Jump to content
Damsel in Distress

The execution of Janos Slynt was personal and it was not justice.

Recommended Posts

Mormont cut Jon some slack for his desertion of the watch and for breaking his vows.   Jon could have shown the same mercy to Janos Slynt, whose offense was a lot less than his own.  His execution of Janos Slynt was personal and made a mockery of justice when he later allowed the most insubordinate Night's Watch brother of them all in Mance Rayder walk away unpunished.   That is not proper conduct for a leader and a disgrace for a lord commander.  The appropriate punishment and wisest decision would have been to lock Slynt in one of the cells.  Jon was thinking of Ned when he killed Slynt.  It was personal.  Jon was not objective when he passed judgment on Janos Slynt.  Whatever Slynt may have done during his life before the took the black is no longer important.  Any brother who takes the black get their past crimes forgiven.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t entirely disagree. I find the major euphoria among the fandom about the Slynt execution somewhat bewildering.

Many fans see it as an awesome moment of Jon being badass, major payback for past wrongs and generally intended to be a big emotional payoff moment for readers. I don’t get that at all.

Mostly because Slynt is a nobody. It is kind of like Walder Frey killing Catelyn’s children and now Martin makes a big show about Lady Stoneheart hanging the insignificant, somewhat pathetic Merric Frey, or whatever he drunkard’s name was.

I guess my view is that for real payback, Jon needed to kick the door of Casterly Rock down, ride into the Great Hall on his horse and behead Tywin Lannister on his high chair.

Instead, Martin makes a dramatic show of Jon beheading some incompetent nobody, down to having Stannis look on approvingly as if it was some big thing. It was not. The big things will be when Jon kills Roose (not Ramsay, who is another incompetent nobody), and when Arya kills Walder Frey and Cersei Lannister. And Littlefinger, above all. Never forget Littlefinger.

Janos Slynt? Who cares about him?

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I don’t entirely disagree. I find the major euphoria among the fandom about the Slynt execution somewhat bewildering.

Many fans see it as an awesome moment of Jon being badass, major payback for past wrongs and generally intended to be a big emotional payoff moment for readers. I don’t get that at all.

Mostly because Slynt is a nobody. It is kind of like Walder Frey killing Catelyn’s children and now Martin makes a big show about Lady Stoneheart hanging the insignificant, somewhat pathetic Merric Frey, or whatever he drunkard’s name was.

I guess my view is that for real payback, Jon needed to kick the door of Casterly Rock down, ride into the Great Hall on his horse and behead Tywin Lannister on his high chair.

Instead, Martin makes a dramatic show of Jon beheading some incomptetent nobody, down to having Stannis look on approvingly as if it was some big thing. It was not. The big things will be when Jon kills Roose (not Ramsay, who is another incompetent nobody), and when Arya kills Walder Frey and Cersei Lannister.

Janos Slynt? Who cares about him?

Because it’s one of two things with the Slynt situation. 

1. Karma like a bitch because of how Slynt stole wages from his brothers while still down in Kings Landing and had a hand in executing Ned, and then the whole playing politics and plotting thing in ASOS (GRRM has really set Slynt up to be an unsympathetic frog faced man from literally the get go. Literally :D). Remember, George changed Slynts’ execution for insubordination from hanging to a sword block because he realized it was the more consistent to the story, the more northern/Stark thing to do. 

2. It is most likely set up for Jon and how he deals with Mance later when he finds him. Between this and the sword fight in the yard with Mance (as Rattleshirt), Jon isn’t going to let Mance “get away” with anything else, like his NW desertion, and like fake-saving Arya, a highborn lady, from the sides of Long Lake in the start of a heavy winter when the wights are knocking on the door. 

Jon’s story isn’t over. 

Edited by The Fattest Leech

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Jon made the right call.

Quote

"You can stick your order up your bastard's arse," said Slynt, his jowls quivering.

This was said in front of the entire Castle Black garrison. Jon can't exactly let that go unchallenged. He could have ripped Slynt's tongue out instead of executing him, but as Tyrion points out in ACOK, that only gives credence to what he said. He can't let what Slynt said stand, because if he does he loses all authority and gets stabbed even sooner.

Jon did desert, but he was back by dawn (so technically he didn't violate the Watch's rules)nly refuse one of Jon's orders.

That doesn't change the fact is definitely personal though. Jon wasn't being impartial at the time, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

snip

 

This is so true, GRRM is being more than clear that Jon overreacted, he has him fantasizing about killing Slynt on the morning of the day he sentences him to death. 

That he did, albeit with poor grace, crossing his arms, scowling, and ignoring the naked steel in his lord commander's hands. Jon slid the oilcloth down his bastard sword, watching the play of morning light across the ripples, thinking how easily the blade would slide through skin and fat and sinew to part Slynt's ugly head from his body. All of a man's crimes were wiped away when he took the black, and all of his allegiances as well, yet he found it hard to think of Janos Slynt as a brother. There is blood between us. This man helped slay my father and did his best to have me killed as well.
"Lord Janos." Jon sheathed his sword. "I am giving you command of Greyguard."
 
