What if Renly was born one year older than Stannis?

[UFT]

how does this affect the timeline?

[Euron III Greyjoy]

Stannis would have rallied behind Renly in the War of the Five Kings with the full might of both the Reach and the Stormlands, taken Kings landing and become King Renly. We know that he was fine with Robb keeping his title of King so long as he proclaims Renly as King of the Seven Kingdoms, so he would probably also have the North and the Riverlands on his side. Then everyone would go home and there would have been plenty of people to help fight the Others once they invade. 

[Stormking902]

It would be a completly different story ..........

Dahm I went all Dorian Martell, perhaps (and I never thought Id say this) hes right it is to much lol. 

 

But to answer OP Stannis would support Renly and do his duty as Stannis has always done, NO shadow baby means Renly sits back and watches KL starve quite litterally blockade by land and sea and when the smallfolk riot Renly comes and "saves" the city lol. 

Robb eventually bends the knee because Renly is unstopable with the full might of The Reach, Stormlands and Crownlands. Sansa and Arya probably are murdered by Cersies orders when Renly "saves" the city.

Tywin bends the knee eventually after giving up Lannister hostages in exchange for keeping his head. 

[Megorova]

It would have been entirely different story.

In the original timeline, Robert was born in 262, Stannis in 264, and Renly in 277. Their parents died in 278, when they were R-16, S-14, Ren-1. In 282, when Robert's Rebellion began, they were R-20, S-18, Ren-5.

Now I have a question - if Renly was born one year prior Stannis, that would be in 263, and by the time of the Rebellion, he would have been 19 years old; in the original timeline, Loras Tyrell was born in 282, and was 5 years younger than Renly, and Margaery was born in 283, and she was 6 years younger than Renly; so the question is, would Loras and Margaery also be a part of this new timeline, or not?

Alternative timeline, with Loras and Margaery - when 3BB's parents died, Renly would have been 15, and by the time of Rebellion - 19, while Loras would have been 14, and Margaery 13.

I think, that if Renly was secondborn, and a bit older, than he was in the original timeline, then, most likely, Robert would have wanted to push Renly into an arranged marriage, that would have been politically favourable for House Baratheon. Thus, probably, by the time, in the span of the Rebellion, when Mace Tyrell came to Storm's End with his troops, Renly would have been either already in unwanted marriage, with some ugly hag, like Selyse Florent, or betrothed to one, and expected to marry soon.

(In the original timeline, Stannis wasn't wed yet, by the time of the Rebellion, because, even in his youth, he had so so looks, and shitty personality. So nobody was coveting to wed him to their daughters. But Renly, with his looks, and cheerful personality, would have been a desirable match for daughter of any lord. So Robert would have been pestered by offers of marriage for Renly, from various Houses of 7K.)

So here comes Mace, and with him his troops, and his 14 years old son, lovely Loras... Do I need to proceed, or is it already obvious, in which direction this plot will go?

Based on Renly's participation in the War of Five Kings, it seems, that he cared more about his personal interests, than about Baratheon's legacy, or Robert's ancestry. So if he was in charge of Storm's End, when it was lain under siege by Tyrells, Renly wouldn't have supported Robert, if he had an alternative, that will free him from his unpleasant situation (with his marriage/engagement). I think, that he would have arranged with Tyrells, to get rid of his wife (if he was married at the time), then they would have made a deal, for arranged marriage between Renly and Margaery, while Loras would have became a pleasant bonus, and Renly's new best friend. And Baratheon people at Storm's End, would have agreed with Renly's decision. They would have obviously prefeared peace, instead of eating rats and dogs, and degrading to cannibalism, or dying from hunger.

