"Jaime Lannister sends his regards"

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

Allow me to take you to a rather interesting scene between Roose Bolton and Jaime Lannister.  This scene took place at Harrenhal.  Roose Bolton is sending Jaime on to his father.  

"The Trident is in flood.  Even at ruby ford the crossing will be difficult.  You will give my warm regards to your father."  (Roose Bolton)

"So long as you give mine to Robb Stark"  (Jaime Lannister)

This to me is proof of Jaime Lannister having knowledge of the Red Wedding ahead of time.  Roose Bolton crossed that proverbial bridge of no return.  He betrayed Robb Stark in front of witnesses by allowing Jaime Lannister to leave.  Robb Stark has to die now and the Starks have to lose the north.  Roose Bolton is a dead man if the Starks should retain their lordship of the north.  Roose and Jaime both knew that Robb and the Starks will have to lose or else Roose Bolton is a dead man.  His betrayal will come out and the Starks will be less than appreciative.  

The following is a Cat POV of the Red Wedding.

Quote

A man in dark armor and a pale pink cloak spotted with blood stepped up to Robb.  "Jaime Lannister sends his regards."  He thrust his longsword through her son's heart, and twisted.

What do you think?

[kissdbyfire]

No, Jaime absolutely did not know about anything regarding the RW and Daddy Dearest's machinations. That isn't even a mystery, w/ clues and stuff, the text makes it quite clear. 

Yes, Roose was already plotting w/ Tywin and the Freys, but even if not he sort of had to return Jaime. 

And Roose actually saying, "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" is just Roose Bolton humour. 

[goldenlion]

9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

No, Jaime absolutely did not know about anything regarding the RW and Daddy Dearest's machinations. That isn't even a mystery, w/ clues and stuff, the text makes it quite clear. 

Yes, Roose was already plotting w/ Tywin and the Freys, but even if not he sort of had to return Jaime. 

And Roose actually saying, "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" is just Roose Bolton humour. 

yeah roose bolton was just being a sadist he knew catelyn who freed jaime could hear him he wanted her to die believing that jaime had a role in the red wedding

[Euron III Greyjoy]

Sorry but I'm not entirely sure on what you are trying to say here. 

No Jaime didn't know about the Red Wedding, how would he? He spent pretty much the entire war as Robb's captive, and then spent the last bit of it making his way back to Kings Landing. 

Roose told Robb "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" because that is just the type of dark humor that Roose is into. He wanted Robb to know in his last moments that he failed.  

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

16 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

No, Jaime absolutely did not know about anything regarding the RW and Daddy Dearest's machinations. That isn't even a mystery, w/ clues and stuff, the text makes it quite clear. 

Yes, Roose was already plotting w/ Tywin and the Freys, but even if not he sort of had to return Jaime. 

And Roose actually saying, "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" is just Roose Bolton humour. 

That's like saying Jaime is too stupid to realize Roose Bolton's predicament.  Roose just let him leave.  That is treason against Robb.   

The die has been cast.  Roose Bolton passed the point of no return.  He threw in with the Lannisters with that simple move of letting Jaime (Robb's valued prisoner) go.  Jaime is not the brightest but this is crystal clear.  

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

1 minute ago, EloImFizzy said:

Sorry but I'm not entirely sure on what you are trying to say here. 

No Jaime didn't know about the Red Wedding, how would he? He spent pretty much the entire war as Robb's captive, and then spent the last bit of it making his way back to Kings Landing. 

Roose told Robb "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" because that is just the type of dark humor that Roose is into. He wanted Robb to know in his last moments that he failed.  

So you don't think he knew Roose Bolton was going to take down Robb Stark?  Or at least try to?  

You realize if Robb remains lord of the north that Roose's life is forfeit for letting Jaime go?  Does it not make sense for Roose to make sure Robb doesn't remain lord of the north over him?  That killing Robb during the wedding is the best way to do this.

[Euron III Greyjoy]

3 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

So you don't think he knew Roose Bolton was going to take down Robb Stark?  Or at least try to?  

You realize if Robb remains lord of the north that Roose's life is forfeit for letting Jaime go?  Does it not make sense for Roose to make sure Robb doesn't remain lord of the north over him?  That killing Robb during the wedding is the best way to do this.

I just don't understand how Roose going to the point of no return equals Jaime knowing of Roose's nefarious plans. We read that segment from Jaime's perspective, if he suspected something we would have read him thinking about it in his head. At the time Jaime was probably too busy being depressed over his lost hand to really give a shit about anything going on around him.

The Red Wedding was pretty much guaranteed to win anyway, but even if it didn't who was going to tell Robb about him letting Jaime go, his loyal Bolton men? His new Frey kin who hated Robb? 

