Brienne of Tarth lack of bethrothal or husband very ODD

[Stormking902]

Brienne is the sole heir to the island of Tarth and its wealth, house Tarth is on equal ground with house Swann and Dondarrion of the Stormlands in terms of power but no man wants to be her husband because she's ugly? Thats nonsense and most men especially men with great ambition would jump at the chance to marry Brienne and take her fathers lands and incomes. If your a real piece of shit get a couple a kids off her and have her killed and remarry, it sounds horrible and it is but there are some real scum who would love this idea. 

 

 

[Tucu]

She was bethroded 3 times: one died, another one rejected her (Connington) and she humiliated the third one in combat.

[Euron III Greyjoy]

32 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

Brienne is the sole heir to the island of Tarth and its wealth, house Tarth is on equal ground with house Swann and Dondarrion of the Stormlands in terms of power but no man wants to be her husband because she's ugly? Thats nonsense and most men especially men with great ambition would jump at the chance to marry Brienne and take her fathers lands and incomes. If your a real piece of shit get a couple a kids off her and have her killed and remarry, it sounds horrible and it is but there are some real scum who would love this idea. 

It's how Tucu says. I'm guessing most men who would be willing to marry her just didn't bother after realising she either wouldn't accept them, or she wouldn't become a stereotypical lady. There is also Hyle Hunt who keeps on asking for her hand in marriage throughout AFfC. 

[kissdbyfire]

What may be considered "odd" for Westerosi standards is that Lord Selwyn decided to not force the issue and to let her be herself. That's why he is a very good father in my book. Imagine if Tarly or Tywin or any number of other lords would do the same. 

[Lord Varys]

Tarth is a poor island at the end of the world. It is not even remotely in the same league as the greater houses.

Brienne is Selwyn's only child, but not necessarily his only heir. There might be other Tarths out there we don't know about, and we don't even know whether Selwyn wants his daughter to succeed. He could have made preparations to disinherit her (with a woman as 'unnatural' as Brienne this shouldn't be very hard).

But Brienne could, of course, also succeed her father and then rule childless until her own death after which Tarth goes to some cousin or the Iron Throne hands the island to some other house if no heirs can be found.

It happened rather often with the houses who held Harrenhal.

[Bernie Mac]

5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

What may be considered "odd" for Westerosi standards is that Lord Selwyn decided to not force the issue and to let her be herself. That's why he is a very good father in my book. Imagine if Tarly or Tywin or any number of other lords would do the same. 

She was 18 at the start of the series and before that had been sent to Renly, she had been betrothed 3 times by the age of 16, I'm not sure he did not try to force the issue but after beating up her last husband  I imagine she was no longer a decent match to Houses Lord Selwyn found worthy. 

[Stormking902]

1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

Tarth is a poor island at the end of the world. It is not even remotely in the same league as the greater houses.

Brienne is Selwyn's only child, but not necessarily his only heir. There might be other Tarths out there we don't know about, and we don't even know whether Selwyn wants his daughter to succeed. He could have made preparations to disinherit her (with a woman as 'unnatural' as Brienne this shouldn't be very hard).

But Brienne could, of course, also succeed her father and then rule childless until her own death after which Tarth goes to some cousin or the Iron Throne hands the island to some other house if no heirs can be found.

It happened rather often with the houses who held Harrenhal.

What evidence do you have that Tarth is poor? They were once kings in their own right and only bent the knee to the Stormkings when the Evenfalls daughter Wed the Stormking. There island is described as gorgeous with lakes and plenty of waterfalls and some of the finest marble in the world, marble so fine the Arryns imported it to help make the Eryie. They also have a small fleet for naval defense and are in a perfect position for trade with Essos I highly doubt they are poor. 

[Lord Varys]

1 minute ago, Stormking902 said:

What evidence do you have that Tarth is poor? They were once kings in their own right and only bent the knee to the Stormkings when the Evenfalls daughter Wed the Stormking. There island is described as gorgeous with lakes and plenty of waterfalls and some of the finest marble in the world, marble so fine the Arryns imported it to help make the Eryie. They also have a small fleet for naval defense and are in a perfect position for trade with Essos I highly doubt they are poor. 

