Vhagar's Ghost Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I have only watched the show and read a few random chapters from the books, but how does book Jon compare to show Jon? I hear he is a lot more savvy and hard to fool, and impulsive. Is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli Cross Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Completely different characters. Very different people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 42 minutes ago, Vhagar's Ghost said: I have only watched the show and read a few random chapters from the books, but how does book Jon compare to show Jon? I hear he is a lot more savvy and hard to fool, and impulsive. Is he? I kind of got the impression that D&D saw that the general audience found Jon knowing nothing to be humorous, so they continued to make him a brainless idiot. Let me put it this way, I couldn't see book Jon falling for Ramsay's obvious trap, or continuing to kill wights whilst Daenerys and crew are waiting patiently for Jon to climb on the fucking dragon. They really are two different characters at this point. You said you've watched the show so I don't really need to talk about Show Jon, so to summarize Book Jon: - By the end of ADwD he is 17 years old. (Goes to the Nights Watch when he's 14) - Much more morally grey. I don't know if you plan on reading the books so I wont say anything more then that. - Smart and politically savvy. - He is a warg (like all the Stark children in the books), and according to one of the more experienced skinchanger wildlings, he is a pretty strong warg. - We know that he is good with a sword, but he himself hasn't really had to fight much. The only people we have seen him spar against are other people in the Nights Watch, and they are mostly thieves and rapists who had no previous sword training before coming to the Wall. And the only real hand to hand combat fight we've seen him in is when he went against Qhorin who was going easy on him, and Jon also had Ghost helping in the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhagar's Ghost Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, EloImFizzy said: - Much more morally grey. I don't know if you plan on reading the books so I wont say anything more then that. I probably won't read the books so you can go ahead if you'd like. I'm curious. Plus I spoiled myself on a bunch of the plot points in the book. If you're comfortable saying more that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Vhagar's Ghost said: I probably won't read the books so you can go ahead if you'd like. I'm curious. Plus I spoiled myself on a bunch of the plot points in the book. If you're comfortable saying more that is. There are a few minor incidents, but the three that stick out to me are: - In the books Mance has a son with a woman named Dalla, who dies in childbirth. Once Stannis rescues the Nights Watch and the wildlings are captured, the baby stays at Castle Black. Due to Mance being the King-beyond-the-wall Jon believes that Melisandre might try to burn the baby for his kings blood. So Jon forces Sam to go to the Citadel along with Maester Aemon, who also has kings blood, and Gilly and her baby, but he blackmails Gilly into taking Mance's son with her and leaving her son behind at the wall leaving everyone to believe he is Mance's son. - Jon only allows wildlings past the wall if they hand over their children as hostages to make sure the wildlings don't try any funny business. - The reason Jon gets stabbed in the books is because after receiving a message from Ramsay, Jon states he is going to go and kill Ramsay, and basically recruits the wildlings to fight beside him. Sure Ramsay is a cunt, and I'm sure you could argue that technically Ramsay is threatening the Nights Watch, but really Jon is just doing it for revenge against Ramsay. I think the reason Show Jon is written how he is, is because D&D didn't want the general audience to be butt hurt that Jon isn't this all loving, Captain America, shining white knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makk Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I think Elolm sums it up pretty well. The characters really diverge after he becomes lord commander. In fact some decisions are completely opposite. In the show Sam has to convince Jon he should become a maester but in the books Jon has to force him. In the show Jon argues to seal the gates of the wall shut but in the books he demands that they remain available for access to go north of the wall. The show also removed most of his relationship with Robb and Catelyn. There are numerous flashbacks in the books to help understand the dynamics of it, and I think they will be very important in the next book. Did they remove Robb's will from the show? There are hints Jon is somewhat of a berserker, or at least much more deadly and strong, when he is angry. He is normally on a par with Iron Emmett (best fighter at eastwatch) , but when he got angry one time he obliterates him. He also has amazing strength on a couple of other occasions when angry. The show basically removed all his gameplaying and passed it off to other characters like Davos or Sansa (neither of which are present the way they are in the show). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli Cross Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Vhagar's Ghost said: I probably won't read the books so you can go ahead if you'd like. I'm curious. Plus I spoiled myself on a bunch of the plot points in the book. If you're comfortable saying more that is. I beg you to read the books. Jon and the characters you watch on the show are soo different from how they are in the books. You are not reading the real characters. The ones you see on TV are created by the marketing department of HBO and the fan biases of Mr. Benioff, Weiss, and Cogman. You want the real characters? How about the real story? Read the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 27 minutes ago, Makk said: There are hints Jon is somewhat of a berserker, or at least much more deadly and strong, when he is angry. He is normally on a par with Iron Emmett (best fighter at eastwatch) , but when he got angry one time he obliterates him. He also has amazing strength on a couple of other occasions when angry. Oh Gods, I forgot about his berserker strength! xD Didn't he at one point lift Ser Alliser off the ground by his neck with one hand or something. Classic day at Castle Black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhagar's Ghost Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 16 minutes ago, EloImFizzy said: Oh Gods, I forgot about his berserker strength! xD Didn't he at one point lift Ser Alliser off the ground by his neck with one hand or something. Classic day at Castle Black. Holy shit, he what? Holy fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, Vhagar's Ghost said: Holy shit, he what? Holy fuck Yeah there have been moments in the books where Jon just goes into this berserker type rage in certain situations. - At one point, I cant remember the exact time but I think he was trying to escape from wildlings, Jon runs to a horse and lifts himself up one handed and gallops off. - Another time Ser Alliser pisses him off, so he marches up to him and lifts him off the ground with one hand by the neck and starts choking him out. - Then he is sparing with a man called Iron Emmett, who besides Jon is one of the best fighters in the Nights Watch. He starts thinking about something in his mind which makes him angry, and then he snaps back to reality and he is being dragged off of Emmett after not realising that Emmett had already been beaten and was trying to yield. Jon was just there wailing on him until some other men dragged him away. I'd like to point out that this was Jon at the age of about 15-16. xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhagar's Ghost Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 Omg, damn Jon. That's kinda scary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Vhagar's Ghost said: Omg, damn Jon I know right! xD Just talking about this makes me want to read the books again, I really would recommend reading them, they're so much better then the show. If you're not a fan of reading then I'd recommend the audio books. I got them for my second read through and pretty much just listened to them on break, or when walking home from college. Roy Dotrice does different voices for every character. Its really immersive. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubby Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 [MOD] No discussion of show stuff in the book threads. Ever. [/MOD] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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