How Should We Deal With Bigoted Comments Made By Celebrities When They Were Teens?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

American sports fans are aware of this topic, but I’m not sure how much the broader audience is. Recently multiple professional baseball players have been revealed to have made racist and homophobic tweets when they were teenagers. A top football prospect found himself in the same place right before the NFL draft. People are digging through celebrities’ social media accounts and are finding some awful things they’ve said in the past. The question is pretty straight forward: how should we deal with this? Should their professional careers be ruined? Should they be forgiven if they apologize and show contrition? Should we demand to know what made them change their views? It’s a trickier question than it sounds, and I’m curious what people think about this issue.

Discuss…

[S John]

There oughtta be some kind of agreed upon statute of limitations on dumb shit you've said in the past UNLESS you want to run for public office.  If you want to be the kind of person who makes decisions for the rest of us then the scrutiny comes with the territory. 

But for everyone else?  I wonder how many people are out there who feel like they are the same person they were when they were a teenager.  How many people are the same person they were 10 years ago?  Even 5 in some cases?  People change and evolve over time.  People are fallible, they make mistakes and they learn from them.  I don't think I've ever been a hateful person, but I would absolutely hate to be held to the standard of anything I said or did in my teens.  I feel like most people are mid- late 20's before they really begin to understand themselves and even then, life will have more surprises in store that will shape your personality and viewpoints.  I honestly pity someone who believes that they popped out of the womb perfect and unspoiled and never had to live and learn and grow through the phase of being a fucking idiot.  Most of us are just lucky enough that social media wasn't around when we were teens to document our most idiotic time period.  

With people going out there and digging through celeb accounts way into the past to find dirt on them, I think it's a bunch of sad people looking to find novel ways to tear other people down.  Now, the person who said those things should apologize and explain how they've changed, and should probably keep a tighter leash on their old social media posts, but nobody's career should be ruined for something they did 10 years ago that nobody cared about at the time just because the internet has decided to make a sport out of fucking up people's lives.  

[Jace, Extat]

A good asskicking. Three punches per bigoted comment. Punches can be exchanged for 2 kicks.

[DMC]

Shorten your topic.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

I truly hope no one ever holds the stupid ass shit I said as a teenager against me.

Unless it was something said repeatedly, and not just an off the cuff comment, I wouldn't hold something said as a teen it against an adult, especially if they currently show no signs of the things expressed.

[HexMachina]

Agree with Lany and the others. As long as this doesn’t seem to be a reflection of their current beliefs/behaviour/personality don’t see why it should be held against them. People are capable of change, especially from your younger years. I said, did and thought some laughable and awful things when I was younger, many of which I regret and repent now. Actually it’s funny this thread came up now, as I was just thinking about stuff I did when I was younger and reached out to someone I was hurtful to and apologised. 

In anticipation of a follow up question ‘how do you know they’ve changed?’ The answer is you cannot know for sure, but you can make an educated deduction by looking at whether they have repeated what they said,did they ever apologise or show remorse, how they currently behave etc. 

[john]

Depends what it is.  Genuinely hateful stuff published for the world to see is hard to excuse.  Especially for American sports stars who are typically already on their career track from like age 15.

[Week]

I don't see any point in forgiveness if you are unable to acknowledge previous bigoted (etc.) comments without demonstrating contrition, acknowledgement of WHY bigotry (even words) can be hurtful, and center the apology on the group maligned. Time doesn't heal all wounds or magically teach anti-racist ideology.

By this logic, Josh Hader, Sean Newcomb, and Trea Turner all fail. Unless there have been subsequent comments that I have not seen.

