Euron III Greyjoy Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I posted this a while ago, but it was on a page no one really visits, so I thought I'd post it here. Whilst I don't think this will occur in any of the books, I was wondering if it would be possible for a Skinchanger to take over the body of a baby for his or her second life. We find out through the Varamyr prologue chapter that it's very difficult to take control of another human, as they have the ability to resist. We do know however that it's possible because Bran does this to Hodor constantly when he wants to walk around. This confirms that the more simple minded the person, the easier it is. So I feel like a baby would be easy to skinchange into. And yes, I know that Bran is a very powerful skinchanger, but so is Jon, and I feel like a baby would be easier to skinchange into then Hodor. Lets set up a hypothetical situation here. When Jon Snow gets stabbed at Castle Black, and lets say for arguments sake that he definitely died, people are screaming and Val comes out to see whats going on, with Gilly's baby in hand. Could he then skinchange into Gilly's baby, and live out the rest of his life with a new body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 Infant Monster Snowgaryen will defeat the white walkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Kings Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 Babies mostly sleep and cry and sh!t their pants. Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 He would be impaled on stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seams Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 I think Maester Aemon may have already skinchanged into Mance's baby, Aemon Steelsong, aboard the Cinnamon Wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoth the raven, Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 11 hours ago, EloImFizzy said: I posted this a while ago, but it was on a page no one really visits, so I thought I'd post it here. Whilst I don't think this will occur in any of the books, I was wondering if it would be possible for a Skinchanger to take over the body of a baby for his or her second life. We find out through the Varamyr prologue chapter that it's very difficult to take control of another human, as they have the ability to resist. We do know however that it's possible because Bran does this to Hodor constantly when he wants to walk around. This confirms that the more simple minded the person, the easier it is. So I feel like a baby would be easy to skinchange into. And yes, I know that Bran is a very powerful skinchanger, but so is Jon, and I feel like a baby would be easier to skinchange into then Hodor. Lets set up a hypothetical situation here. When Jon Snow gets stabbed at Castle Black, and lets say for arguments sake that he definitely died, people are screaming and Val comes out to see whats going on, with Gilly's baby in hand. Could he then skinchange into Gilly's baby, and live out the rest of his life with a new body? Jon knows nothing. So for him to pull off something like that without the benefit of lots of practice. I hope Jon just dies and the author leaves it that way. It makes death something to be taken seriously so people don't needlessly waste their lives, or the lives of others. I'm also not a fan Jon's pov chapters. Warging and its rules were introduced for a very good purpose. The author is fair about setting up his plot. If Jon is to have a second life it is through Ghost. There is no going back to a human body after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted July 26, 2018 Author Share Posted July 26, 2018 3 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said: Jon knows nothing. So for him to pull off something like that without the benefit of lots of practice. I hope Jon just dies and the author leaves it that way. It makes death something to be taken seriously so people don't needlessly waste their lives, or the lives of others. I'm also not a fan Jon's pov chapters. Warging and its rules were introduced for a very good purpose. The author is fair about setting up his plot. If Jon is to have a second life it is through Ghost. There is no going back to a human body after that. Wow, whenever I see your comments they seem to be talking about your dislike of Jon Snow. xD You know there is a reason I put the word 'hypothetical' in there, I even said myself I don't think this will occur in any of the books. I just used Jon as an example because he's a powerful skinchanger, he's in close proximity to a baby, and he just so happens to be dying at the moment. You can use any example you see fit, my main question here is 'Can a skinchanger take over the body of a baby for his or her second life?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 I get the feeling a baby would be much harder to anchor and control than even Hodor is. Babies, for quite awhile anyway, are eating, crapping, crying, and sleeping blobs. I'd think it might be harder to anchor into that situation than an animal or even Hodor. I think it'd be easier with a child with some type of awareness to even battle for possession, but I suspect that Varamyr would be the only one cruel and greedy enough to attempt such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigella Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 18 hours ago, EloImFizzy said: Lets set up a hypothetical situation here. When Jon Snow gets stabbed at Castle Black, and lets say for arguments sake that he definitely died, people are screaming and Val comes out to see whats going on, with Gilly's baby in hand. Could he then skinchange into Gilly's baby, and live out the rest of his life with a new body? I don't think so, a "dying stretching for" should be aimed