Football: 3rd Season Meltdown

[Iskaral Pust]

Oh well.  I can’t pretend to be sad if Utd self-sabotage and get knocked off their perch.  Liverpool did the same with their reluctance to embrace the business aspect of football and their reluctance to have an outsider for a manager, leading to a decade under Souness and Evans from which we never recovered.  One was so desperate to make his mark that he hacked up a title winning team and replaced them with dross.  The other was so desperate to be liked that he was too soft with a bunch of nearly men. 

[Consigliere]

26 minutes ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

WIll be interesting to see how he works with Kante in the midfield as they play a similar role. 

Kante and Jorginho are very different types of players though - the former is primarily a ball winner breaking up play with tackles and interceptions while the latter is your classic regista who isn't so strong defensively. They should, in theory, complement each other very well.

 

26 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Oh well.  I can’t pretend to be sad if Utd self-sabotage and get knocked off their perch.  Liverpool did the same with their reluctance to embrace the business aspect of football and their reluctance to have an outsider for a manager, leading to a decade under Souness and Evans from which we never recovered.  One was so desperate to make his mark that he hacked up a title winning team and replaced them with dross.  The other was so desperate to be liked that he was too soft with a bunch of nearly men. 

While I'd like to see us appoint a Sporting Director, I don't think that not having one is the end of the world or anything. Mourinho is the problem here. United were desperate at the time and Mourinho was available. The board took the easy route with a proven winner while surely knowing what we all knew i.e. that his toxic personality would rear its ugly head sooner rather than later.

[Iskaral Pust]

Alternate interest club: Wolves

Although I have a soft spot for Everton (when not clogging Liverpool players) and Newcastle, they’re already well represented around here. 

So Wolves look like an interesting story to track.  This historic club’s last trip to the PL was a shitshow under Mick McCarthy but now they return as Championship winners (99 points) under new Chinese owners that seem to have converted the club into a development/feeder outlet for Portuguese football.  New manager Nuno Santos, former Porto coach, changed the football style pretty radically last season and Reuben Neves was their best player.  Now this summer they’ve added Moutinho and Rui Patricio as well as Jimenez (WC striker for Mexico).  It’s perhaps a bit similar to Watford’s reinvention but less scattered.

Former Liverpool youngster Conor Coady has done well for them and last season was converted from MF to ball-playing CB wearing the captain’s armband.  

There are some fears that the club has been taken over by Iberian football agents but fans are enjoying the ride so far.  Atletico Madrid just signed a promising CB, Castro, from Celta Vigo and promptly loaned him to Wolves.  It seems like they’ll have the inside track on more Iberian-based talent.

[l2 0 5 5]

48 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Kante and Jorginho are very different types of players though - the former is primarily a ball winner breaking up play with tackles and interceptions while the latter is your classic regista who isn't so strong defensively. They should, in theory, complement each other very well.

Good point. I'm hopeful. The striker position has been worrisome since Morata did not replace Costa well at all. Like I said before, I want to see what our other younger options can do if Morata cannot prove to be worth the money and move to Chelsea. I want to see what Tammy and Michy can do if that'e the case. Hoping that we do not go through with the Higuain deal as he's of the same mold as Giroud. We have younger options that need a chance. 

[Jeor]

6 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I’m not saying that Mourinho will suddenly change.  But since you are yoked to a short term manager right now, then treat him like a short term manager and put in place the infrastructure he dislikes that will benefit the club after he leaves.  What’s he going to do, complain even more in the press conferences?  Quit and save you the huge severance package for eventually firing him?

Given executive contracts these days generally, I wouldn't be surprised if Mourinho has some clause in his contract that prevents someone like a Director of Football being appointed above him, or some clause that guarantees him control over transfer policy (e.g. if he's the only one who can officially submit names or he has a veto over transfers then that effectively neuters any DoF appointment).

Having read Ferguson's latest autobiography, he said David Gill was the best CEO he ever worked with - top-class financial skills, an excellent organisational manager, honest and knew his football. Ferguson consulted with Gill on more than just transfers, a lot of disciplinary and first-team/backroom staff issues he would get Gill's advice. They were a good partnership so there was never a need for a DoF, but both retired at the same time.

I believe Gill was the finance director before he became CEO, so it's not surprising that United thought that Woodward could make the same transition. He probably could have if he had Ferguson to ease him in. But I can't imagine Mourinho having a working relationship with anyone, let alone a Ferguson/Gill partnership.

