UK Politics: This Country is Going to the Moggs

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Well, if I were May, I'd do what no PM ever could, sign up to the backstop, announce me stepping down as party chair, and wish my successor good luck sorting out the future relationships.

As signing up to the backstop just avoids crashing out, and still leaves the future relations more or less open for the next goverment, as it allows both SM membership, or a CETA+ arrangement, at the cost of NI, but that would be for PM Johnson or Corbyn to sort out. And then I'd pull a Cameron, and go and whistle.

 

But then again, I am not the British PM.

[Werthead]

The government has spent £40K of taxpayer's money trying to cover up how infrequently a previous northern powerhouse minister actually visited the north.

It's a good thing the public serves are doing to well, otherwise that money could have been better spent somewhere else.

[ants]

On 9/27/2018 at 12:23 AM, Spockydog said:

If we leave the EU on the 29th of March, I will eat my keyboard.

Of course you will. It’s not like there will be any food to eat .....

[A Horse Named Stranger]

So I read that BoJo has rumoredly put forward his Brexit ideas in the Telegraph. Did it have substance or was it just another "it's gonna be glorious once we have left, just look there's a unicorn over there..." kinda rambling?

[argonak]

12 hours ago, ants said:

Of course you will. It’s not like there will be any food to eat .....

As someone watching over the pond, are UK people stockpiling canned goods and medicine?  Is there any sort of Y2K vibe to all this?  Modern distribution chains are so complicated any sort of disturbance can seriously screw it all up.

Do you guys have the wierd "prepper" culture america does, where people build bunkers and stockpile it with food and supplies for the apocalypse?

[Which Tyler]

41 minutes ago, argonak said:

As someone watching over the pond, are UK people stockpiling canned goods and medicine?  Is there any sort of Y2K vibe to all this?  Modern distribution chains are so complicated any sort of disturbance can seriously screw it all up.

Do you guys have the wierd "prepper" culture america does, where people build bunkers and stockpile it with food and supplies for the apocalypse?

Nah, we just panic buy the moment just after anything has actually happened.

Water companies shuts the water off overnight, and suddenly everyone will go and buy 30 litres of water for each member of the household.

Being beforehand that the water's going to be off, and please fill up bottles? and nadda, not a single thing will be done (until we turn on the taps in the morning adn find there isnt' any water there)

[Pebble thats Stubby]

39 minutes ago, argonak said:

As someone watching over the pond, are UK people stockpiling canned goods and medicine?  Is there any sort of Y2K vibe to all this?  Modern distribution chains are so complicated any sort of disturbance can seriously screw it all up.

Do you guys have the wierd "prepper" culture america does, where people build bunkers and stockpile it with food and supplies for the apocalypse?

from my experience no-one really took the Y2K bug seriously.  yeah there might be some issues but no-one believed planes would fall out of the sky. the hype was considered more of a joke.  

 

Unlike brexit, a lot of people are worried and really don't know what do to do about it.  Its a slow build of an impending sense of doom. and yet we will also keep calm and carry on.  I know a lot of people are buying extra tinned and dried food every shop, but no-one as far as I know has really embraced brexit prepping to last more than a couple of weeks.  

 

I am one of the people storing a little extra food.  Not enough for a complete breakdown, but a bit to help ease things in the initial aftermath.

we also have people who laugh and call you snowflake sissys cos its all gonna be great and a land of plenty after Brexit.  No problems.  so much so that in 20 years I'll be too embarrassed to admit i was worried. (according to them)

 

 

Yes we do have some real Preppers for the end of the world like you do - (but no guns)  nothing to the extent in the US. they are rare and I think mostly imported.

[BigFatCoward]

Anyone want to predict the affect of brexit on mortgage rates? Mine is up soon and I want to make sure I don't screw up. 

[Which Tyler]

Well pay more, same for petrol and household utilities.

Evening the base cost doesnt go up, what the consumer pays will... It always does

[williamjm]

Apparently Boris have been explaining his Grand Plan for saving Brexit. It appears the main points are that he becomes PM and that he wants to build a bridge between Britain and Ireland. He doesn't seem to have explained how either of those things are going to help anything.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 hour ago, williamjm said:

Apparently Boris have been explaining his Grand Plan for saving Brexit. It appears the main points are that he becomes PM and that he wants to build a bridge between Britain and Ireland. He doesn't seem to have explained how either of those things are going to help anything.

I guess, he meant it as a figure of speech. As PM he would bridge the divide between Ireland and the UK with a bridge. It doesn't have to make sense, we'Re talking about BoZo here. Reality and real solutions are boring.

[chuck norris 42]

I don't know why I care about this but does any language use suffixes or prefixes  to allow you to string a lot of words together with unambiguous meaning. 

For example "lesbian vampire killers" is ambiguous, it could refer to someone who kills lesbian vampires or a lesbian that kills vampires 

But perhaps a language uses suffixes to clarify things for example 
"Lesbian vampire[suffix] killers[suffix] " would  refer to lesbians who kill vampires. 
and
"Lesbian[suffix] vampire[suffix] killers[suffix]" would  to refer to people who kill lesbian vampires 

 

[Werthead]

7 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

I guess, he meant it as a figure of speech. As PM he would bridge the divide between Ireland and the UK with a bridge. It doesn't have to make sense, we'Re talking about BoZo here. Reality and real solutions are boring.

