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Angel Eyes

Why do the smallfolk support Cersei?

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So I'm not really sure why the smallfolk are cheering for Cersei in Season 7. She (and Joffrey) have given them a whole bunch of reasons over the years not to support her:

  • Her incestuous relationship with Jaime, which bred Joffrey "A rotten King!"
  • (Supposedly) ordering the massacre of Robert Baratheon's bastards 
  • Blowing up the Great Sept of Baelor, which killed the High Sparrow, who appeared to speak for the downtrodden
  • As part of the explosion, she killed the relatively popular Queen Margaery, her cousin Lancel, and her uncle Kevan, which makes her a kinslayer
  • Allying herself with Euron Greyjoy, King of the Iron Islands. Iron Islanders are... unpopular.

All in all, she's an incestuous kinslayer who oppresses the smallfolk, two things that would make her reviled and generally unpopular. And yet they cheer for her and Euron.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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19 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So I'm not really sure why the smallfolk are cheering for Cersei in Season 7. She (and Joffrey) have given them a whole bunch of reasons over the years not to support her:

  • Her incestuous relationship with Jaime, which bred Joffrey "A rotten King!"
  • (Supposedly) ordering the massacre of Robert Baratheon's bastards 
  • Blowing up the Great Sept of Baelor, which killed the High Sparrow, who appeared to speak for the downtrodden
  • As part of the explosion, she killed the relatively popular Queen Margaery, her cousin Lancel, and her uncle Kevan, which makes her a kinslayer
  • Allying herself with Euron Greyjoy, King of the Iron Islands. Iron Islanders are... unpopular.

All in all, she's an incestuous kinslayer who oppresses the smallfolk, two things that would make her reviled and generally unpopular. And yet they cheer for her and Euron.

A lot of season 7 goes against logic. Around season 5 I had to start turning my brain off and just wait for the OMG/"break the internet moments" and lots of CGI dragons. It's kinda sad. Still enjoy it, just in a different way.

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2 hours ago, btfu806 said:

A lot of season 7 goes against logic. Around season 5 I had to start turning my brain off and just wait for the OMG/"break the internet moments" and lots of CGI dragons. It's kinda sad. Still enjoy it, just in a different way.

True. And then some of the OMG moments were... anticlimactic.

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1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

True. And then some of the OMG moments were... anticlimactic.

Sadly, very true.

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On 7/19/2018 at 3:08 PM, Angel Eyes said:

So I'm not really sure why the smallfolk are cheering for Cersei in Season 7. She (and Joffrey) have given them a whole bunch of reasons over the years not to support her:

  • Her incestuous relationship with Jaime, which bred Joffrey "A rotten King!"
  • (Supposedly) ordering the massacre of Robert Baratheon's bastards 
  • Blowing up the Great Sept of Baelor, which killed the High Sparrow, who appeared to speak for the downtrodden
  • As part of the explosion, she killed the relatively popular Queen Margaery, her cousin Lancel, and her uncle Kevan, which makes her a kinslayer
  • Allying herself with Euron Greyjoy, King of the Iron Islands. Iron Islanders are... unpopular.

All in all, she's an incestuous kinslayer who oppresses the smallfolk, two things that would make her reviled and generally unpopular. And yet they cheer for her and Euron.

Maybe they don’t want to get roasted by a dragon. Cersei definatley had some very effective PR. 

Or maybe they just like parades of highborns brought to heel 

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As Jorah said, the smallfolk don't care of highborns, so far as they have food and peace to raise their children. Incest or who massacre who, they may care, but they will not risk their lives for it. They probably hate Cersei, fear her, but as they can't fight her, cheer her is probably the only way to have their peace. And so far, Daenerys is only promise of more war and fire and blood.

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16 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

As Jorah said, the smallfolk don't care of highborns, so far as they have food and peace to raise their children. 

They don't even have those.

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Smallfolk =/= population of Kings Landing.

We haven't seen any smallfolk actively cheering for Cersei. The vast majority most likely don't know and/or don't care, as long as they are left in peace. 
Those (few) who know what she's done probably don't like it but...what can they do?

We got a glimpse of what some of the smallfolk (at least in the Riverlands) think of Cersei:
The merchants don't care whats going on as long as it's good for business. 
Hotpie heard that Cersei had destroyed the Sept of Baelor and killed everyone in it, but had trouble believing it.
Hotpie's stance is probably pretty common. Rumours spread, some fake, some real, and the smallfolk either ignore them, distrust them or believe them but can't really do anything about it other than spreading the rumours to more people.

The Ed-Sheeran-company of Lannister soldiers also gave us a glimpse of how little the regular infantryman knows about what's actually going on, and that they just want to go home to their families. Your average peasant knows way less and is perfectly happy not getting dragged into something that will put them, their homes or their food at risk.

