Varysblackfyre321 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Jaimie joined the kingsguard at 15 yes? Could one make the case he had no right to take such oaths without Tywin's consent? Did Jon really need Ned's consent to join the watch? Or such a concept just too modern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 It was Aerys Targaryen's decision to make him a Kingsguard in order to steal away Tywin's heir. Would you be willing to make a case to the Mad King who burns people who disagree with him? Once the Robert Baratheon was on the throne I'm sure if Jaime really wanted off the Kingsguard then it could have been arranged, but he said himself that he has no interest in being the heir to Casterly Rock. And apparently if he didn't join the Kingsguard there were talks of him having to marry Lysa Tully, so I'd consider it a lucky break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderforge Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 An oath is an oath, deeper and older than mere law. Law is only decided and enforced by the person who happens to be at the top. Oaths are enforced by the gods! Interesting that joining the Kingsguard (and the Watch) requires an oath, rather than just signing a contract. Although joining a regiment probably requires an oath, probably a pre-written one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 12 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Jaimie joined the kingsguard at 15 yes? Could one make the case he had no right to take such oaths without Tywin's consent? Did Jon really need Ned's consent to join the watch? Or such a concept just too modern? Not like Ned had any other choice. Jon wasn’t going to King’s Landing, and Catelyn was going to kick Jon out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 12 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Or such a concept just too modern? Such a concept is too modern. Universal consent laws are far beyond Westeros. Maybe a powerful lord could make some kind of excuse saying that his children were too young to make decisions for themselves, maybe the High Septon can be persuaded to absolve the oath-takers, but without that, sadly, there's nothing saying someone is too young to make decisions for themselves. A girl is able to be a mother as soon as her physical body catches up, it's nothing to do with an age of maturity or consent. It's a rather primitive society, and given that it hasn't changed for at least 8,000 years, it's rather worrisome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 12 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Such a concept is just too modern Fixd it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Jaime was already knighted. Could he have taken the oaths of a knight without a permission slip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 It seems minors can take all manner of vows - marriage vows, knightly vows, Kingsguard vows. It is kind of odd, though, in light of the fact that such people usually cannot rule in their own right - neither kingdoms nor lordships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Tyrions marriage was annulled because he was not of age to marry without consent, so the concept is there, its not too modern. Jaime was told his oath to Cat was void because it was made with a threat and at swordpoint. Ironicly his oath of knighthood to Arthur Dayne and kingsguard to Aerys was made at swordpoint along with all other knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Hugorfonics said: Tyrions marriage was annulled because he was not of age to marry without consent, so the concept is there, its not too modern. Jaime was told his oath to Cat was void because it was made with a threat and at swordpoint. Ironicly his oath of knighthood to Arthur Dayne and kingsguard to Aerys was made at swordpoint along with all other knights. There is no such thing as not being of age to marry. Look at Ermesande Hayford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: There is no such thing as not being of age to marry. Look at Ermesande Hayford. To be fair that seems more like a long-standing bethrothal-I don't even think Tywin would have ordered Tyrek to actually bed an infant-which kinda doesn't make it a real marriage till he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 18 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: There is no such thing as not being of age to marry. Look at Ermesande Hayford. Well she has no parents to give their consent, so the king makes the decision instead. Like when 11 year old fatherless Sansa gets married, Joffrey fills in for her father. When Ramsay got married Theon had to give away the bride, presumably because Arya is still a child, in contrast to his first marriage where no one had to give up Lady Hornwood. So I do think theres parental consent required for children marriages. For the other vows where you swear for life, parents seem to have no control. Only kings like Joffrey or Robb can erase a KG or NW oath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Just now, Hugorfonics said: Well she has no parents to give their consent, so the king makes the decision instead. Like when 11 year old fatherless Sansa gets married, Joffrey fills in for her father. When Ramsay got married Theon had to give away the bride, presumably because Arya is still a child, in contrast to his first marriage where no one had to give up Lady Hornwood. So Ramsay beds an 11 year old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Angel Eyes said: So Ramsay beds an 11 year old? How olds Jeyne? Sansas age i think. And adwd is roughly one year after asos. So basically, 12 or 13 would be my guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: How olds Jeyne? Sansas age i think. And adwd is roughly one year after asos. So basically, 12 or 13 would be my guess Arya is 11. And if Jeyne is supposed to be Arya... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Angel Eyes said: And Arya is 11. Right, but hes not really bedding Arya. Thats just what everyone thinks. Jeyne said shes had her period, i dont think Aryas had. I doubt Roose or Ramsay would care if they had the real Arya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: Arya is 11. And if Jeyne is supposed to be Arya... I doubt anyone knows exactly how old Arya really is, just that she is younger than Sansa, who is younger than Robb, who would be 16 at this time. Jeyne at this point is around 13. In a medieval society like Westeros, chronological age is often a matter of guesswork in any event, especially for smallfolk ,but even sometimes for highborns. For example, I doubt that Gendry or Hot Pie could tell you how old they were even if you asked them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 An holy oath is an oath . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 It comes down to what can be enforced. The Baratheon-Lannister's had possession of Sansa, so they could marry her off. If Robb had somehow won and gotten Sansa back, he would have annulled the marriage. The crown was in possession of Ermesande Hayford, therefore, the crown could make the marriage. If someone powerful enough to enforce the backtracking of any vow shows up, the vow can be backtracked, regardless of age or anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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