No, he means literally building an actual bridge, presumably from Northern Ireland to Scotland (as no other route is feasible). The DUP are in full support, although they don't address the problem of what happens when Scotland votes for independence and gets a nice shiny bridge paid for by the UK taxpayer.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

14 minutes ago, Werthead said:

No, he means literally building an actual bridge, presumably from Northern Ireland to Scotland (as no other route is feasible). The DUP are in full support, although they don't address the problem of what happens when Scotland votes for independence and gets a nice shiny bridge paid for by the UK taxpayer.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just invest in the infrastructure to increase the ferry traffic between Scotland and the UK?

I know at the moment most goods travel from Holyhead (Wales) to Dublin. But I'd think investing in the harbors in Glasgow and Belfast looks like a somewhat more sensible approach. But then again, suggesting to build stuff is just his thing. I mean, didn't he propose a bridge over the channel a while ago? 

[mankytoes]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

No, he means literally building an actual bridge, presumably from Northern Ireland to Scotland (as no other route is feasible). The DUP are in full support, although they don't address the problem of what happens when Scotland votes for independence and gets a nice shiny bridge paid for by the UK taxpayer.

But Scottish taxpayers are UK taxpayers, so they would contribute. I feel like we have to act with good faith here, Scottish voters clearly expressed they wanted to be a part of the UK. If they voted independent they'd be responsible for half the upkeep, and we'd have a great link with an important trading partner.  

Lets be clear, this isn't an original Boris idea, he's just using it as a publicity gimmick. But I am a fan of big infrastructure projects, if this is seen as promising from an engineering point of view I wouldn't be opposed. 

If we're doing big projects, I really think the HS3 thing should be next- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Powerhouse_Rail

[Maltaran]

57 minutes ago, mankytoes said:

But Scottish taxpayers are UK taxpayers, so they would contribute. I feel like we have to act with good faith here, Scottish voters clearly expressed they wanted to be a part of the UK. If they voted independent they'd be responsible for half the upkeep, and we'd have a great link with an important trading partner. 

I think the point is that UK taxpayers would pay for this and then not get the benefit after Scotland secedes.

[williamjm]

3 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just invest in the infrastructure to increase the ferry traffic between Scotland and the UK?

I know at the moment most goods travel from Holyhead (Wales) to Dublin. But I'd think investing in the harbors in Glasgow and Belfast looks like a somewhat more sensible approach.

I think improving the existing infrastructure would be something that could benefit any bridge as well, since the closest (*) point at Portpatrick is near the existing ferry port at Stranraer, so upgrading the road/rail connections to Glasgow and England would benefit both bridge and ferry. It would probably make sense to start off with that project since it would bring benefits more quickly and would make a future bridge more viable, but it's perhaps not headline-grabbing enough for Boris to be interested in.

(*) technically, the Mull of Kintyre is closer to Northern Ireland, but it's so awkward to get to that it would be faster to take a ferry anyway.

3 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

But then again, suggesting to build stuff is just his thing. I mean, didn't he propose a bridge over the channel a while ago? 

He did. There was also the Garden Bridge in London that he spent a lot of money on when Mayor and ended up never being built. Then there is his 'Boris Island' idea to build an island airport in the Thames rather than expanding Heathrow. I wonder if we'll see that idea revived if he becomes PM?

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Well, at least bridges are supposed to connect things, so in that respect London Trump is somewhat of an improvement (well, that and actually possessing words).

Anyway, for the time being I think considering to use Holyhead for the time being for Ferry Operations, and to just switch the destination from Dublin to Belfast looks maybe even more sensible. Not sure if that's more profitable than reloacting operations up north, but at least there you don't need build up the infrastructure. But it's very likely smarter than talking about an expensive bridge project, which won't be ready for another decade (probably more), anyway.

[mankytoes]

3 hours ago, Maltaran said:

I think the point is that UK taxpayers would pay for this and then not get the benefit after Scotland secedes.

Well, we’d still have the benefit of a link to a foreign country, like the channel tunnel. By this logic, we shouldn’t put any investment in Scottish infrastructure. Which, funny enough, would probably cause independence.

[Werthead]

Weird interview between Marr and May. Marr said if Britain leaves without a deal that will automatically mean some kind of border check on the Northern Ireland-Republic border. She seemed to disagree (although she tried to vague it out).

Cue the normal discussions about how the UK can simply choose not to impose a border and leave it to the RoI and EU to enforce a border, so they get the blame. The problem with that is that under WTO rules, Britain can't pick and choose. If it chooses not enforce the border with Ireland, it can't enforce the border with France or the sea border either, so it's open season for all goods to come into the country from everywhere, the US, France or whatever. Some have been arguing that WTO rules allow for a security exemption, which is correct, but the security exemption would only apply to the NI-RoI border, not to the whole border, i.e. it would move the border to the next practical location, the Irish Sea. And we end up where we were in the discussions with the EU anyway.

This process is starting to feel like Groundhog Day.