As Jorah put it in S1: 

The common people pray for rain, health and a summer that never ends. They don't care what games the high lords play.

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3 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

We haven't seen any smallfolk actively cheering for Cersei. The vast majority most likely don't know and/or don't care, as long as they are left in peace. 
Those (few) who know what she's done probably don't like it but...what can they do?

I mean, a part of their city and faith got blown up though.... so they aren't left in peace exactly. You're right that the population doesn't equal just the small folk. But it is weird that people are cheering through the streets for her and Euron. The rest of the stuff she does, you're right, people wouldn't care about.

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5 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Smallfolk =/= population of Kings Landing.

We haven't seen any smallfolk actively cheering for Cersei. The vast majority most likely don't know and/or don't care, as long as they are left in peace. 
Those (few) who know what she's done probably don't like it but...what can they do?

We got a glimpse of what some of the smallfolk (at least in the Riverlands) think of Cersei:
The merchants don't care whats going on as long as it's good for business. 
Hotpie heard that Cersei had destroyed the Sept of Baelor and killed everyone in it, but had trouble believing it.
Hotpie's stance is probably pretty common. Rumours spread, some fake, some real, and the smallfolk either ignore them, distrust them or believe them but can't really do anything about it other than spreading the rumours to more people.

The Ed-Sheeran-company of Lannister soldiers also gave us a glimpse of how little the regular infantryman knows about what's actually going on, and that they just want to go home to their families. Your average peasant knows way less and is perfectly happy not getting dragged into something that will put them, their homes or their food at risk.

As Jorah put it in S1: 
 

 

Good analysis. 

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Well, it's not entirely logical, but when the enemy's the daughter of Mad King Aerys with the kinslaying/kingslaying abomination as her Hand, the foreign eunuch as another advisor, allied with two Greyjoys and the women who killed their own lord and kin along with a southern child in cold blood, an army of foreign slavers and rapists and three dragons, then well, Cersei doesn't seem that bad in comparison.

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1 hour ago, WolfOfWinter said:

Well, it's not entirely logical, but when the enemy's the daughter of Mad King Aerys with the kinslaying/kingslaying abomination as her Hand, the foreign eunuch as another advisor, allied with two Greyjoys and the women who killed their own lord and kin along with a southern child in cold blood, an army of foreign slavers and rapists and three dragons, then well, Cersei doesn't seem that bad in comparison.

That seems pretty logical actually. Its not like the smallfolk are watching the show. Their version of events are likely very similar to the play Arya saw in Bravos where Tyrion was portrayed as worse than Richard III. 

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@Angel Eyes

It's a massive plot hole.

Season 7 Cersei is supposed to be a stand-in for Aegon as well as an adaptation of DreamCersei.

By the time Aegon comes to King's Landing, the people are going to fall in love with him because they hate and fear Cersei so much. So when Daenerys comes, it'll be the daughter of the Mad King, her apocalyptic beasts and her nightmarish, foreign hordes versus their beloved king and their fellow countrymen.

In the books, Cersei will likely be on the other side of the continent hiding under a (Casterly) Rock.

In season 7, people should be starving and cold, rioting, refusing to leave their homes or fleeing the city...

...yet they seem to be pretty damn happy and comfortable. Even though the show had already established that King's Landing cannot support itself and the Tyrells were capable of completely starving the city for sh!#s and giggles whenever they so choose...

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40 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

@Angel Eyes

It's a massive plot hole.

Season 7 Cersei is supposed to be a stand-in for Aegon as well as an adaptation of DreamCersei.

By the time Aegon comes to King's Landing, the people are going to fall in love with him because they hate and fear Cersei so much. So when Daenerys comes, it'll be the daughter of the Mad King, her apocalyptic beasts and her nightmarish, foreign hordes versus their beloved king and their fellow countrymen.

In the books, Cersei will likely be on the other side of the continent hiding under a (Casterly) Rock.

In season 7, people should be starving and cold, rioting, refusing to leave their homes or fleeing the city...

...yet they seem to be pretty damn happy and comfortable. Even though the show had already established that King's Landing cannot support itself and the Tyrells were capable of completely starving the city for sh!#s and giggles whenever they so choose...

I think Cersei's a favorite of D&D, alongside Ramsay. Though I thought Jon was the stand-in for Rhaegar's son Aegon...

The plot hole's big enough for 20 good men.;)

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31 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

I think Cersei's a favorite of D&D, alongside Ramsay. Though I thought Jon was the stand-in for Rhaegar's son Aegon...

The plot hole's big enough for 20 good men.;)

Cersei is a clear favorite of the showrunners, it's true. But Cersei is a compelling character with a couple of layers and a purpose, unlike Ramsay. And Cersei is portrayed by a fine top-class actress...unlike Ramsay.

Cersei is a stand-in for fAegon/Aegon VI as the one who sits on the Iron Throne as Daenerys' opponent and the one who employs the Golden Company.

