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Damsel in Distress

The execution of Janos Slynt was personal and it was not justice.

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16 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Theon and Dagmer disobeyed Balon. Cat disobeyed Robb and Edmure. Davos diobeyed Stannis. Sandor disobeyed Tyrion. It happens and its not always met with the block

At least with the cases for Theon and Cat, the people they are disobeying are kin. Isn't one of the biggest sins kinslaying? Balon in particular refused to have Euron killed for what he did to Victarion's wife.

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On 7/18/2018 at 8:08 PM, Sire de Maletroit said:

It's just plain silly assumption from the readers to think Jon will be less respected if he showed mercy to Janos.  He might actually win some of Janos' supporters by showing he can be fair.  

Some readers think that.  I don't.  It was not a wise choice of punishment because the supporters you talk of disliked Jon even more after their friend was executed.

 

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10 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

Dunno about your copy of ASOIAF, but in mine, none of the people you mention told their superior in public to shove their order up their arse.

Sandor said bugger you and the king in public at a crucial moment in battle which led to mass desertion and almost certain defeat.

6 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

At least with the cases for Theon and Cat, the people they are disobeying are kin. Isn't one of the biggest sins kinslaying? Balon in particular refused to have Euron killed for what he did to Victarion's wife.

Thats true. Kinship didnt stop Robb from killing Karstark, though theyre hardly kin

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27 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Theon and Dagmer disobeyed Balon. Cat disobeyed Robb and Edmure. Davos diobeyed Stannis. Sandor disobeyed Tyrion. It happens and its not always met with the block

And which one f those people are subordinate officers defying their commanding officer? That's right... Not. A. One. 

14 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

Dunno about your copy of ASOIAF, but in mine, none of the people you mention told their superior in public to shove their order up their arse.

Perfect. :lol:

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2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

And which one f those people are subordinate officers defying their commanding officer? That's right... Not. A. One. 

Perfect. :lol:

Balon Stannis and Robb are king. Disobeying the king is disobeying the commanding officer. Tyrion was the Hand and given control of Blackwater

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1 hour ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

I didn't express it clearly enough, but I meant that obedience to superior officers is a major organizing principle of any and all functional military organizations (I would argue that it is the major organizing principle and takes precedence over all other military norms). Of course, you are right that dysfunction does sometimes occur, which causes the organization to become chaotic and untenable. And likely destroys the organization as well.

But the argument that what Slynt did is relatively minor asserts that that very dysfunction ought to be standard operating procedure in a military order like the Night's Watch. This is not just baffling as an idea but bizarre as well, as you say.

Consider this,  Jon was allowed to get away with an attempted murder of a superior officer.   Mance Rayder was allowed to violate all the laws of the Night's Watch and he's still walking around with his head on his shoulders playing at being a bard.  

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29 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Sandor said bugger you and the king in public at a crucial moment in battle which led to mass desertion and almost certain defeat.

Thats true. Kinship didnt stop Robb from killing Karstark, though theyre hardly kin

I'm not sure if Bugger The King happened in the books, but after Sandor's refusal to follow orders, he abandoned the army, the city, the Lannisters, and the The King, so.......I'm not sure where this has any bearing on the idea of a mutinous refusal not being punished?  Should Tyrion have stopped the battle and asked for a time out to punish Sandor before he disappeared for good from the city?

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40 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Sandor said bugger you and the king in public at a crucial moment in battle which led to mass desertion and almost certain defeat.

You have a quote for this? 

 

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6 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

I'm not sure if Bugger The King happened in the books, but after Sandor's refusal to follow orders, he abandoned the army, the city, the Lannisters, and the The King, so.......I'm not sure where this has any bearing on the idea of a mutinous refusal not being punished?  Should Tyrion have stopped the battle and asked for a time out to punish Sandor before he disappeared for good from the city?

Exactly. As for the rest, Theon never met Balon after disobeying him, in the case of Davos,  Stannis knew in his heart that Davos was morally right and that Davos was still loyal to him (this concept just doesn't apply to Slynt), and regarding Cat, Starks simply do not kill women, ever,  not even when they are enemies,  much less their own mothers - which would also be kinslaying.

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