Maia Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 On 10/4/2018 at 4:21 PM, Jabar of House Titan said: You really, really believe that the 5-year-gap was that necessary? Yes, IMHO the scrapping of it was the main reason for the "Meerenese Knot" and GRRM's current difficulties with TWoW. Too many things have to be accelerated in a more or less contrived manner to move all the main players to where they need to be and justify a bevy of young teenagers and children being able to pull off epic world-saving moves in a grim and consequence-laden world like ASoIaF, that is singularly unsuitable for something like this. Quote I think a big, across-the-board time jump of 1 year (2 years max) was kind of necessary. But 5? That's a very long time, especially for time-sensitive things such as the Others and the wildlings. It would have been ideal if GRRM had been able to introduce several-months to a year gaps into the narrative throughout, like he initially planned to - for instance, Robb gathering troops and marching them south should have taken very much longer, realistically. Heck, Tywin gathering and training his troops should have taken months rather than a couple of weeks! But he was unable to introduce "breathing pauses" into his writing, for some reason. Yet the young protagonists _really_ needed to be 5 years older than they were after the ending of ASoS for things to unfold organically, IMHO. As to the wildlings and the Others? Boom - an unseasonably warm Autumn. That and Stannis at the Wall would have held the wildlings nicely and the Others had every reason to induce complacency in their opponents after their gambit to use Mance's army to break through the Wall failed. They are thinking creatures - they have waited for thousands of years, they could have waited for 5 more for their opportunity. On 10/4/2018 at 5:00 PM, Trefayne said: Five years gives Tommen the chance to become a young, but competent ruler under Kevan's guidance, severely curtailing Cersei's influence over the story and having her and Jaime's plotlines just peter out. What?! A 13-year-old under regency a "competent" ruler? Sorry, not everybody is a wunderkind - and Tommen was very much signposted as normal. Nor would Kevan have been in position to curtail Cersei, if she had been more like her earlier self, minus the Joffrey blind-spot. She would have kept Tommen firmly under her thumb. It would have made sense for her to unravel gradually, as she had to deal with numerous difficulties and as consummation of Tommen's marriage became imminent, with the attendant rise of Margaery's status and influence. Heck, the volume after the 5-year-gap could have started with Kevan's death of natural causes and Cersei having to operate without his moderating influence for the first time. Quote Tywin would never had let the High Sparrow or the Faith Militant exist, let alone allow what happened to his daughter to stand. Obviously, this stuff would have only happened after his death. Whether he could have done anything about the growing influence of the sparrows in the country regions would have very much depended on what else he had to deal with during the gap. For instance, an unseasonably warm Autumn could have caused a drought over the significant parts of Westeros, epidemics were always a danger, etc. - and all such disasters could have been used by sparrow preachers as signs of divine displeasure with the Lannister regime - as seen in "The Sworn Sword". Additionally, Tywin was not perfect - his arrogance could have blinded him to the danger, and Cersei's ineptitude after his death might have allowed them to seize power, ditto. Or it could have happened very differently - maybe not sparrows at all, but just a very ambitious and fanatical High Septon, with dreams of grandeur. It would have made sense to align Tommen's regime with the Faith more, given Stannis's R'llorism, Robb's Old Gods worship and doubtful status of Dany's faith, which could have been easily spun into worship of foreign gods as well. I could imagine Euron holding back with Tywin still around and Asha or Victarion ruling the Ironborn in the interim, just to be ousted by him once Tywin was dead. But Stannis is a problem in such a scenario, because Bolton would have had all the support he needed to destroy him. Unless he had to fight the Ironborn and deal with an epidemic? Maybe? If Victarion had succeeded Balon, he would have likely continued his brother's policies, but Asha wouldn't have. Quote The Balon angle has merit, although I was always of the mind that the Ironborn were introduced as more of a threat at that point because GRRM needed something to occupy time (and pages) until he got the main players into position in what he felt was a believable time frame sans five year gap. No, Euron was depicted as a significant future danger in ACoK when we first got a close look at the Greyjoys. He was always supposed to be a major threat, but the rest of the narrative just didn't move quickly enough, so after Balon's death in AcoK(!) he had to be stalled in various ways. Given that Tywin's death is an important character development milestone for Tyrion, I think that it was Balon's far too early death that was a significant mis-step that derailed much of the plot progression. The 5-year-gap could have still been salvaged by letting Tywin survive, though, even at the cost of weakening Tyrion's character arc, somewhat - GRRM is just over-fond of great, impactful scenes and cliff-hangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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