Darth Richard II Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 If I remember correctly the actress who played Walsh wanted out of the show real early (I forget why) and they had to jettison a lot of stuff. Same thing with Oz when Seth Green has scheduling conflicts later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Season 4 felt lost because none of the girls knew what their college majors were, and when that happens you invariably get roped into the military industrial complex and now you're dating a major. College. Some of your friends peel off to join the Raider Nation suddenly, while others go lesbian. Adam wasn't sexy like other villains but i respect the concept of piles of torn up body parts being converted into build-a-bear monster armies. The mayor was a boob in the sense that he captivated me but also had me wondering why. Glory was everything people don't like about white people. Glorious. Didn't Ben ever wonder why body wash and other femme products kept showing up in his bathroom? And who better than Willow to get addicted, she really relied on the wicca. ...The nerds! ...The slayerettes. Too bad Iyari Limon never found a niche in hollywood outside of this show. She was inspiring. The first evil was a jerk, i felt. Also, JASMINE! The greatest female character since Inca Mummy Girl. Long may she devour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 6 hours ago, Lord Varys said: I get it now - Ben is Glory and Glory is Ben! Still said that the girl had to go, though. Gods should not die. Ben is Glory???? sorry, couldn't resist. Laughed at Adam having either a zip drive or a floppy drive in his chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Oh, it was a zip drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Oh, didn't know that about the Walsh actress. But the buildup at the beginning is still pretty off. All that stuff about Spike and the Angel crossovers and later the Faith two-parter is interesting, but it slows things down. I think we are close to episode 10 before they even realize that there is a secret organization in town. The entire thing could have worked much better if the Initiative had been a watcher-supported answer to Buffy's decision to tell them go fuck themselves back in season 3. That would have added more potential for tension on a personal level. The Walsh woman could have been Giles' mother or ex-wife, for instance, etc. The magic addiction thing is just silly because it didn't properly explore what people who actually have very powerful magical powers might do, and because it went against everything that had been established about magic before. There was no talk ever that too much magic might be bad simply because it was magic. Willow becoming evil on the basis of emotional crises and bad mojo, basically, also didn't take things as far as it could have taken them. Differences in philosophy/morals could have been much more powerful than that and could have made the emotional resolution via Xander much more touching, too. Adam is actually remarkably interesting whenever I re-watch the season, but he just doesn't get enough screen time. They should have either kept Walsh longer and make she and Adam the big bads, or they should have introduced Adam much earlier. A lot of the 'experimenting on demons' stuff could have been rushed if they had delved into the stuff much earlier. And the use of Spike until the love story thing starts in season 5 was a pretty big waste, too. There was no good internal reason to keep him around. He was a monster, and just the fact that he cannot physically hurt anyone shouldn't have earned him a free pass. Especially not after what he pulled off in the past. Anya always was the natural successor of/replacement for Cordelia. But it takes them quite some time to realize this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 I loved Buffy up until season 5, but I always viewed Angel as the better of the two shows. Once season 3 started, I always felt that Angel's cast had more chemistry and I loved how everyone added something to the team dynamic; Lorne, Wesley and Fred being my favorites. Speaking of season 3, I think that was Buffy's best as well. The Mayor still remains one of my favorite villains in just about anything. A bit worried about this remake, considering nearly every remake sucks, with The Thing, Dawn of the Dead and The Fly being the only major exceptions, IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Heh, i HATE season 3 of angel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 22 hours ago, Darth Richard II said: If I remember correctly the actress who played Walsh wanted out of the show real early (I forget why) and they had to jettison a lot of stuff. Same thing with Oz when Seth Green has scheduling conflicts later on. I hadn't heard that before. Lindsay Crouse was a bit of a coup for the show, she was an Oscar nominee and had quite an excellent career (her very first screen role being in All the President's Men), even if she wasn't a household name, and she had several movies coming out in 1999-2000 which may have intersected with the Buffy schedule (particularly The Insider). That said, she did come back later in the season (albeit as one of Adam's zombies), so clearly they worked something out. Quote I loved Buffy up until season 5, but I always viewed Angel as the better of the two shows. Once season 3 started, I always felt that Angel's cast had more chemistry and I loved how everyone added something to the team dynamic; Lorne, Wesley and Fred being my favorites. I think what happened with Angel vs Buffy is similar to what happened with DS9 vs TNG. When the spin-off started you had a chunk of the established team, with their 4-5 years