The fact that the Evenstar couldn't meet Vargo Hoat's ransom demands. And Jaime's claims about 'the sapphire island' are in no way supported by the fact (regarding to the riches of the island, not the physical presence of sapphires).

However, I have to admit that the fact that they have costly marble is sort of at odds with that. Perhaps the marble has been exhausted since the Eyrie has been built?

Being a king doesn't mean you are rich. Once there were petty kings all over the place and they were not all rich.

[Dorian Martell's son]

2 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

Brienne is the sole heir to the island of Tarth and its wealth, house Tarth is on equal ground with house Swann and Dondarrion of the Stormlands in terms of power but no man wants to be her husband because she's ugly? Thats nonsense and most men especially men with great ambition would jump at the chance to marry Brienne and take her fathers lands and incomes. If your a real piece of shit get a couple a kids off her and have her killed and remarry, it sounds horrible and it is but there are some real scum who would love this idea. 

\/ \/ 

2 hours ago, Tucu said:

She was bethroded 3 times: one died, another one rejected her (Connington) and she humiliated the third one in combat.

/thread. Just lock it and be done now. no need for more replies 

[Stormking902]

3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The fact that the Evenstar couldn't meet Vargo Hoat's ransom demands. And Jaime's claims about 'the sapphire island' are in no way supported by the fact (regarding to the riches of the island, not the physical presence of sapphires).

However, I have to admit that the fact that they have costly marble is sort of at odds with that. Perhaps the marble has been exhausted since the Eyrie has been built?

Being a king doesn't mean you are rich. Once there were petty kings all over the place and they were not all rich.

The Evenfall king of the past was never described as a petty king like many other houses are, and he had to have enough strength for the Stormking to reach a marriage agreement and murge there houses. 

Also its not that lord Selwyn couldnt meet Vargos demands at all, he offered him 300 gold dragons which is a very good ransom for a sell sword like Vargo and a "fair" offer. Im sure Selwyn expected to hagle the price a little so probably settle at 500 dragons, the problem is Vargo didnt want dragons anymore he wanted Saphires thanks to Jamies interferance. 

 

My final point is that it is litterally the only place in the Stormlands that ships can safly dock, so Tarth must be a type of shipping buffer between Essos and the Stormlands for some traders. And centuries ago I assume Tarth was even richer but has met a decline since the Targs and Kingslanding like Driftmark, Duskendale, and others. 

[Stormking902]

3 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

\/ \/ 

/thread. Just lock it and be done now. no need for more replies 

So what? She should have more offers then she would know what to do with, were talking about gaining a lordship and vast lands. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

2 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

So what? She should have more offers then she would know what to do with, were talking about gaining a lordship and vast lands. 

and George said this to you about his story?

[Lord Varys]

1 minute ago, Stormking902 said:

The Evenfall king of the past was never described as a petty king like many other houses are, and he had to have enough strength for the Stormking to reach a marriage agreement and murge there houses. 

That in and of itself doesn't make them a great or wealthy house. The Estermonts also intermarried with the Baratheons recently and they are neither an influential nor a rich house, either. Stuff like that apparently does happen.

1 minute ago, Stormking902 said:

Also its not that lord Selwyn couldnt meet Vargos demands at all, he offered him 300 gold dragons which is a very good ransom for a sell sword like Vargo and a "fair" offer. Im sure Selwyn expected to hagle the price a little so probably settle at 500 dragons, the problem is Vargo didnt want dragons anymore he wanted Saphires thanks to Jamies interferance. 

What we hear is that Vargo wants more since he thinks Selwyn is a rich man. And a rich man could afford more.

1 minute ago, Stormking902 said:

My final point is that it is litterally the only place in the Stormlands that ships can safly dock, so Tarth must be a type of shipping buffer between Essos and the Stormlands for some traders. And centuries ago I assume Tarth was even richer but has met a decline since the Targs and Kingslanding like Driftmark, Duskendale, and others. 

Could very well be that they were more powerful in the past. And they would have certainly had some ships.

[The Fattest Leech]

One word:

Jaime Lannister. 

[kissdbyfire]

36 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

She was 18 at the start of the series and before that had been sent to Renly, she had been betrothed 3 times by the age of 16, I'm not sure he did not try to force the issue but after beating up her last husband  I imagine she was no longer a decent match to Houses Lord Selwyn found worthy. 

I don't know... I suppose I just see it differently.