Under conditions of this scenario, it would have been even possible, that Renly would have went from freed Storm's End, to Stoney Sept, to deal with his brother. Robert was wounded, and he wouldn't have expected, that his own brother will send someone, to cut his throat. Like in the original timeline, Renly wasn't expecting, that his brother will assassinate him, thru some foul method. In the original timeline, second brother is a treacherous rat. So in a new timeline, Renly IS this second brother, and thus - kinslayer. While, sent by him shadow assassin, would have been Brienne

Now about rats - rats like cheese. If, while Robert was away at The Eyrie, Renly was Lord of Stormlands, in Robert's place, and he was older, then people of 7K would have found out much sooner, about his preferences. And Tyrells were always cunning and resourceful. So they would have used, what they had, to get what they want. During siege of Storm's End, Mace Tyrell and his bannermen, feasted within sight of the walls. So in this alternative scenario, Mace (Mice ) could have used Loras as a bait. He would have been either piece of cheese, or Pied Piper of Hamelin, and lured Renly out of his castle, towards mutually benefitual union.

Then, after Robert's death, united troops of Renly's stormlanders and Mace's reachmen, would have defeated remnants of rebel forces at Stoney Sept, long before Ned Stark and Jon Arryn had an opportunity to arrive there with their reinforcements, to aid Robert. Then Rhaegar returns, and with him to Trident arrive Targaryen reinforcements - ten thousands Dornishmen (like it did happened in the actual story). So Rhaegar has support of Dorne, Stormlands (with both Renly Baratheon and Jon Connington backing him up), and The Reach. While Ned and Jon Arryn have on their side troops of The North, The Vale, and Riverlands. It's unlikely, that Tywin Lannister would have openly supported either side, so in this scenario he was waiting for the end of the war, on the sidelines, same as he did in the original story. So the forces are approximately equal. But then Rhaegar sends his negotiators, with peace offering, and information about Lyanna. Ned would have been pacified, by reunion with his sister.

Tullys already got from that war, what they wanted - marriages with Arryn and Stark. Additionally Rhaegar could have promised to Ned and Jon Arryn, to compensate for the loss of their family members, one Targaryen for each of their kin. Ned lost his father and brother, and Jon lost his son, so they could have agreed to future marriages between their families - Jon Snow-Targaryen-Stark with Daenerys, and Robb Stark with Rhaenys. While prince Viserys would have been fostered at The Vale by Jon Arryn. Also as a punishment for Tywin, Targaryens could have forced Cersei to marry either with Edmure Tully, or with one of Greyjoy's (which would have prevented Rebellion of Ironborn, because they would have been too busy, dealing with Cersei).

Thus, there would have been no Baratheons/Lannisters Kings, no conflict between them and Starks, and no War of Five Kings.

So it's good, that Renly wasn't born sooner. Otherwise the story would have ended too soon, back in 283.  

[Faera]

11 hours ago, UFT said:

how does this affect the timeline?

Presuming Stannis is still the exact same person with the exact same life experiences, just younger than Renly, he would have supported Renly without complaint as he did Robert. The Baratheons would probably have taken King's Landing with the aid of the Tyrells; killed Joffrey, Cersei, and Tyrion, and moped up the rest of the war.

[Unacosamedarisa]

Quote

What if Renly was born one year older than Stannis?

Stannis was 13 years old or so when Renly was born. So, I'd imagine, their mother Cassana Estermont giving birth to a fully formed 14 year old Renly would be quite the event, and would likely result in her death, either through physical (and mental) trauma from the actual birth, or execution due to the abomination which she hath wrought. If she did survive the birth, and Steffon decided not to burn her where she lay, I picture a quick mental breakdown and suicide. Similarly, I could see a major push for Renly himself to be executed/burned/tied into a sack and sunk in the deepest part of the Narrow Sea... keeping him around, and the story getting out, could be a major blow to the standing of the Baratheon family.

However, we know Steffon Baratheon was concerned with the wellbeing of his children... He excitedly wrote to Storm's End about finding Patchface, because he thought the fool could teach Stannis to smile. So I don't see Steffon murdering the boy. Instead, hushing up the whole thing as best he could, claiming his wife and child died during the birth, and then exile to the Night's Watch for Renly would be the course of action I'd predict would be taken. Unfortunately, for Renly, though he may have come out with the physical body of a 14 year old, he would still possess the mental abilities of a newborn, and he'd be knifed to death by a few of the more mercenary Brothers for his swanky gear a few days after arriving. 