Jon is going to be revealed as the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna; however, the showrunners gave Jon the name Aegon to pay homage to the books (even though it is yet another mark of bad writing). If they aren't just paying homage, then naming Jon Aegon means that they are going to try to adapt the Targaryen vs. Targaryen element that is going to happen in the books into season 8.

In other words, they are going to try and give Jon a compelling character arc as well as inject drama into Daenerys' character arc as well as her relationship with Jon for the final season. A bit cheap, tawdry and "too little, too late" for me but hey.

So think of it like this:

Cersei Lannister + Aegon as the Lord of the Seven Kingdoms = season 7 and (undoubtedly) parts of season 8 Cersei

Jon Snow x Aegon as Aegon Targaryen, Daenerys' last remaining blood relative = season 8 Jon

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1 hour ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Cersei is a clear favorite of the showrunners, it's true. But Cersei is a compelling character with a couple of layers and a purpose, unlike Ramsay. And Cersei is portrayed by a fine top-class actress...unlike Ramsay.

Cersei is a stand-in for fAegon/Aegon VI as the one who sits on the Iron Throne as Daenerys' opponent and the one who employs the Golden Company.

Jon is going to be revealed as the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna; however, the showrunners gave Jon the name Aegon to pay homage to the books (even though it is yet another mark of bad writing). If they aren't just paying homage, then naming Jon Aegon means that they are going to try to adapt the Targaryen vs. Targaryen element that is going to happen in the books into season 8.

In other words, they are going to try and give Jon a compelling character arc as well as inject drama into Daenerys' character arc as well as her relationship with Jon for the final season. A bit cheap, tawdry and "too little, too late" for me but hey.

So think of it like this:

Cersei Lannister + Aegon as the Lord of the Seven Kingdoms = season 7 and (undoubtedly) parts of season 8 Cersei

Jon Snow x Aegon as Aegon Targaryen, Daenerys' last remaining blood relative = season 8 Jon

Ramsay’s main purpose is to be a foil to Jon Snow. And not like his actions in the books have had any long-term repercussions; so far, he’s gotten off scot-free. It’s just more obvious in the show, when he wrecks an army with 20 men and comes out of a melee unscathed.

Maybe Jon is supposed to be the equivalent of King Arthur, a bastard who became a King.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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5 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Ramsay’s main purpose is to be a foil to Jon Snow. And not like his actions in the books have had any long-term repercussions; so far, he’s gotten off scot-free. It’s just more obvious in the show, when he wrecks an army with 20 men and comes out of a melee unscathed.

Maybe Jon is supposed to be the equivalent of King Arthur, a bastard who became a King.

If that's what the show wanted to do, then they failed disastrously.

The show could have done a better job of foiling Jon against Ramsay by emphasizing (or even mentioning) the effect that being a bastard in the North had on Ramsay.

 

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On 7/23/2018 at 8:23 PM, WolfOfWinter said:

Well, it's not entirely logical, but when the enemy's the daughter of Mad King Aerys with the kinslaying/kingslaying abomination as her Hand, the foreign eunuch as another advisor, allied with two Greyjoys and the women who killed their own lord and kin along with a southern child in cold blood, an army of foreign slavers and rapists and three dragons, then well, Cersei doesn't seem that bad in comparison.

Plus a whole army of eunuchs. 

Though Cersei does have another Greyjoy as an ally who is also a kinslayer, and it isn't like Cersei hasn't killed her own kin before...

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it's funny because the smallfolk not revolting makes more sense than the rest of the nobility not doing it. Winter is here and they highkey depend now on their rulers to survive

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On 7/19/2018 at 6:08 PM, Angel Eyes said:

So I'm not really sure why the smallfolk are cheering for Cersei in Season 7. She (and Joffrey) have given them a whole bunch of reasons over the years not to support her:

  • Her incestuous relationship with Jaime, which bred Joffrey "A rotten King!"
  • (Supposedly) ordering the massacre of Robert Baratheon's bastards 
  • Blowing up the Great Sept of Baelor, which killed the High Sparrow, who appeared to speak for the downtrodden
  • As part of the explosion, she killed the relatively popular Queen Margaery, her cousin Lancel, and her uncle Kevan, which makes her a kinslayer
  • Allying herself with Euron Greyjoy, King of the Iron Islands. Iron Islanders are... unpopular.

All in all, she's an incestuous kinslayer who oppresses the smallfolk, two things that would make her reviled and generally unpopular. And yet they cheer for her and Euron.

LOL, because that never happens in real life........

Except it does, all the time. Witness Kim Jong Un, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Putin, or any other number of current leaders. All you have to do is to sell the populace on the idea that the current conditions are the result of this foreign evil, mix in some home town pride, and you can deceive the uneducated mass's quite easily.  

Edited by Error-504

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