I'm somewhat relieved that Arsenal instituted the Mislintat and Sanhelli structure, and although I don't quite get the division of their responsibilities, it's good that there is some structure there besides the manager.

[BigFatCoward]

9 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Alternate interest club: Wolves

Although I have a soft spot for Everton (when not clogging Liverpool players) and Newcastle, they’re already well represented around here. 

 

I've always had a little soft spot for wolves since I was seeing a girl from there when I was 15. They had the most bizarre stadium, the grass area was a square, with the pitch running up the middle. About 90% of the stadium capacity was in one huge terrace which ran the full width of the area behind one goal. 

I went off them when that prick McCarthy was in charge though.

[Iskaral Pust]

12 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I've always had a little soft spot for wolves since I was seeing a girl from there when I was 15. They had the most bizarre stadium, the grass area of the was a square with the pitch running up the middle. About 90% of the stadium capacity was in one huge terrace which ran the full width of the area behind one goal. 

I went off them when that prick McCarthy was in charge though.

Imagine if he managed your national team and half-arsed the 2002 WC, when we had a decent chance to go deep (lost to Spain only on penalties after missing a penalty in regulation time).  Preparation, tactics, man management ... he was useless at all of them.

Molineaux was significantly redeveloped in the very early 1990s just as the PL was launched.  You’ve dated yourself there a bit.

[ljkeane]

I don't watch the Championship consistently enough to judge but there were quite a few people last season saying Wolves would have been a comfortably mid table side if they'd been in the Premier League. It'll be interesting to see how they do this year.

Speaking of the Championship it starts on Friday and it looks like it might have a lot of interesting subplots. Leeds, who probably should be a Premier League team, have Marcelo Bielsa managing them. Frank Lampard's managing Derby, who knows how good he'll be at actually managing but he seems to have leveraged his connections quite well to get some good players loaned in; Mason Mount's one of the biggest prospects in the Chelsea youth system and a lot Liverpool fans thought we should keep Harry Wilson this year. How Darren Moore does with a full season at the job should be worth watching too.

[Jordan La Cabra]

I’m interested to see how my second English team, Nottingham Forest, get on this season. 

They have made some really impressive signings, with the help of Uncle Jorge, and head into the season as one of the favourites for promotion. Obviously it’s not just as simple as adding good players, but they will have been inspired by what Wolves did last season.

Along with appointing Bielsa, Leeds have made a few decent loan signings in Jamal Blackman and Lewis Baker, both from Chelsea. Baker didn’t excel in the Championship last year, but he had a really strong spell at Vitesse, so the talent is clearly there. I am surprised Middlesbrough are letting Bamford go to Leeds, even though they could be getting £10m for him. He’s proven that he is a great player at Championship level. 

 

 

[Raja]

I think having a second team is kinda hard, because you don't have an emotional attachment to them. Tbh, I almost watch every match I can, unless it's at the same time that Arsenal are playing. Maybe picking a championship team might be easier, I should watch more of that this season. I can't just like pick a team and stick with them, I feel like I probably wouldn't get attached to them at all. 

Can't wait for the football to be honest ( at least we're not playing first so the weekend won't be ruined straight away!)

[Consigliere]

Reliable reports saying that a swap deal between AC Milan and Juve for Caldara and Bonucci is close to being completed. Milan are also close to completing the signing of Higuain on loan (reported €18m loan fee + €36m option to buy). 

[Iskaral Pust]

Considering there are only ten days remaining in the transfer window for PL clubs, I'm kind of surprised there isn't more activity today.  Liverpool and Arsenal were early movers but Chelsea, United, City and Spurs have all had relatively few additions (or none at all for Spurs). 

Everton have been slow too, just Richarlison so far, but are supposedly on the cusp of adding Digne.  I expected more there from a deep pockets new owner with a new manager to support and some gaps to fill.  Burnley haven't added anyone yet.  Newcastle have only added Schar and Ki (but made Dubravka permanent and renewed Kenedy's loan).  Not much pressure on the top 6 from the teams that finished just below them.

Wolves, West Ham and Fulham have all added some interesting/unusual names from abroad, showing some ambition and urgency.  Leicester, Watford and Southampton look kind of neutral as arrivals offset departures.

