GoT_Academy Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I've been re-reading ASOIAF and got to Ned II on AGOT, when Ned and Robert talk about Lyanna, Robert's Rebellion and the mother of Jon Snow. And it got me thinking. Basically, Ned has forsaken so many vows when he lied about Jon Snow's heritage - betrayed his king and his wife and the north. Ned is so strict when it comes to honor (see: Jaime) and laws (see: Jorah), but he seems to be fine with promising his sister to be dishonorable. His 16 year old sister eloped with a Rhaegar even though she was betrothed to someone else, Robert. Her Father, Lord of Winterfell, made that decision, and that decision is binding. But she didn't want to marry Robert. She wanted to marry someone else. Let's remember that this is a medieval world with feudal rules. We do not judge the characters according to contemporary values, because if we did then Ned should be vilified for not giving Will of the Night's Watch a fair trial and for his sword-happy use of capital punishment, when Will was telling the truth about the Others. But in Lyanna's case, we forgive Ned because he had personal reasons to promise her to lie. Were these reasons more valid than Jaime's reasons to kill the Mad King? Or more valid than Will's reasons to desert? If every lord in the realm would put personal emotions before the law - then there would be chaos. Yet, we overlook that. The result of Lyanna's decision to betray her Father and family and house was an all-out civil war that caused thousands of deaths, untold emotional, physical and monetary suffering. But Ned doesn't seem to judge her for it in his internal monologues. Is he lying to himself? Or doesn't he see his hypocrisy?knowing Ned, would he have been so forgiving if another young daughter of a different big house - say, the Lannsiters - have done the same and descended the realm into chaos and then covered it up? What do you think? I'm genuinely interested in hearing more views about this, because I don't remember hearing or reading anyone talk about Ned's dishonor. Not "cheating" on his wife (Catelyn doesn't care that he slept with someone else), but covering for his baby sister's grievous offense of putting herself before her Father, house, the north and the realm. I talk more about that chapter, Ned II, in my re-reading ASOIAF video series on my YouTube channel, Got Academy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amris Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 If you want to encourage a discussion about a topic I would advise to formulate a headline that is result-open. Your current headline already forestalls a conclusion (Ned is not honorable) and indeed emphatically forestalls it ('clearly' not honorable). That leaves the impression that you have already made up your mind about this. Emphatically made it up actually. So what's the point of discussing with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unacosamedarisa Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 3 hours ago, GoT_Academy said: But Ned doesn't seem to judge her for it in his internal monologues. She's dead, she was sister, and we don't actually know what happened to spark the rebellion, before Aerys started burning folks. Ned doesn't hold any real ill will towards Rhaegar either. Perhaps, he feels that Rhaegar and Lyanna didn't start the war, that it was Aerys and his madness that really started it, and Lyanna is not to blame. 3 hours ago, GoT_Academy said: Ned's dishonor. Not "cheating" on his wife (Catelyn doesn't care that he slept with someone else), but covering for his baby sister's grievous offense of putting herself before her Father, house, the north and the realm. How is that Ned's dishonour? He made a promise to his dying sister, and has upheld that promise, even though it cost him in the eyes of others (assuming Jon isn't Ned's child)... Ned is choosing to look dishonourable to the whole world, by claiming Jon as his bastard, to keep the boy safe... that's pretty honourable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 You Ser are a troll lol, Ned is obviously one of the top morally honourable men in asoiaf we know that GRRM doesnt like black and white characters and Ned is more white to me then Grey. He chose to protect his sisters legacy and his Blood nephew by accepting the dishonour that came along with lying to his king and best friend and having the general public believe he cheated on his wife and produced a bastard and even went as far as to raise him. Whats more honourable then that?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Why two seemingly identical threads? Anyway. Ned wasn't dutiful but he was honourable. And I'm talking true honour, doing what is right whatever the cost. And that's what he did. Words are wind, it's actions that count. We don't know how it all went down w/ Lyanna and Rhaegar, so I don't think we can pass judgement just yet. And Ned executed Gared, not Will. That's another useless change the abomination did. Still, Ned did what he had to do, NW deserters are sentenced to death. Also, plot reasons, since Ned couldn't just believe whatever Gared told him unless Martin wanted to tell a vastly different story than the one he is actually telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 In short because there are multiple characters in the series who comment on just how honorable he is as well as his own actions. He is morally offended when Jaime remains as a kingsguard, when there are no consequences to the murder of the royal children, he is even willing for the entire realm to go to civil war over his 'honor'. Ned is very honorable, but that does not mean he is a robot, we can easily point out times he lied and/or put his own family above his honor, but fort he most part he was honorable and possibly the most honorable overlord we have seen in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 6 hours ago, GoT_Academy said: 1. What do you think? I'm genuinely interested in hearing more views about this 2. , because I don't remember hearing or reading anyone talk about Ned's dishonor. Not "cheating" on his wife (Catelyn doesn't care that he slept with someone else), but covering for his baby sister's grievous offense of putting herself before her Father, house, the north and the realm. 3. I talk more about that chapter, Ned II, in my re-reading ASOIAF video series on my YouTube channel, Got Academy. (Quoter is wonky) 1. I think you should get your facts straight before making purposely enflaming threads like this (ie, leaving the Abomination out of book discussion). 2. If you hung around this forum and read the various threads, many people do not think Ned was honorable. Me, I tend to prefer my characters to be realistic and not mindless gadgets in a story. This ASOAIF series is character driven, not plot driven, but it seems many readers really would prefer for the plot to be the main character and not the “people” within 3. Aah. This makes sense. You are a YouTuber and this thread is really a commercial advertisement for your channel. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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