 
He was looking for a reason to kill the man who executed his father and he found it. Human nature is still stronger than the vows of the nights watch, Jon's desire for revenge was always going to win out. 
 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

This is so true, GRRM is being more than clear that Jon overreacted, he has him fantasizing about killing Slynt on the morning of the day he sentences him to death. 

That he did, albeit with poor grace, crossing his arms, scowling, and ignoring the naked steel in his lord commander's hands. Jon slid the oilcloth down his bastard sword, watching the play of morning light across the ripples, thinking how easily the blade would slide through skin and fat and sinew to part Slynt's ugly head from his body. All of a man's crimes were wiped away when he took the black, and all of his allegiances as well, yet he found it hard to think of Janos Slynt as a brother. There is blood between us. This man helped slay my father and did his best to have me killed as well.
"Lord Janos." Jon sheathed his sword. "I am giving you command of Greyguard."
 
 
He was looking for a reason to kill the man who executed his father and he found it. Human nature is still stronger than the vows of the nights watch, Jon's desire for revenge was always going to win out. 
 
 

As it should. Who wants to read a story about a hero who acts like a robot, putting aside all personal feeings in favour of duty?

Would be super boring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Giant Ice Spider said:

I think Jon made the right call.

This was said in front of the entire Castle Black garrison. Jon can't exactly let that go unchallenged. He could have ripped Slynt's tongue out instead of executing him, but as Tyrion points out in ACOK, that only gives credence to what he said. He can't let what Slynt said stand, because if he does he loses all authority and gets stabbed even sooner.

Jon did desert, but he was back by dawn (so technically he didn't violate the Watch's rules)nly refuse one of Jon's orders.

That doesn't change the fact is definitely personal though. Jon wasn't being impartial at the time, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do.

The second he'd left castle black without leave(I.e abandon his post-seriously where would the cut off point be if not there? ) with clear intent to never come back he could've been easily charged and executed for desertion if Jeor was inclined to-luckily Jon, Jeor was sympathetic, and could easily be kept secret-the boy had potential to be a valuable member-it'd be a shame to kill him if it isn't absolutely necessary. If Jon or anyone attempted to desert to go help out some family in front of everyone the person who tried this would have to be executed-else more would follow with the expectation when caught they merely need to say they are willing to go back and resume their duties to avoid punishment. 

 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must have missed the part where Jon defied an order and publically insulted Lord Commander... 

Did Jon wish to off Slynt? Absolutely. Would Mormont, or any other commander, have Slynt executed for defying and insulting him like that? Absolutely. Jon's personal beef had nothing to do with the fact that he had to put stop to such insubordination and insolence, and do it in a manner that sent a clear message.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

As it should. Who wants to read a story about a hero who acts like a robot, putting aside all personal feeings in favour of duty?

Would be super boring.

Certainly, I have zero issue with what Jon did in regards with Slynt or Arya, he put his emotional desires over his duty to the vows of the nights watch, the majority of the characters do the same. I don't know why so many of his fans need to argue that he was doing his duty, that if any other brother had refused an order that morning they would not have been executed as a result.  Slynt was murdered because he killed Ned. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BUUULLLLSHIIIIITTTT

 

He offered Slynt an honored command in the Night's Watch, a leg up. He refused, spit in his face, and was completely insubordinate. Even after that, he STILL gave him another chance. What more could be asked of Jon at this point?

 

Janos Slynt was conspiring against him the entire time, and Jon needed to show what happens to traitors. This isn't King's Landing, some mincing game, this is the wall, this is the North. It's winter, and Janos Slynt was fucking awful for the Watch. He wouldn't have lasted, he'd have put himself first, and he'd have taken other more valiant brothers with him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

Would Mormont, or any other commander, have Slynt executed for defying and insulting him like that? Absolutely. 

we certainly don't know that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Bernie Mac said:

Certainly, I have zero issue with what Jon did in regards with Slynt or Arya, he put his emotional desires over his duty to the vows of the nights watch, the majority of the characters do the same. I don't know why so many of his fans need to argue that he was doing his duty, that if any other brother had refused an order that morning they would not have been executed as a result.  Slynt was murdered because he killed Ned. 

 

Bullshit. If anyone else had done what Slynt had done(for one, almost none would, even Alliser does his duty) they'd be gone as well if they were as useless and conniving as Janos was. He weakened the watch more than he strengthened it. He refused to do his duty, and wouldn't obey orders. What possible use could he have at this point to the Watch?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

we certainly don't know that. 

So, in your opinion, what would Mormont do if someone, publically, told him he wasn't going to obey an order and that Mormont could go fuck himself?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

The second he'd left castle black without leave(I.e abandon his post-seriously where would the cut off point be if not there? ) with clear intent to never come back he could've been easily charged and executed for desertion if Jeor was inclined to-luckily Jon, Jeor was sympathetic, and could easily be kept secret-the boy had potential to be a valuable member-it'd be a shame to kill him if it isn't absolutely necessary. If Jon or anyone attempted to desert to go help out some family in front of everyone the person who tried this would have to be executed-else more would follow with the expectation when caught they merely need to say they are willing to go back and resume their duties to avoid punishment. 