Bournemouth and Palace have added very little, while Brighton and Huddersfield have added a lot of young/unknown players from some far-flung scouting.

[Mark Antony]

1 hour ago, Consigliere said:

Reliable reports saying that a swap deal between AC Milan and Juve for Caldara and Bonucci is close to being completed. Milan are also close to completing the signing of Higuain on loan (reported €18m loan fee + €36m option to buy). 

haven’t watched much caldara but he’s very highly rated and pretty young. Him and Romagnoli could be a solid partnership for a decade. Not sure why Juve want to do that deal

[lmanion]

So who did wolves manage to grab from sporting, I know of Patricio but did they also grab Moutinho? If so they should be able to give a lot of teams a scare.

[Iskaral Pust]

30 minutes ago, lmanion said:

So who did wolves manage to grab from sporting, I know of Patricio but did they also grab Moutinho? If so they should be able to give a lot of teams a scare.

Yeah, they have Moutinho too

[Consigliere]

12 hours ago, Mark Antony said:

haven’t watched much caldara but he’s very highly rated and pretty young. Him and Romagnoli could be a solid partnership for a decade. Not sure why Juve want to do that deal

I think signing Ronaldo has led to this. It's short term but Juve want to win the CL in the next couple of seasons before Ronaldo starts to decline. Currently Bonucci is much better than Caldara (who was mostly a bench player last season) especially when it comes to building play from the back which means that Pjanic doesn't have to drop so deep to start attacks. What is surprising though are reports saying that Juve didn't insert a buyback clause. 

 

I guess this impacts Chelsea as well. IIRC, they were being linked to Higuain and Rugani. Very unlikely that Juve agree to sell Rugani now.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

19 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

 What is surprising though are reports saying that Juve didn't insert a buyback clause. 

Probably not that surprising. As you said, Juve are somewhat desperate to win the CL within the next few seasons, so they desperately wanted Bonucci back, which means Milan probably could've rejected the buy back clause. That's at least my thinking. I mean like you said, short term Caldera is a downgrade for Milan, so that deal only makes sense for them if he stays long term, and buy back clause doesn't really make sense in that case from Milan's perspective.

Meanwhile it looks like Vidal is also on his way to the city of Milan, but he is bound for Inter. 

[Mark Antony]

2 hours ago, Consigliere said:

I guess this impacts Chelsea as well. IIRC, they were being linked to Higuain and Rugani. Very unlikely that Juve agree to sell Rugani now.

I know Rugani played under Sarri at Empoli and that was the basis in the interest from Chelsea but they don’t need a CB imo. Christensen had his shaky moments in the 2nd half of last season but I rate him pretty highly and think him and Rudiger would be a good partnership in a back four. If David Luiz stays healthy he can slot in fine as well. The fullback situation looks much worse than the CB one at Chelsea. Will be interesting to see if Azpi moves back to one of the flanks. Too good not to start but maybe not suited to playing CB in a back four so I imagine he will.

Sticking with Morata would be much riskier for Chelsea than not buying a CB imo. Maybe Morata will turn it around and find some form under an attack minded manager but if he doesnt it could derail Chelseas chances at getting back into CL. Wonder if Batshuayi will get more minutes under Sarri than he did Conte. 

2 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Meanwhile it looks like Vidal is also on his way to the city of Milan, but he is bound for Inter. 

Vidal and Nainggolan in the same midfield  

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Well, I guess I can drop in some more rumours.

Max Meyer is rumoredly in talks with Crystal Palace, not sure how he fits in with the more phyiscal EPL play.

And as the bigger rumour. Chelsea is in talks with Dortmund about Pulisic. The transfer fee would supposedly be around 73m €. Which is pretty much in line with what I said on the last page, that Dortmund thinks 70m+ is the right price for him.

 

[Iskaral Pust]

Chelsea seem like the last team who need another CB, especially if they do commit to a back four.  As @Mark Antony pointed out, they'll have a bigger problem with getting the right balance in FBs/WBs.  Azpi and Moses may split time depending on opposition.  When Liverpool fixed their FB positioning problem last year (around November/December), Gomez became noticeably more defensive than Moreno so that it almost looked like a back three when attacking.  It worked well enough so I would not discount Azpi as a RB in the new system, but a DM like Kante could probably provide a lot of cover for Moses and Alonso.