[kissdbyfire]

17 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

So you don't think he knew Roose Bolton was going to take down Robb Stark?  Or at least try to?  

It's not that I don't think, I know because it's in the text. Jaime didn't even know Robb had married Jeyne Westerling, it was Roose who told him at Harrenhal. 

17 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

You realize if Robb remains lord of the north that Roose's life is forfeit for letting Jaime go? 

I suggest you go read ASoS 1 Jaime I. Roose explains all of this to Jaime. 

17 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Does it not make sense for Roose to make sure Robb doesn't remain lord of the north over him?  That killing Robb during the wedding is the best way to do this.

You're swapping everything. By the time Roose and Jaime talk during their meal together in Harrenhal, the RW has already been planned and now it's only a matter of carrying it out. Seriously, re-read the chapter.. 

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

No, Jaime absolutely did not know about anything regarding the RW and Daddy Dearest's machinations

Agree. Jaime at this point in time does not know. He may have surmised that there was some communicaton going on betwixt Tywin & Roose.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

2 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Allow me to take you to a rather interesting scene between Roose Bolton and Jaime Lannister.  This scene took place at Harrenhal.  Roose Bolton is sending Jaime on to his father.  

"The Trident is in flood.  Even at ruby ford the crossing will be difficult.  You will give my warm regards to your father."  (Roose Bolton)

"So long as you give mine to Robb Stark"  (Jaime Lannister)

This to me is proof of Jaime Lannister having knowledge of the Red Wedding ahead of time.  Roose Bolton crossed that proverbial bridge of no return.  He betrayed Robb Stark in front of witnesses by allowing Jaime Lannister to leave.  Robb Stark has to die now and the Starks have to lose the north.  Roose Bolton is a dead man if the Starks should retain their lordship of the north.  Roose and Jaime both knew that Robb and the Starks will have to lose or else Roose Bolton is a dead man.  His betrayal will come out and the Starks will be less than appreciative.  

The following is a Cat POV of the Red Wedding.

What do you think?

The dialogue is not important.  Circumstance is what's important.  Yeah Jaime will have realized by then who Roose is siding with.  The lion team.   I doubt he knew exactly how Roose was to take down the Starks but he must have known Roose had a plan to destroy the Starks or else he wouldn't have let Jaime go.  But it's not hard to reason out.  Roose is the little fish and the only way he can beat Robb is treachery.  Jaime would have realized Roose and Walder had treachery in mind.  

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Agree. Jaime at this point in time does not know. He may have surmised that there was some communicaton going on betwixt Tywin & Roose.

For Roose to let Jaime go instead of taking him back to Robb is a betrayal of the Starks.  Roose knew it.  Jaime knew it.  Both would also know Roose will be executed when Robb finds out.  It should be obvious and it is.  Roose betrayed Robb.  How does one survive after betraying their boss?  By taking down the boss.  

The details of the red wedding will have been top secret.  It's not something Roose would flippantly share with anyone.  But Jaime would have known that something was up.  Something was cooking to use an old expression.  Tywin and Roose are the cooks and they're preparing a nasty dish for the Starks.  

[chrisdaw]

That because there are witnesses it does not follow word must reach Robb of the happenings at HH and Robb must believe them.

[Free Northman Reborn]

The dialogue will of course turn out to be of great significance, because the flippant, yet meaningless, comment from Jaime was repeated by Roose where Catelyn could hear it.

So Lady Stoneheart will have this comment burned into her vengeful mind when she gets Jaime in her hands in Winds. These words may prove highly fateful indeed. It may be what drives Catelyn’s very continued existence at this point.

[Geddus]

7 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

No, Jaime absolutely did not know about anything regarding the RW and Daddy Dearest's machinations. That isn't even a mystery, w/ clues and stuff, the text makes it quite clear. 

Jaime didn't know about the Red Wedding, no, but he understood that lord Bolton had switched sides, or was about to.

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, Geddus said:

Jaime didn't know about the Red Wedding, no, but he understood that lord Bolton had switched sides, or was about to.

Of course he did. He says as much, or rather, thinks as much during his convo w/ Roose. 

Like I said before, it's all there in the text, and all one has to do is read the chapter. 

[MostlyMoody]

I don't get it. Is your actual point that Jaime knew of his father's plan?
It's not even a mystery, we have POV chapters for Jaime. He quite obviously didn't know about the Red Wedding. All he knew was that Roose switched sides.

[Castellan]

It is not a new interpretation and I rejected it at first but am slightly more open to it now. Not convinced it means Jaime is fully aware of what is about to happen.

I first took it as a quip which will have fatal consequences to Jaime since Roose Bolton passed it on while killing Robb and Catelyn, now Lady S, heard him. He's about to meet Lady S in TWOW. A quip along the lines of 'please rub it in that I am free'.