This is a good (better) twitter thread from Sean Doolittle on the Nats:

 

[MercenaryChef]

I wrote on this very forum some very distasteful and aggressive remarks about polo shirts. I now own a couple Fred Perry. 

but, I didn't say any racist or homophobic shit.

sorry,  but a dumbfuck racist or homophobic teen likely doesn't change their stripes in their 20's-30's. should these morons lose their jobs? dunno. but, they have a lot to do to change people's perceptions about what they posted in their teens.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 minutes ago, MercurialCannibal said:

I wrote on this very forum some very distasteful and aggressive remarks about polo shirts. I now own a couple Fred Perry. 

but, I didn't say any racist or homophobic shit.

sorry,  but a dumbfuck racist or homophobic teen likely doesn't change their stripes in their 20's-30's. should these morons lose their jobs? dunno. but, they have a lot to do to change people's perceptions about what they posted in their teens.

I think they can change, but these players need to specifically articulate what cased them to change. As far as I can tell, all but one guy have basically said I was "young and dumb," which might work for someone who is a lot older than them, but these guys are in their early to mid 20's and the tweets are not that old. With out a more specific responses, I'm skeptical that they have changed and are just saying what they need to say to try and get past the story.

I don't think they should lose their jobs, but good god was it disgusting to watch the Brewers fans give Hader a standing ovation on his first appearance after the news about his tweets broke. 

[dbunting]

Something that was written on media like that when someone was a kid should be easy to interpret. In the years since the dumbass comments have there been anymore made? Has the person shown themselves to be a racist or bigot etc...since then? If not then judge the person on their actions and who they have become and not on a one or two off comment from their teens.

If I am not mistaken in one incident the kid was reciting song lyrics on twitter, yes he chose certain phrases, but when taken out of context it changes them. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

4 hours ago, MercurialCannibal said:

I wrote on this very forum some very distasteful and aggressive remarks about polo shirts. I now own a couple Fred Perry. 

but, I didn't say any racist or homophobic shit.

sorry,  but a dumbfuck racist or homophobic teen likely doesn't change their stripes in their 20's-30's. should these morons lose their jobs? dunno. but, they have a lot to do to change people's perceptions about what they posted in their teens.

Yup.  This is the important part.  If you think it's unfortunate that you are judged a racist or bigot for saying racist or bigoted things, don't just excuse it as stupid youth.  Demonstrate that it's not the way you are anymore. 

You don't just get some pass that's like "oh I said that a few years ago so no big deal".  Actually the onus is on you to show some kind of improvement.

[Ormond]

16 hours ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I think they can change, but these players need to specifically articulate what cased them to change. As far as I can tell, all but one guy have basically said I was "young and dumb," which might work for someone who is a lot older than them, but these guys are in their early to mid 20's and the tweets are not that old. With out a more specific responses, I'm skeptical that they have changed and are just saying what they need to say to try and get past the story.

I don't think they should lose their jobs, but good god was it disgusting to watch the Brewers fans give Hader a standing ovation on his first appearance after the news about his tweets broke. 

I think you are fooling yourself here. When people change their views, there usually isn't a single "aha moment" they can point to where there is one specific thing that caused them to change. The change itself is a process that occurs over a longer time period and there are multiple inputs into it.

Plus psychological research shows that most human beings are really quite bad at consciously knowing where their opinions and preferences come from. Even if someone was trying to be honest about this, there's a good chance their explanation would not be accurate. And it would be really easy to come up with a completely false story about this in order to make oneself look good. Personally I think "I was young and dumb" is a better explanation than most more complex statements people could come up with. 

[lessthanluke]

2 hours ago, Ormond said:

I think you are fooling yourself here. When people change their views, there usually isn't a single "aha moment" they can point to where there is one specific thing that caused them to change. The change itself is a process that occurs over a longer time period and there are multiple inputs into it.

Plus psychological research shows that most human beings are really quite bad at consciously knowing where their opinions and preferences come from. Even if someone was trying to be honest about this, there's a good chance their explanation would not be accurate. And it would be really easy to come up with a completely false story about this in order to make oneself look good. Personally I think "I was young and dumb" is a better explanation than most more complex statements people could come up with. 

Agree with all this. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

I'm sure there are some cases that are difficult.  I'm sure there are people who are genuinely contrite and who were young and stupid and just parroting what they've been exposed to.