Though this would not be the end of the story, and how could it be in GRRM's world where everything is so interconnected. Someone would tell, someone always tells... and the tale of the monstrosity delivered at Storm's End would spread far and wide throughout the realm, eventually reaching the ears of Rickard Stark. We know Rickard has "Southron Ambitions", but even he would question marrying his only daughter into a family whose seed is tainted, twisted, and now considered responsible for the birth of abominations. Therefore, betrothal between Lyanna and Robert would never happen, or would be annulled if it had already happened. The Baratheons would also flee to Essos to escape the shame and possible retribution coming to them for the birth of a fully grown man. 

Cut to the Tourney of Harrenhall... Rhaegar woos Lyanna with his song, then crowns her. Rhaegar, knowing Lyanna is not betrothed to anyone, approaches Rickard and asks for his daughter's hand in marriage. At first Rickard would be resistant... Rhaegar is already married, and Targaryens haven't practiced polygamy in 3 centuries... but in the end, "Southron Ambitions", so he'd agree to the match. Also, Brandon and Rhaegar become good friends during Brandon's wedding to Catelyn, bonding over their obvious love for the ladies. Brandon even asks Rhaegar to push for polygamy for all Nobles, or at least Lords Paramount, once he takes the throne, though nothing ever comes of this. 

There's obviously no "kidnapping" of Lyanna, no Brandon running to King's Landing, no Aerys having everyone killed etc. Instead Rhaegar is able to depose his father peacefully, with the support of the North (through his betrothal to Lyanna and friendship with Brandon), Riverlands (through Brandon's marriage to Catelyn), Dorne (marriage to Elia), and the Westerlands (Tywin thinks that if Rhaegar has 2 wives, why not 3, and Cersei's still available). He then reinstitutes the Targaryen practice of polygamy, marries Lyanna, and produces the Song of Ice and Fire. It stays on the Billboard Hot 100 for 17 years. 

From the Iron Throne, with a united realm, using the funds amassed by the Song, Rhaegar is able to prepare everyone for the coming Long Night... bolstering the Watch, finding the Others weaknesses, rallying everyone together, moving the Wildings south to deny the Others recruits, preparing the Wall and the North into a deathtrap for the Others. When the Others do arrive, 3 months of hard fighting sees them beaten back for another 1000 years. Everyone goes home happy. The end. 

[Ser Leftwich]

Everything would be different. (Another instance of the need to set up the sub-forum for aimless "what if this was completely different" items that do not add to the analysis of the books.)

[Megorova]

If we'll completely ignore, that with 19 years old Renly, as Lord-castellan of Storm's End, during its siege, Robert's Rebellion would have had entirely different ending, and if by the time of Jon Arryn's death in 298, things in royal court, and in Baratheon family, would have been similar, to how they were in the original timeline, then this would have been one of possible scenarios:

(entry data:

- even though Renly is one year older, and second son in Baratheon family, he is still gay, has the same personality, and is unmarried;

- somehow he still has good relationship with Tyrells, even though he was the Lord-castellan of beseiged Storm's End, when Mace Tyrell was feasting under castle walls, while people inside of it, were dying from hunger;

- even though Brienne, Loras and Margaery were born at the same time, as in the original timeline, they are still significant part of Renly's life. For example, even though Renly is 35, and Loras is 16, they are still lovers. And Brienne is one of Renly's bodyguards, from his Rainbow Guard;

- Stannis is also the same person, as he was in the original timeline - shitty personality, married with Selyse Florent, after Robert's Rebellion was made Prince of Dragonstone;

- Renly knows, that Cersei's children are bastards, though he doesn't run from King's Landing, at the time he did it in the original timeline, instead he stays and waits).

Until the right time, Renly pretends, that he doesn't know about Cersei X Jaime. He lets Lannisters to attack and imprison Ned. Then, after Robert's death, when Robb Stark and his bannermen are on their way to war against Lannisters, Renly, thru High Septon, announces, that Cersei's children are bastards. He secretly contacted Martells, and Baratheon fleet smuggled dornish troops into King's Landing. So Renly has immediate support of Martells and Tyrells, and is protected by Rainbow Guard, while main forces of Tywin Lannister are completely cut off from King's Landing, by northern troops of Robb Stark, Tully's riverman and Tyrell's reachmen.

