Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Mexal said: This is absolutely insane. They are USA citizens. Whoa. This should be getting way more attention, so for those who have forgotten or don’t recognize that name, here’s a quick recap: Bill Browder is a business man who got banned from Russia, at some point, though I can’t recall off of the top of my head, he had his Russian lawyer, Sergei Magnitsky, investigate what was going on with his businesses. Magnitsky was later arrested and died in prison, likely at the hand of Putin’s thugs. This led to Browder lobbying Congress and other foreign governments to pass a law called The Magnitsky Act. The Magnitsky Act basically blocked access to a ton of money owned by Russian oligarchs, and thus Putin. Since then Putin’s cronies have been trying to find a way to undo it. The lawyer Don Jr. and Jared met with it Trump Tower was there to lobby for the end of The Magnitsky Act. This is all about Putin’s money, since you guys were on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 47 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said: I know we all get tired of saying it, but please, someone, anyone, tell me he is not that fucking stupid eta: I really need a less happy avatar If you want to stay witchy but need more of a glare I highly recommend something of Granny Weatherwax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, IamMe90 said: Yeah, no, you're right, it's about more than wealth. However, that is still a far cry from reducing his position to "representing his country." I think any motivations he has for wanting to increase Russia's stance in the world are inherently self-interested, whether they be amassing power, wealth, or whatever. He's like Napoleon and many other before and after. In the end, it is all about them being numero uno and running everything. That sure as hell never stopped them from personally plundering whatever they could from wherever they could and taking personal possession of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Just saw a compialtion of Republicans praising Trump for his remarks yesterday and admitting his mistake. The Republican party is a domestic terrorist orginization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Frank Rich: "... a conscious tool ..." http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/frank-rich-trumps-plot-against-america.html Quote I’d argue that Trump’s motivation for advancing Putin’s interests is not just because the Kremlin likely has the goods on him but also because Trump genuinely believes in the Russian Way. The more we’ve seen of him in office, the more it’s apparent that he does have a consistent ideology, after all, albeit one that aligns more with Putin (and at times Kim Jong-un) than America’s major political parties. Trump’s embrace of nationalist and white-supremacist authoritarianism can be found in his public statements and actions dating back at least as far as the incendiary racist newspaper ads he took out during the 1989 Central Park Five rape case. Each day this president stays in office advances his mission further. . . . The Mueller report, whatever it is and whenever it lands, is likely to trigger an aggressive White House pushback that will make Richard Nixon’s efforts to defy the Constitution during Watergate’s endgame look like amateur night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Kalbear said: He's still an innately selfish person, mind you, and I think he believes that him being the head of Russia is a glorious thing, and equates Russian success to his success. But I don't think it's purely economic forces which motivate him. Well yeah, sure. If he was solely interested in economics/the oligarchy, he would have let Medvedev take over a decade ago. It's obviously a cult of personality thing with he's bought into himself. Which is why he understands Trump so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 23 minutes ago, Zorral said: The more we’ve seen of him in office, the more it’s apparent that he does have a consistent ideology, after all, albeit one that aligns more with Putin (and at times Kim Jong-un) than America’s major political parties. Trump’s embrace of nationalist and white-supremacist authoritarianism Yeah this is why Frank Rich doesn't understand basic political concepts. Authoritarianism isn't an ideology, it's a more thorough way to control the political system. Totalitarianism is an ideology insofar as using that absolute power to enact and exact an agenda. Trump is an authoritarian, but he's incapable of realizing a totalitarian regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I wonder what the over/under is for days until Trump straight up says Democrats hate America and want to kill all of us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said: I wonder what the over/under is for days until Trump straight up says Democrats hate America and want to kill all of us? Dude called the press the enemy of the people within like, two weeks of his presidency. I'm pretty sure he has said Dems hate America, and it's surprising he hasn't said they want to kill us all. Hell, Bush and his GOP already did this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, DMC said: Dude called the press the enemy of the people within like, two weeks of his presidency. I'm pretty sure he has said Dems hate America, and it's surprising he hasn't said they want to kill us all. Hell, Bush and his GOP already did this. Did they? I didn't get into politics until '06 so I'm sure I missed a lot. Anyways, I'd put the over/under a week before Election Day. Trump's been sinking in that particular quicksand for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said: Did they? I didn't get into politics until '06 so I'm sure I missed a lot. Jean Schmidt and John Murtha. Saxby Chambliss and Max Cleland. Damn kids these days, mumbles lawn mumbles. Anyway, one comment on @Free Northman Reborn's much maligned statement that Putin "merely" practices Realpolitik. You're not wrong, but you're also subscribing some type of admiration for a concept that deserves none and explains little of his behavior. There's nothing special about realpolitik - its modern day equivalent in political science is rational choice models, be it game or decision-theoretic. Now I could talk all day about what rational choice actually entails, but the point is it emphasizes self-interest and pragmatism over moralistic and ideological concerns. After Nixon, it's actually apparent that Democratic presidents have acted according to such a precept far more than Republicans regarding foreign policy (sans Bush I). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, DMC said: Jean Schmidt and John Murtha. Saxby Chambliss and Max Cleland. Damn kids these days, mumbles lawn mumbles. You're only a few posts away from talking to an empty chair..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Just now, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said: You're only a few posts away from talking to an empty chair..... NEVER compare me to that overrated fuckface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, DMC said: NEVER compare me to that overrated fuckface. which overrated fuckfaces can we compare you to asking for a friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Kalbear said: which overrated fuckfaces can we compare you to You. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 The Trafalgar Group, a GOP leaning firm with..unique methodology, has Manchin up 49.9 to 39.5 against Morrisey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 The New York Times has a long and interesting article about George Soros. Here are some tidbits: Quote During the late 1980s and early 1990s, Soros also cultivated a number of young activists he believed could advance his dream of remaking Hungary as a place he would never again feel compelled to leave. Among them was Viktor Orban, a bright, charismatic student who was ardently pro-democracy, or so it seemed. In addition to providing Orban with a scholarship at Oxford, Soros donated money to Fidesz (the Alliance of Young Democrats), a student organization that Orban helped found and that evolved into his political party. It's rather ironic given Orban's current stance which the article describes in detail. Quote Soros was an early backer of Barack Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign. In Paris, Soros told me that Obama was “actually my greatest disappointment.” Prompted by an aide, he immediately qualified himself, saying that he hadn’t been disappointed by Obama’s presidency but felt let down on a professional level. While he had no desire for a formal role in the administration, he had hoped that Obama would seek his counsel, especially on financial and economic matters. Instead, he was frozen out. It would be interesting to know what he would have said had there been no aids present... Quote Asked if he would support Bernie Sanders if the Vermont senator won the Democratic nomination in 2020, Soros said it was too soon to say. He expressed displeasure with Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, another possible candidate, over her role in ousting Al Franken from Congress: “She was using #MeToo to promote herself.” He said his main goal as a political activist was to see a return to bipartisanship, a surprising claim in light of his lavish support for the Democrats. It's nice that at least one large donor sees through Gillibrand. It'll be interesting to see if his influence prevails in this instance. Quote When I asked Soros to describe himself ideologically, he laughed. “My ideology is nonideological,” he said. “I’m in the club of nonclubs.” When I suggested that “center-left” might characterize his views, he demurred; he said it wasn’t clear where he stood now because the left had moved further left, a development that did not please him. “I’m opposed to the extreme left,” he said. “It should stop trying to keep up with the extremists on the right.” He's one of the few American billionaires who started off in Europe before WWII and he knows where this path leads through personal experience, but I doubt anyone will listen to him on the topic... Quote Soros was in a reflective mood. He said democracy was in trouble because in many countries it had become sclerotic, insufficiently responsive to the public’s needs. “It’s losing out,” he said. Illiberal democracy, of the sort that Orban had fashioned in Hungary, was proving to be “more effective,” for the time being at least. The new-age autocrats had shown themselves to be particularly cunning in going after civil society as a means of consolidating their power. “It’s a less abrasive way of exercising control than actually killing people who disagree with you,” he said. He's about halfway there: given a bit more time, it'll probably occur to him that the reason democracy is insufficiently responsive to the public's needs is because it is overly responsive to billionaires such as himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, Altherion said: The New York Times has a long and interesting article about George Soros. Here are some tidbits: It's rather ironic given Orban's current stance which the article describes in detail. It would be interesting to know what he would have said had there been no aids present... It's nice that at least one large donor sees through Gillibrand. It'll be interesting to see if his influence prevails in this instance. He's one of the few American billionaires who started off in Europe before WWII and he knows where this path leads through personal experience, but I doubt anyone will listen to him on the topic... He's about halfway there: given a bit more time, it'll probably occur to him that the reason democracy is insufficiently responsive to the public's needs is because it is overly responsive to billionaires such as himself. That's not going to change without major reforms that remove the influence of money on the democratic process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said: That's not going to change Brevity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said: That's not going to change without major reforms that remove the influence of money on the democratic process You're probably right but it needs to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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