I mean, I find it perfectly natural, in this setting, for a lord to try to find a match for his daughter, no? And the point I was trying to make is that most lords would continue trying and some would even "punish" such a wilful daughter. And even when/if they give up on marrying said wilful daughter, they'd just force her into becoming a septa or just keep her at home. But Selwyn is able to see past the norm and allows her to train at arms, etc. 

And I think even w/ that track record of failed attempts at engagements/marriages, she is still a good catch for many, many men out there. 

[kissdbyfire]

16 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

One word:

Jaime Lannister. 

But that's two words!

ETA: two words I totally agree w/ btw!

[Nevets]

I think Selwyn essentially gave up on making an arranged marriage.  He probably realized that he would not likely find someone who would accept Brienne, and that Brienne would also accept, and figured that forcing the issue would cause more problems than it would solve.  I think he is hoping that she will be able to arrange a love match on her own with somebody suitable.  

Brienne is a very unusual sort of person.  Trying to arrange a marriage with a stranger is probably not going to work.  It needs to be someone who knows her, respects her and has an idea of what he is getting himself into.

[The Fattest Leech]

9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

But that's two words!

ETA: two words I totally agree w/ btw!

Well then, that’s just twice the fun! 

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, Nevets said:

I think Selwyn essentially gave up on making an arranged marriage.

I'm thinking you are correct.

Feast for Crows - Brienne II     She was sixteen and no stranger to a sword, but still shy despite her prowess in the yard. Yet somehow she had found the courage to tell Ser Humfrey that she would accept chastisement only from a man who could outfight her. The old knight purpled, but agreed to don his own armor to teach her a woman's proper place. They fought with blunted tourney weapons, so Brienne's mace had no spikes. She broke Ser Humfrey's collarbone, two ribs, and their betrothal. He was her third prospective husband, and her last. Her father did not insist again.

[Bernie Mac]

10 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I don't know... I suppose I just see it differently.

From your original post it sounds like your congratulating him for being progressive, as if he was some 1920's father allowing his daughter to live her own life.  Personally, I find just to much of a leap, their society is light  years behind ours in terms of misogyny.  This reeks of him washing his hands of her rather than treating Brienne how she wants to be treated.

Tyrion in peace time has two men who can act as guards, in war time Tywin sends him from Harrenhal to kings Landing with hundreds of men. The majority of lords would not be sending out their sons without some kind of squire/backup, the fact that the 17 year old Brienne has neither suggests her father does not think of her as a priority. 

Selwyn lowballing a man of Hoat's reputation for the return of his only living child is also telling, as is him shipping her off at 16 when her third betrothal had failed. 

10 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I mean, I find it perfectly natural, in this setting, for a lord to try to find a match for his daughter, no?

Right, but your original point was that Selwyn was odd when in fact he was like every other father, maybe even worse as Brienne clearly did not want to be married and made it clear yet her father had first betrothed her at the age of 7 and was planning to marry her as soon as she was flowered.  His third choice was a man of 65 a man who told Brienne she would 'no her place', this was not a father looking out for her daughter's happiness, it was a father trying to rid himself of an embarrassing daughter. 

10 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

 

And the point I was trying to make is that most lords would continue trying and some would even "punish" such a wilful daughter.

He did, the last man was incredibly hurt in the process.  Brienne had gone from a younger son of a powerful Lord, a landed knight (Connington) to an old household knight. Going any lower would have been bad for the House and given Brienne's reputation for both beauty, unwillingness to marry and ability to kick ass her suitors would have been limited. 

10 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

 

And even when/if they give up on marrying said wilful daughter, they'd just force her into becoming a septa or just keep her at home. But Selwyn is able to see past the norm and allows her to train at arms, etc. 

or simply didn't care about her childhood too busy with his different woman every year, allowing her to do as she pleased due to the fact that he was always going to marry her off. he could not have expected that she would physically beat up her suitor. 

10 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

And I think even w/ that track record of failed attempts at engagements/marriages, she is still a good catch for many, many men out there. 

not many that would be a suitable match for the daughter of Lord Tarth. 

my pet theory is that Brienne, with both Baratheon and Targaryen ancestry, is going to be the monarch at the end of the series and she will have to give up her 'knighthhood' lifestyle and actually marry for the good of the realm.