Cersei and Jaime are executed for treason, incest, and what they did to Ned and his people. Would be good, if both were executed personally by Ned, with his Ice sword, that Lannisters stole from him. Joffrey is sent to The Wall, to join Night's Watch. Tommen is sent to Oldtown, to either become maester or septon. Littlefinger and Varys both executed, after being tortured, to get out of them all of their secrets. So people would know, that it wasn't Lannisters, who killed Jon Arryn. Lysa is forced to join Silent Sisters, and stripped of her title. Most likely, her son is actually child of Littlefinger, and not Jon Arryn's. So the title of The Vale's Lord and the Warden of The East is given to Harry the Heir. Even though Robert is not Arryn, he is still Hoster Tully's grandson, so he would have been sent to Riverrun, to be raised by his maternal grandfather, and uncle Edmure.

Renly would have given Martells a free go at Tywin, to do with him, whatever they want. Tywin would have been kept under siege in Casterly Rock, and eventually his own people would have given him away, to be personally executed by Oberyn Martell, together with The Mountain, and that second one, that killed Elia and her children. After that Tyrion would have been given Lordship of Westerlands, while his niece Myrcella Lannister would have been kept in Dorne, as a hostage of Martells.

To strengthen connection between 7K, Renly would have betrothed:

- Robb Stark to Arianne Martell;

- Arya Stark to either Quentyn or Trystane Martell, or to Edric Dayne - for a girl like Arya, it will be good, to live in a place like Dorne, with culture, more favourable for free-willed women;   

- Bran Stark to Shireen Baratheon. Who cares, that Shireen has grey scale? -> Bran is a criple. And Shireen is Robert's only niece, and Robert was Ned's best friend. Ned has five children, can't he spare at least one of them, for the sake of his friendship with Robert?

- Sansa Stark to Loras Tyrell;

- while Renly married with Margaery, and eventually thru her would have children, that will have shared with Loras genes (Margaery - "surrogate mother" for medieval gay couple).

There's too many highborn boys in 7K, and not enough of highborn girls.

Either way, there would have been no War of Five Kings, if Renly was older than Stannis. Stannis would have fully supported Renly. With Ned alive, Robb wouldn't have declared himself the King in The North. There would have been no betrayal from Greyjoys. Joffrey's and Cersei's rule wouldn't have lasted long enough for him, to be officially crowned. Furthermore, the day of his coronation, when lots of people would have gathered in King's Landing, to attent the ceremony, would have been a perfect moment, for Renly to enter the stage, and make his announcement. So instead of crowning Joffrey, High Septon would have crowned Renly. Renly would have been King, and Margaery his Queen. And Renly would have kept Ned Stark as his Hand. Because it was thanks to Ned's foolishness, that Renly became King of 7K.

[Dorian Martell's son]

17 hours ago, UFT said:

how does this affect the timeline?

The same way any other change makes the story totally different. 

 

[bent branch]

You mean what if Renly was Robert? After all, Robert was barely one year older than Stannis. (AGOT-Eddard VI)

[Valyrian Lance]

There is no reason to believe that even Robert's Rebellion would have turned out the same. Could Renly have withheld the siege as long as Stannis had? How does being a third son affect Stannis's character? Does being the second son and heir change Renly's at all? Does Renly even survive RR?

[kissdbyfire]

Completely different story, obviously. But if we're talking how the Stannis/Renly dynamics works out, Stannis would support Renly b/c that's what he's expected to do, it's his duty. He'd do it rolling his eyes (but only internally) and rightfully grinding his teeth all the way to the gums, but he'd do it. 

[Angel Eyes]

On 7/17/2018 at 8:41 PM, EloImFizzy said:

Stannis would have rallied behind Renly in the War of the Five Kings with the full might of both the Reach and the Stormlands, taken Kings landing and become King Renly. We know that he was fine with Robb keeping his title of King so long as he proclaims Renly as King of the Seven Kingdoms, so he would probably also have the North and the Riverlands on his side. Then everyone would go home and there would have been plenty of people to help fight the Others once they invade. 

Ned would back Renly. Since the younger brother bows to the elder, Stannis would back down.

[LordImp]

There's so many what if threads here now. GRRM you need to hurry.