Do you think Balon got off too light?

[Varysblackfyre321]

It seems foolish to allow a man with clear ambitions for secesion to remain in power; especially since he only bent the literaly after he was utterly defeated and his was broken through.

I would think it'd be wise to send him to the watch, or take him as hostage instead of Theon. And same goes for Euron(. 

Theon should have been given to the reader, or at the very least Victorien(an honorble and stupid man), till he comes of age. 

[LindsayLohan]

It wasn't Robert's way.  I know this will turn into a huge argument involving Tywin, Joffrey, and everyone else on the planet, but Robert made loyal subjects out of his enemies, and expected the same would happen with Balon.  I think the difference in this matter was cultural, with the Ironborn following their Drowned God and the Old Way, which is in stark contrast to the remainder of Westeros.  Balon's father was a reformer, Balon was a freaking nutjob.

Still, I think he should have taken Balon's head, then had Theon fostered with Ned and married to a Stark bannerman's child.  Rodrik the Reader would have made a fine Lord Protector (in name only) until Theon came of age. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

I definitely think that all the big lords of the Iron Isles should have had to foster their children on the mainland.  This cold create a generation of more reasonable lords.

I myself personally would have also sacked a few castles altogether just to get at their Valyrian steal swords.

[Euron III Greyjoy]

Some of his Lords probably advised it, but Robert was never one to plan for the future rather then the present. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Robert was secretly hoping Balon would start a war again. The only time Robert really felt alive was when he was fighting. 

[Lion of the West]

10 hours ago, LindsayLohan said:

It wasn't Robert's way.  I know this will turn into a huge argument involving Tywin, Joffrey, and everyone else on the planet, but Robert made loyal subjects out of his enemies, and expected the same would happen with Balon.  I think the difference in this matter was cultural, with the Ironborn following their Drowned God and the Old Way, which is in stark contrast to the remainder of Westeros.  Balon's father was a reformer, Balon was a freaking nutjob.

Still, I think he should have taken Balon's head, then had Theon fostered with Ned and married to a Stark bannerman's child.  Rodrik the Reader would have made a fine Lord Protector (in name only) until Theon came of age. 

I agree pretty much entirely.

And my own thoughts are that...

Robert was successful with turning the Reach and all loyalist lords outside of Dorne to his banner, so why wouldn't it work with the Iron Islands, from what they knew then? Besides if he keeps Balon, then he keeps a man who knows he's already been beaten once and the Greyjoys, with their like 300 years reign of rule makes it more likely that Theon will take his father's titles upon the later's death so that Eddard would indeed have groomed a Lord Paramount of the Iron Islands accoring to the wishes of the Iron Throne, as opposed to have some wild card claim Pyke.

If Robert would put a new guy in charge, then that guy will not have the same legitimacy, and odds are that someone else will say "I can do it better than Balon" and rise in rebellion to do what Balon could not.

And from a meta perspective Balon's death would only hasten the return of Euron and I think that we all can see the value of keeping Euron far away. If the Reader is made the new Lord Paramount of the Iron Islands, how much respect will he be able to commandeer once Euron arrives to challenge him? My guess is that it won't be very much. The same naturally goes with Theon as well so the big (meta) question is, who could they put on the throne who would both be able to hold the Ironborn away from the pull of Euron and also not go Balon-like stupid? Asha could work, but she would have been a small child at the time and not yet have recieved the grooming for leadership she got from Balon after the Greyjoy Rebellion.

[Angel Eyes]

Theoretically, Robert paid the Iron Price by suppressing the Greyjoy Rebellion through strength, something that Balon should appreciate. He lost fair and square.

[Stormking902]

As many have said Robert makes friends out of bitter enemys its his natural born gift and has worked for him many times in the past, the bennefits of allowing Balon to keep his head and lordship is as follows.

1) Balon is defeated and has bent the knee physically infront of his bannerman and the other nobility of Westeros, id Balon rebelled again he would look like an oathbreaker AND weak so swaying the other IB lords to his cause would be hard. 

2) Theon is a ward of the Ned and will be fine tuned to be pro Robert like Ned is. 

3) Balon lost two sons in the war and Ned has taken his last son, its a logical assumption to believe Balon doesnt want to lose his last sons head do to his shitty decisions. 