at someone familiar (like Ghost) rather than the baby Jon doesn't really has any bond with. Imo he'd have to aim for the babe while dying and my take is that Jon isn't callous enough to attempt it even if it was technically possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cruise Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 HODOR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 Probably, and it'll probably have something to do with what the Others do with Craster's boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 12 hours ago, Seams said: I think Maester Aemon may have already skinchanged into Mance's baby, Aemon Steelsong, aboard the Cinnamon Wind. what leads you to believe this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annalee Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 A baby theoretically has less will power to resist. It's still a poor choice because it's helpless. But it would make for good drama if baby Jon is offered to the Others as a sacrifice. Ice to ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three-Fingered Pete Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 He could try for the infant, but if there is any divine justice he should be repelled and end up in Dolorous Edd. After all, it was he who nominated Jon in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Best as I can tell, Bran is the only one who can actually skinchange a human. Jon seems to be only subconsciously aware of his warg bond with Ghost. I don't recall his ever actually trying to warg Ghost. In fairness, to skinchange a human is an abomination in the eyes of Hagon at the very least. Surely somewhere in time some rat dirt bag has done this. We get the warning in Varamyr's memory then we get to see Bran commit this transgression repeatedly. All I can surmise is either it's not a bad thing and Hagon was wrong or Bran is the special snowflake, not Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ckram Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Theoretically, it would be possible. However, we must bear in mind that this type of maneuver has consequences. Not only is there constant resistance from the owner of the skin, as there is a tendency for the skinchanger to slowly deplete by transfering himself into a body in which he wasn't born. As Varamyr reports, even among animals there are those that are difficult to control (cats), for they would be "vain". However, as this BBC article shows, Freud claimed that the human baby also has a narcissistic tendency, a strong self-esteem, to the point of seeing his caretakers as servants (hence the expression "His Majesty the Baby"). According to the same BBC article, this inclination stems from an evolutionary need not found in dogs, cats, dolphins or apes. Therefore, it is possible that humans are the most challenging target for a skinchanger even as a baby. Apparently, this exaggerated self-esteem disappears as the child grows, because the mechanism is no longer necessary. Hence, according to the assumption I have made above leads me to believe, it would then become an easier target for the skinchanger. However, Varamyr reports that, over time, the skinchanger blends with the target to the point that his memory gets completely lost. So the skinchanger may not be there anymore when the kid's nervous system and psyche is ready to go. Even though it refers to skinchangers who have lost their way trying a second life on animals (whose "hardware" supposedly does not meet the requirements to run the human mind "software"), I find it hard to believe that the skinchanger that took another human would live forever a body in which he was not born. To paraphrase Martin, humans "vary gratly". Full compatibility doesn't seem likely. But yeah, let's hope for a real expert to come along and explain if these speculations are of any value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaneSnow Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 On 7/27/2018 at 1:46 AM, Ckram said: As Varamyr reports, even among animals there are those that are difficult to control (cats), for they would be "vain". However, as this BBC article shows, Freud claimed that the human baby also has a narcissistic tendency, a strong self-esteem, to the point of seeing his caretakers as servants (hence the expression "His Majesty the Baby"). According to the same BBC article, this inclination stems from an evolutionary need not found in dogs, cats, dolphins or apes. Therefore, it is possible that humans are the most challenging target for a skinchanger even as a baby. . Of course Freud had some crazy shit theories, like that one about how everyone's like subconsciously attracted to their mum or something weird. Anyway like it was said earlier Jon is barely aware of his abilities and doesn't seem to know how to consciously control them. Although perhaps he could do it involuntarily in a moment of panic. If Jon does someone survive it won't be by traditional means. He was stabbed in the abdomen and like the Hound back when Arya stabbed that one boy that a prick in the bowels is a slow and ugly death. He'd become septic fast and no way do they have the technology to do anything about that in Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Nothing prevents him. Craster has Stark blood. That increases compatibility with Gillie's baby. The Others might think he's Craster II and spare him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunland Lord Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Well it's theoretically possible until we see what happens. Who knows, writer's often mentioning of teats maybe is a foreshadowing. Jon Snow warging into a teat milk suckling babe and staying there for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.