them against Targaryens, has joined Golden Company, and eventually fathered a son in Braavos. This child was great grandfather of Littlefinger, and half-brother of Shella's grandfather. So LF is Shella's second cousin once removed, and her only relative (Cat and Lysa were LF's third cousins. Hair of Danelle Lothston was red, same as Minisa Whent's (wife of Hoster Tully), and her daughters. So this could be a prove/hint, that Lothstons and Whents are bloodrelated).

Out of all of Shella's relatives - Edmur Tully and his child are hostages of Lannisters and Freys; Cat is dead; Lysa is dead; Bran and Rickon are also supposedly dead; Robb is dead; Jon Snow isn't bloodrelated to Whents; Arya is missing; Sansa is also missing, and in addition to that, if she will be ever found, most likely, she will also die, because Lannisters blame her in Joffrey's death; so that leaves Littlefinger and Lysa's son Robert Arryn. Littlefinger was Lysa's husband, and now he is Robert's guardian. 

Shella Whent wanted Harrenhal to stay in the family, so she arranged its transfer to LF, and he became new Lord of Harrenhal. Maybe she hoped, that eventually that castle will pass to Robert Arryn, who is 25% Whent, thru his maternal grandmother, Minisa Whent.

[The WolfSpider]

I'm absolutely sure they're related.  The first lord Whent most likely married a daughter of Lothston and that's why they use the bats sigil. It happens all the time.