4) It would take YEARS for the IB to recover from the complete total beat down Robert just laid them, IB have almost no wood to replace there all powerful Iron Fleet. 

5) If they rebelled again Robert would laugh call for his Ale and war hammer and destroy Balon again, hell maybe Robert loses some weight. 

[Hugorfonics]

Balon played his cards right, as per Tywinisim when enemies bend the knee, they should be helped back up. The thing is, its clearly not in Baratheon interest

28 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

As many have said Robert makes friends out of bitter enemys its his natural born gift and has worked for him many times in the past, the bennefits of allowing Balon to keep his head and lordship is as follows.

1) Balon is defeated and has bent the knee physically infront of his bannerman and the other nobility of Westeros, id Balon rebelled again he would look like an oathbreaker AND weak so swaying the other IB lords to his cause would be hard. 

2) Theon is a ward of the Ned and will be fine tuned to be pro Robert like Ned is. 

3) Balon lost two sons in the war and Ned has taken his last son, its a logical assumption to believe Balon doesnt want to lose his last sons head do to his shitty decisions. 

4) It would take YEARS for the IB to recover from the complete total beat down Robert just laid them, IB have almost no wood to replace there all powerful Iron Fleet. 

5) If they rebelled again Robert would laugh call for his Ale and war hammer and destroy Balon again, hell maybe Robert loses some weight. 

 1. But swaying the other IB lords wasnt hard. He was their king again with seemingly no resistance.

2. Theon despised Ned and probably Robert too

3. But his ships were already docked for war in acok, and Cat theorizes Balon would fight no matter where Theon was

4. But it didnt

5. As soon as Robert died he rebelled

 

Killing or sending Balon to the wall would just destabilize the Islands which would make room for some madman to seize power. Furthermore it would make no enemy bend the knee to Robert again. He had enemies, if not Dorne or the GC then Viserys. Balon was a smart man.

[Stormking902]

24 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Balon played his cards right, as per Tywinisim when enemies bend the knee, they should be helped back up. The thing is, its clearly not in Baratheon interest

 1. But swaying the other IB lords wasnt hard. He was their king again with seemingly no resistance.

2. Theon despised Ned and probably Robert too

3. But his ships were already docked for war in acok, and Cat theorizes Balon would fight no matter where Theon was

4. But it didnt

5. As soon as Robert died he rebelled

 

Killing or sending Balon to the wall would just destabilize the Islands which would make room for some madman to seize power. Furthermore it would make no enemy bend the knee to Robert again. He had enemies, if not Dorne or the GC then Viserys. Balon was a smart man.

Man did you read the books at all? 

 

1) (spoliers)...................Robert dies and then Balon again crowns himself king of the Iron islands, he waited for Roberts death and for the Baratheon brothers and Lannisters to fight over the I.T Before he crowned himself again. I said he physically bent the knee to ROBERT, please read to acheive.

2) Theon idolized Ned and deep down wanted to be a Stark and a child of the Neds. When he spoke out its because he was being a child and realising he is a Greyjoy and never will be a Stark to his sadness. Where in the books does he dispise Ned?.

3) I said one would assume......... How is Robert suppose to know Balons son is pretty much worthless to him? Most men would want to keep there last remaining son and heir safe no? AGAIN please read 

4) BUT IT DID actually.............

5) exactly mt point thank you when Robert dies ....... God some people's kids. 

 

[aryagonnakill#2]

57 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Balon played his cards right, as per Tywinisim when enemies bend the knee, they should be helped back up. The thing is, its clearly not in Baratheon interest

 1. But swaying the other IB lords wasnt hard. He was their king again with seemingly no resistance.

2. Theon despised Ned and probably Robert too

3. But his ships were already docked for war in acok, and Cat theorizes Balon would fight no matter where Theon was

4. But it didnt

5. As soon as Robert died he rebelled

 

Killing or sending Balon to the wall would just destabilize the Islands which would make room for some madman to seize power. Furthermore it would make no enemy bend the knee to Robert again. He had enemies, if not Dorne or the GC then Viserys. Balon was a smart man.

Theon definitely loved Ned, he wanted to marry Sansa so he could be Neds son for real, he says it himself.

25 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

Man did you read the books at all? 