However, Jaime is not stupid. On first arriving at Harrenhal he heard the Freys angry at Robb and discussing the need for someone to tell Robb he had to surrender. Roose was cool and neutral to that suggestion but Jaime has since negotiated with Roose about his release. He can see that Roose is at least now trying to earn points with his father to guard against the future when the North loses. If Roose was loyal to Robb he would have to return Jaime to him. Roose explicity pointed out that Vargo cut off Jaime's hand to prevent any chance of Roose's returning Jaime and we assume, eventually switching sides. 

He may not know that his father is planning to slaughter the Starks. But he might suspect it. It depends if he thinks that something along the lines of what the Freys suggested would happen - Robbs supporters tell him the truth that he can't win and must surrender, they are not supporting him any more and a negotiated peace follows. (Although those Freys are clearly fools). Its possible he thinks the end is near for the North and there is a good chance that Robb would end up dead. I think he'd see that as the chances of war. I don't think it would occur to him that something like a violation of guest right and a massive slaughter would happen.

2 hours ago, MostlyMoody said:

I don't get it. Is your actual point that Jaime knew of his father's plan?
It's not even a mystery, we have POV chapters for Jaime. He quite obviously didn't know about the Red Wedding. All he knew was that Roose switched sides.

There is a flaw in the POV argument - not all characters reveal everything they infer (Tyrion in his wandering in Essos) or know (Ned doesn't reveal exactly what happened at the TOJ in his POV). 

[kissdbyfire]

23 minutes ago, Castellan said:

There is a flaw in the POV argument - not all characters reveal everything they infer (Tyrion in his wandering in Essos) or know (Ned doesn't reveal exactly what happened at the TOJ in his POV). 

Edited 14 minutes ago by Castellan

Jaime doesn't even know Robb broke his promise to Frey and married Jeyne Westerling, it's impossible for him to know about the plans for the RW. And not only he asks about it when informed that Edmure is to wed a Frey, but we have his thoughts on it as well. 

[Lord Varys]

Jaime has no idea about the Red Wedding as such. But he clearly knows his daddy and Roose have a deal now, and that, he, Jaime, was a part of that. He wasn't part of the plan, but he made the plan possible.

Remember how keen Roose was that Jaime does not tell his daddy that Roose was in any way involved in the loss of the golden boy's sword hand. If Jaime hadn't played along there, there wouldn't have been a Red Wedding. Instead, the golden boy would have become a golden corpse.

In that sense, Jaime is responsible for the fact that there was a Red Wedding, but he wasn't involved in the plotting in any way, shape, or form.

[The Commentator]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Jaime doesn't even know Robb broke his promise to Frey and married Jeyne Westerling, it's impossible for him to know about the plans for the RW. And not only he asks about it when informed that Edmure is to wed a Frey, but we have his thoughts on it as well. 

I can agree to a point that Jaime may not have known how Robb would meet his end.  But, Jaime knew Roose had a strategy to keep himself alive and the only method to do that after he betrayed Robb is to make sure the Starks take a fall.   Unless you want to argue that Roose wants to be a martyr and get the same gift that Robb gave Karstark.  Roose will have to make certain of a Stark defeat because he can't return to the north after letting Jaime go, not while the Starks remain the power house in the north.  

14 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Allow me to take you to a rather interesting scene between Roose Bolton and Jaime Lannister.  This scene took place at Harrenhal.  Roose Bolton is sending Jaime on to his father.  

"The Trident is in flood.  Even at ruby ford the crossing will be difficult.  You will give my warm regards to your father."  (Roose Bolton)

"So long as you give mine to Robb Stark"  (Jaime Lannister)

This to me is proof of Jaime Lannister having knowledge of the Red Wedding ahead of time.  Roose Bolton crossed that proverbial bridge of no return.  He betrayed Robb Stark in front of witnesses by allowing Jaime Lannister to leave.  Robb Stark has to die now and the Starks have to lose the north.  Roose Bolton is a dead man if the Starks should retain their lordship of the north.  Roose and Jaime both knew that Robb and the Starks will have to lose or else Roose Bolton is a dead man.  His betrayal will come out and the Starks will be less than appreciative.  

The following is a Cat POV of the Red Wedding.

What do you think?

Are we expecting Jaime to give Robb a warning?  "Hey Robb, your banner man allowed me to go.  He now has to kill you because he doesn't want to lose his head for treason.   Just a friendly word of warning from your friend, the Kingslayer."

Jaime is one of the most odious people in the novels.  He's wicked.  He swore an oath to defend his king and killed that king.  Another king pardons him and let him keep his job.  He repaid that by cuckolding the king for years.  Tosses an innocent boy from a tower window.  This man is not about to go squeamish over the slaughter of his father's enemies.