of experience, moving onto the new show: writers, actors, production crew, whilst the old show kept trucking along. Both Angel and DS9 benefited from their creators landing on their feet with experience and knowing how to make the show and just getting straight into it. Both Angel and DS9 had much shorter bedding-in periods than their parent shows (Buffy didn't get reliably good until Season 2, TNG until Season 3) as a result and learned from their choices, such as Angel having an over-arcing threat across the entire series (Wolfram & Hart) as well as season-level enemies and DS9 implementing rules limiting technobabble and banning holodeck malfunctions. Both shows may have also benefited from the original showrunner (Joss Whedon/Rick Berman) taking a more hands-off approach and leaving a trusted and talented subordinate (David Greenwalt/Ira Behr) in charge. I also think Angel benefited from having 2 less seasons to work with. There's a few warning signs in Season 5 (particular the big drop in intensity and drama from Season 4) that the show might have outlived its quality level, so going out in Season 5 rather than Season 7 may have been the better choice. I know a few people who feel that Buffy should have also ended in Season 5, although I think there's enough good episodes in S6 and 7 to justify it carrying on. Quote A bit worried about this remake, considering nearly every remake sucks, with The Thing, Dawn of the Dead and The Fly being the only major exceptions, IMO I think that there is scope for either a remake or a sequel to work, although the latter has a lot of problems to overcome. The main one is the vampires ageing; you can't do a sequel without Spike and Angel at least cameoing, and unless de-ageing CG has become viable for TV, Boreanaz and Marsters (who is almost 60!) are clearly a lot older than they were in the show. Otherwise you'd have to do some kind of exposition about something happening and turning them back human or something...it's all a bit too much and contrived. That said, just as Buffy explored being a teenager and in your early twenties and Angel explored more of an adult, urban life, there may be scope for a sequel to say something about hitting middle age (fun fact: Sarah Michelle Gellar is now the same age Kristine Sutherland, playing her mother, was in the first season of Buffy). I'm also not a massive fan of this trend for shows and films with male leads to get sequels even 30 years later but shows and films with female leads seem to require rebooting the second the actresses hit 40 (the demand to remake Xena a few years ago with new actresses when Lucy Lawless was kicking the absolute shit out of everyone in Ash vs. Evil Dead in her mid-forties was particularly ridiculous). A remake may also be viable, which I was more sceptical about before starting the rewatch. 20 years past the start of the previous version of the franchise is enough time to start talking about remaking the show (BSG was 25 years, Buffy is currently at 22 years, 23 if you count the fact they shot Season 1 a lot earlier than they showed it for odd scheduling reasons) and the original show has a lot of plot holes from the spotty, make-it-up-as-you-go worldbuilding. If they somehow recaptured the tone of the original show in a modern context, it could work quite well. Although it's amusing to note that about a third of the stories in the original probably would have not happened if everyone had just had cellphones (and by Seasons 6-7, it's a stretch why they haven't). The main issue is if a modern remake could tick all the boxes of the original, being funny, extremely dramatic and very intense when required and not just making a generic MOR YA urban fantasy/horror show. 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The Mother of The Others Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 There may already be something on TV that beat this remake to the punch if you can stomach Legacies on CW. It gots the youths with big hair, the mostly tolerable script with angsty fools learning life lessons kind of like Tutie used to on The Facts of Life, only with all kinds of monsters and magic thrown in and concepts you'd expect from Supernatural. Maybe buff buff could BE the mom. (!) Two generational focus! Content for us old fogies and obligatory teens for the teens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 16 minutes ago, The Mother of The Others said: There may already be something on TV that beat this remake to the punch if you can stomach Legacies on CW. It gots the youths with big hair, the mostly tolerable script with angsty fools learning life lessons kind of like Tutie used to on The Facts of Life, only with all kinds of monsters and magic thrown in and concepts you'd expect from Supernatural. Maybe buff buff could BE the mom. (!) Two generational focus! Content for us old fogies and obligatory teens for the teens. I tried to give Legacies a try once and I just couldn't. I think after the first episode I was done with the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 11 hours ago, Werthead said: Although it's amusing to note that about a third of the stories in the original probably would have not happened if everyone had just had cellphones (and by Seasons 6-7, it's a stretch why they haven't). I think for a remake/sequel they might have to come up with some explanation that supernatural things interfere with cellphone reception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 1 hour ago, williamjm said: I think for a remake/sequel they might have to come up with some explanation that supernatural things interfere with cellphone reception. It works for Harry Dresden - another show I'm eagerly awaiting updates on since they