 

1) (spoliers)...................Robert dies and then Balon again crowns himself king of the Iron islands, he waited for Roberts death and for the Baratheon brothers and Lannisters to fight over the I.T Before he crowned himself again. I said he physically bent the knee to ROBERT, please read to acheive.

2) Theon idolized Ned and deep down wanted to be a Stark and a child of the Neds. When he spoke out its because he was being a child and realising he is a Greyjoy and never will be a Stark to his sadness. Where in the books does he dispise Ned?.

3) I said one would assume......... How is Robert suppose to know Balons son is pretty much worthless to him? Most men would want to keep there last remaining son and heir safe no? AGAIN please read 

4) BUT IT DID actually.........….

5) exactly mt point thank you when Robert dies ....... God some people's kids. 

 

You too may have a different definition of a long time on this, time is relative.  I know your words weren't "a long time" but when you capitalized years that seems to be what you are suggesting.  While it literally took years, we don't actually know how long before the war the fleet was built, and 9 years is arguably not all that long of a time.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

He surrendered and gave hostages.  When a former enemy bends the knee you help him up.  Otherwise, future enemies will never surrender and will choose to continue fighting, knowing they will never be forgiven.  Bending the knee doesn't have to mean they grew to love one another.  It's not hugs and kisses.  It's just a way to help smooth things and mend the rift that existed.  Just check out the thread called "the execution of Janos Slynt was unjust" and read how Jon killed a man who first resisted and later did the equivalent of bending the knees by asking for mercy.  It surely did not end well for Jon Snow.  He got what he gave when his own brothers stabbed him to death.

[Giant Ice Spider]

19 hours ago, LionoftheWest said:

And from a meta perspective Balon's death would only hasten the return of Euron and I think that we all can see the value of keeping Euron far away. If the Reader is made the new Lord Paramount of the Iron Islands, how much respect will he be able to commandeer once Euron arrives to challenge him? My guess is that it won't be very much. The same naturally goes with Theon as well so the big (meta) question is, who could they put on the throne who would both be able to hold the Ironborn away from the pull of Euron and also not go Balon-like stupid? Asha could work, but she would have been a small child at the time and not yet have recieved the grooming for leadership she got from Balon after the Greyjoy Rebellion.

No. Euron hadn't been exiled just yet. I think it was like, another five or six years until he sleep with Victarion's salt wife & gets kicked out. It would have hastened Euron's rise, but I don't Euron would have acted until the point where he does in the books: when Westeros is ripe for the taking.

[Varysblackfyre321]

16 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

 

1) Balon is defeated and has bent the knee physically infront of his bannerman and the other nobility of Westeros, id Balon rebelled again he would look like an oathbreaker AND weak so swaying the other IB lords to his cause would be hard. 

 

I don't think oathbreaker would be a fear-Balon doesn't see Robert legitimate in the first place, so what's the harm in breaking promises to it?  And you've lords who served and swore to Aerys who've aided Robert in his rebellion; no one calls them oathbreaker.  

16 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

 

 2) Theon is a ward of the Ned and will be fine tuned to be pro Robert like Ned is. 

But he'll have an extremely difficult time actually assimilating back into the Ironborn's society. He's been gone from it the majority of his life; and left at 7.

16 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

4) It would take YEARS for the IB to recover from the complete total beat down Robert just laid them, IB have almost no wood to replace there all powerful Iron Fleet. 

 

Yes.

 

11 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

He surrendered and gave hostages.  When a former enemy bends the knee you help him up.  Otherwise, future enemies will never surrender and will choose to continue fighting, knowing they will never be forgiven.  Bending the knee doesn't have to mean they grew to love one another.  It's not hugs and kisses.  It's just a way to help smooth things and mend the rift that existed.  Just check out the thread called "the execution of Janos Slynt was unjust" and read how Jon killed a man who first resisted and later did the equivalent of bending the knees by asking for mercy.  It surely did not end well for Jon Snow.  He got what he gave when his own brothers stabbed him to death.

He surrendered and gave hostages, after literally having his keep stormed, and being subdued. Tywin's advice, only goes for any surrendering before the type of scenario Balon was in-he did not show any mercy after defeating the Tarbecks. I posted on that thread. Jon was impractical(his reasoning for why execution can only be the answer  is weak to say the least) with his decision to execute Slynt; he could not however back out after decreeing what the man's punishment would be. 