Maybe aspiring young so-and-so's should count to ten before broadcasting their brain farts to the world.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

7 hours ago, Ormond said:

I think you are fooling yourself here. When people change their views, there usually isn't a single "aha moment" they can point to where there is one specific thing that caused them to change. The change itself is a process that occurs over a longer time period and there are multiple inputs into it.

Plus psychological research shows that most human beings are really quite bad at consciously knowing where their opinions and preferences come from. Even if someone was trying to be honest about this, there's a good chance their explanation would not be accurate. And it would be really easy to come up with a completely false story about this in order to make oneself look good. Personally I think "I was young and dumb" is a better explanation than most more complex statements people could come up with. 

I agree that it's a process, but looking bad I think people can figure out when they started to change their minds, and it's helpful to hear people explain how and why they changed. And it doesn't matter if their recall is 100% accurate, what's important is the expression of learning and growth. I believe if they articulate they can help others change too. Giving a BS excuse to get past the news cycle helps no one, especially the person give the excuse. 

[Altherion]

Let him who never said or did anything stupid as a teen cast the first stone. As a teenager, I held quite a few views which, with more experience, are obviously naive or downright silly. For example, I was an enthusiastic liberal and strongly disagreed (with arguments along the same lines as the people who keep complaining about "both side-ism" in the politics thread) with a friend of mine who referred to the candidates of the 2000 election as Gush and Bore. Ah, the folly of youth!

Furthermore, children often develop their own language which uses mostly the same words and structure as that of the adults around them, but has quite a few deliberate irregularities which are rather likely to involve slang and/or curse words. If my middle school communicated via Twitter and the like, I suspect roughly 80% of the student body would stand accused of bigotry. The other 20% were immigrants from formerly communist countries whose parents imprinted on them at an early age the importance of being very careful regarding language. At the time (there's that naivete again), I thought the adults were being paranoid -- after all, the US has the First Amendment -- but, as this thread shows, they were absolutely correct.

[Larry of the Lawn]

1 hour ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I agree that it's a process, but looking bad I think people can figure out when they started to change their minds, and it's helpful to hear people explain how and why they changed. And it doesn't matter if their recall is 100% accurate, what's important is the expression of learning and growth. I believe if they articulate they can help others change too. Giving a BS excuse to get past the news cycle helps no one, especially the person give the excuse. 

I'd say what's more important is just demonstrating change. 

To everyone else just saying "ah stupid youth" I'd say that the default position shouldn't be "oh you used to drop N-bombs regularly but now you don't, good job".  If you used to say fucked up shit maybe show everyone else that you don't actually believe it.  It's kind of hard to say "well I was young and dumb but I'm not really a racist" if you're just more subtle about it now.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

I'd say what's more important is just demonstrating change. 

To everyone else just saying "ah stupid youth" I'd say that the default position shouldn't be "oh you used to drop N-bombs regularly but now you don't, good job".  If you used to say fucked up shit maybe show everyone else that you don't actually believe it.  It's kind of hard to say "well I was young and dumb but I'm not really a racist" if you're just more subtle about it now.

Yeah, that's basically been my point. They should demonstrate how and why they changed, not just blame it on the ignorance of youth and move on. 

[Week]

14 hours ago, Altherion said:

Furthermore, children often develop their own language which uses mostly the same words and structure as that of the adults around them, but has quite a few deliberate irregularities which are rather likely to involve slang and/or curse words. If my middle school communicated via Twitter and the like, I suspect roughly 80% of the student body would stand accused of bigotry. The other 20% were immigrants from formerly communist countries whose parents imprinted on them at an early age the importance of being very careful regarding language. At the time (there's that naivete again), I thought the adults were being paranoid -- after all, the US has the First Amendment -- but, as this thread shows, they were absolutely correct.

The First Amendment is not a bulwark against the consequence of societal reaction to bigotry and does not have any relevance here.