announced they were having another crack at adapting it for tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 I'd have liked a prequel show set in the dark ages/medieval times. Maybe a subplot where the watchers council is behind the persecution of witches, and the slayer has to pick a side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 If it's a spinoff, I don't want the main character called Buffy. It could be almost any other name on the planet and I'd be fine, but let Buffy at least be her own separate character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said: I'd have liked a prequel show set in the dark ages/medieval times. Maybe a subplot where the watchers council is behind the persecution of witches, and the slayer has to pick a side. Enticing. In addition to having a guilty past like that, could the council be the underground railroad for white hat witches as well, dividing the council into a civil war within itself? There could be a hero organization fighting to limit the power of kings and suffering greatly for it, so they'd look like you're supposed to cheer for them, then it's revealed that they're the Wolf , the Ram, and the Hart of that era and their idea of victory is to create a world where there can be lawyers, and we get to see the emergence of them as the real power behind the thrones. A D'Hoffran type demon insider character to liase between all the witchy witches who'd summon him, someone to tie all those stand alone plots into a cohesive demon agenda. ... + Early Anyanka! In full demon face so no visible aging problems! More demon cults whose traditions are still intact (better chances of bringing back true demons to the world). More slayer origin content. Here a black-ish slayer could yet have closer ties to North Africa / Egypt (Older monster varieties! From before vampires became the main monster * (see below)), and she could be the Crusades Movie type character who has one foot in each culture, so you could do modern commentary while showing old world race relations problems. (Like how Trek uses alien relations to address racism, etc.) How would a powerful woman need to disguise herself whilst traveling? What excuses would the average villaige need to hear to make her presence acceptable? The knights templar are being over exposed lately, huh? So maybe just one episode about them? Or a two parter big deal cliffhanger. Angelus wasn't born yet, huh? Because if you wanted to recast him, just cover part of his face with a wig and facial hair and the rest with dim lighting and there you go. One big bad Disease devil spreading the plague, but that's been done to death already, so... A devil intent on splintering the One Church into lots of smaller denominations to undermine religion and speed up the onset of secularism. The team defeats one of his attempts but it ends with him laughing once they are made to foresee the inevitability of his victory, as the audience well knows. * The religious source of the original dracula vampire curse!! Like christ was neo from the matrix, and Dracula was agent smith, the necessary opposite effect to balance the equation, or The Anti-One. Uhhhhh, I'll stop now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I'm usually against prequels but the medieval setting and ideas suggested actually sound far more enticing than a contemporary show/remake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen'ari Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 On 2/9/2019 at 4:33 AM, The Mother of The Others said: Season 4 felt lost because none of the girls knew what their college majors were, and when that happens you invariably get roped into the military industrial complex and now you're dating a major. College. Some of your friends peel off to join the Raider Nation suddenly, while others go lesbian. Adam wasn't sexy like other villains but i respect the concept of piles of torn up body parts being converted into build-a-bear monster armies. The mayor was a boob in the sense that he captivated me but also had me wondering why. Glory was everything people don't like about white people. Glorious. Didn't Ben ever wonder why body wash and other femme products kept showing up in his bathroom? And who better than Willow to get addicted, she really relied on the wicca. ...The nerds! ...The slayerettes. Too bad Iyari Limon never found a niche in hollywood outside of this show. She was inspiring. The first evil was a jerk, i felt. Also, JASMINE! The greatest female character since Inca Mummy Girl. Long may she devour. What, no love for Drusilla :P . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 The problem is that to a general audience "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" is a familiar brand name. "xxx the Vampire Slayer" is not, and Fox will want to use that name recognition factor to maximise ker-ching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Huh, does Disney own this now or is Fox TV separate? I can never that that straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 13 hours ago, Werthead said: The problem is that to a general audience "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" is a familiar brand name. "xxx the Vampire Slayer" is not, and Fox will want to use that name recognition factor to maximise ker-ching. Doesn't this mean the show has to be a remake? The chances of another slayer being called buffy seems slim unless they called the child buffy knowing she'd become a slayer. I guess there are plenty of uk detective shows that keep the leads name yet don't feature the character though. That or the clunky yet accurate "btvs: TNG" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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