 

People slip off all the time in the NW. Usually, though, they only go as far as Mole's Town, so I guess that's the cutoff point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

So, in your opinion, what would Mormont do if someone, publically, told him he wasn't going to obey an order and that Mormont could go fuck himself?

We know that brothers broke their vows constantly  under Mormont, he looked the other way and gave chances and would explain his decisions to them in private, unless he was offering Jon preferential treatment when he spoke to him in private. 

Jon, who is literally fantasizing about chopping Slynt's head off that very morning, is trying to isolate Slynt and giving him a shit position based to rid himself off him. 

Jon was looking for an excuse to murder someone, as far as we know Mormont has never been in the same position. 

Edited by Bernie Mac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel Jon wasted an opportunity with Slynt primarely because of his personal issues with the man and his issuess with house lanister.

Slynt could have been used a liaison to House lanister , if there is anyone at the wall who can actually convince  them that there are ice-zombies coming it's Janos Slynt. It at the very least would have gotten the man away long enough to not be a nuisance.

Hell, Jon should have had him pen the letter(something not at all needlessly cryptic-like the one he actually sent) to the crown-they'd be more likely to at least not simply shrugg it off.

But then again Jon thought there was no chance of aid; which is a sentiment  again is seemingly motivated to them having devastated his family; his claim that they only sent Janos Slynt in response to their pleads for help is false; prisoners were sent over in response Allister's visit; and even if Jon doesn't like Slynt, he's not actually a bad offering. Remember Slynt was the son of a butcher, who was elevated to the position of the commander of the city's watch in Kingslanding-the watch is always looking to claim such men of Janos's credentials.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

We know that brothers broke their vows constantly  under Mormont, he looked the other way and gave chances and would explain his decisions to them in private, unless he was offering Jon preferential treatment when he spoke to him in private. 

Jon, who is literally fantasizing about chopping Slynt's head off that very morning, is trying to isolate Slynt and giving him a shit position based to rid himself off him. 

Jon was looking for an excuse to murder someone, as far as we know Mormont has never been in the same position. 

Slynt was worth waaaay more as an example than he was on the Watch. He was a coward, he sucked, he had no valuable skills aside from being able to read, and he was a prime member of the coalition looking to shit on Jon's command, oppose it at every turn, and was also stupid. He was completely insubordinate more than once and undermined the Lord Commander's watch totally and entirely. He shit on the opportunity to lead a garrison, which should be an honor, therefore devaluing the position to the next man.

 

Jon fantasizes about it, then denies his impulses and gives him MEN UNDER HIS COMMAND, which was honestly almost worse because it allows Janos to indoctrinate them directly. Thankfully he'd have been stupid and unlikable enough to do that.

 

If you're really looking to poke at Jon's impartiality, you should be bringing up Alliser, which almost certainly had to do with getting rid of someone who was actively trying to connive and usurp his command in secret at every opportunity. Janos had almost no value, while Alliser had plenty of value to the Watch in a dark time.

 

Can you at least attempt to explain how making an example of Slynt was worth less than whatever qualities you decide Slynt may have had?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I feel Jon wasted an opportunity with Slynt primarely because of his personal issues with the man and his issuess with house lanister.

Slynt could have been used a liaison to House lanister , if there is anyone at the wall who can actually convince  them that there are ice-zombies coming it's Janos Slynt. It at the very least would have gotten the man away long enough to not be a nuisance.

Getting him away to not be a nuisance isn't bad, though he'd likely just desert once south since Jon can't pursue him and no one is left to care about him deserting in King's Landing.

 

But Slynt being the Watch's best option to convince the Lannisters ice zombies are real? Noooo way lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Getting him away to not be a nuisance isn't bad, though he'd likely just desert once south since Jon can't pursue him and no one is left to care about him deserting in King's Landing.

 

But Slynt being the Watch's best option to convince the Lannisters ice zombies are real? Noooo way lol

What are the other options at that point? Jon(the beloved bastard of Eddard Stark who the lanisters executed) send a needlessly cryptic letter saying the watch is in need help to fight things largely consigned as myth and hope they don't(obviously) see it  as a merely a lame plan to get more men and/or justify their harboring of Stannis? Seriously  Like him or not Janos Slynt is the best option-he's proven himself to be reliable to the lanisters  on multiple occasions thhey'd be more like to listen to what he has to say more than anyone else at castle black-hell at the very least they may send someone to confirm Slynt is speaking true. And Slynt is a man. A man with a family to which he genuily cares for-his interests would seeing the watch suceed, he'd no more desire for he and everyone he ever loved turned into those icey Demons than Jon. Also a peasant who was competent enough at job to be elevated to head KL's guards-men with Slynt's background around are sought after by the watch for a reason.!.

 

Slynt would be sent back to keep an eye on the watch, he'd more use there than anywhere the lanisters can send him. 

Simply put Slynt was worth to the watch alive and able to attest to the fact zombies are coming , than he is dead. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×