[Angel Eyes]

2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I don't think oathbreaker would be a fear-Balon doesn't see Robert legitimate in the first place, so what's the harm in breaking promises to it?  And you've lords who served and swore to Aerys who've aided Robert in his rebellion; no one calls them oathbreaker.  

But he'll have an extremely difficult time actually assimilating back into the Ironborn's society. He's been gone from it the majority of his life; and left at 7.

Yes.

 

He surrendered and gave hostages, after literally having his keep stormed, and being subdued. Tywin's advice, only goes for any surrendering before the type of scenario Balon was in-he did not show any mercy after defeating the Tarbecks. I posted on that thread. Jon was impractical(his reasoning for why execution can only be the answer  is weak to say the least) with his decision to execute Slynt; he could not however back out after decreeing what the man's punishment would be. 

I'm surprised that Balon wouldn't see Robert as legitimate. Paying the Iron Price is seizing something from those one has defeated rather than paying or trading for it. Isn't that what Robert did?

[Lion of the West]

On 7/24/2018 at 3:32 PM, Giant Ice Spider said:

No. Euron hadn't been exiled just yet. I think it was like, another five or six years until he sleep with Victarion's salt wife & gets kicked out. It would have hastened Euron's rise, but I don't Euron would have acted until the point where he does in the books: when Westeros is ripe for the taking.

I suppose you may be right. I'm actually sure you're wrong though and that Euron was exiled during the Greyjoy Rebellion, hence why Victarion leads the Iron Fleet into Stannis' ambush while the clever Euron planned the strike at Lannisport at the start. As well as the mentioning struck in my head that Euron is the only kraken who has never known defeat.

But I will freely admit that I can't find the quotes to back this up and so that's it.

22 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I'm surprised that Balon wouldn't see Robert as legitimate. Paying the Iron Price is seizing something from those one has defeated rather than paying or trading for it. Isn't that what Robert did?

Well, certain people like to deal it out to others but when others deals it to them, they cry about things not being fair. The Ironmen are presumably in this category of people.

[The Grey Wolf]

2 hours ago, LionoftheWest said:

Well, certain people like to deal it out to others but when others deals it to them, they cry about things not being fair. The Ironmen are presumably in this category of people.

Understatement.

[The Sunland Lord]

Yes. It's only the story that needed him. Otherwise there was really no reason to spare him. He bent the knee, but when? After the Crown representatives entered his living room? Rebels were dying for much less.

[Nittanian]

5 hours ago, LionoftheWest said:

I suppose you may be right. I'm actually sure you're wrong though and that Euron was exiled during the Greyjoy Rebellion, hence why Victarion leads the Iron Fleet into Stannis' ambush while the clever Euron planned the strike at Lannisport at the start. As well as the mentioning struck in my head that Euron is the only kraken who has never known defeat.

It's from AFFC The Iron Captain.

Quote

A dozen newcomers had entered the feast tent. Victarion saw Pinchface Jon Myre, Torwold Browntooth, Left-Hand Lucas Codd. Germund Botley crossed his arms against the gilded breastplate he had taken off a Lannister captain during Balon's first rebellion. Orkwood of Orkmont stood beside him. Behind them were Stonehand, Quellon Humble, and the Red Oarsman with his fiery hair in braids. Ralf the Shepherd too, and Ralf of Lordsport, and Qarl the Thrall.

And the Crow's Eye, Euron Greyjoy.

He looks unchanged, Victarion thought. He looks the same as he did the day he laughed at me and left. Euron was the most comely of Lord Quellon's sons, and three years of exile had not changed that. His hair was still black as a midnight sea, with never a whitecap to be seen, and his face was still smooth and pale beneath his neat dark beard. A black leather patch covered Euron's left eye, but his right was blue as a summer sky.

 

[Ckram]

And ACOK, Theon II

Quote

Theon shifted his seat. "My uncle Euron has not been seen in the islands for close on two years. He may be dead." If so, it might be for the best. Lord Balon's eldest brother had never given up the Old Way, even for a day. His Silence, with its black sails and dark red hull, was infamous in every port from Ibben to Asshai, it was said.

 

[Lion of the West]

@Nittanian and @Ckram

I know because I looked at those very quotes myself.