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Why does the Hound hate Tyrion so much?


Peach King

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Keep in mind that as Sandor became Cersei's shield he would have spent the majority of his time in King's Landing. 

I don't think Sandor particularly disliked Tyrion, at least not anymore than most people. I think the early instance is because Tyrion is the only Lannister he can make fun off and get away with it, most likely on Joffrey's back. It reads a lot like it was made for Joff's benefit. 

His later vehemence, I agree stems from Tyrion's marriage to Sansa and the Blackwater. 

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Tyrion is a younger brother. Sandor is a younger brother. Tyrion's older brother is a knight. Sandor's older brother is a knight. 

Tyrion was born twisted and malformed, but is treated as superior. Sandor would have been the biggest kid anyone ever had if his brother hadn't been bigger. He seems perceptive and physically capable, even has a notion of actual honor, but he's treated as inferior his whole life, and especially in the company of Lannisters. It's pretty natural for Sandor to resent Tyrion.

...and the wildfire didn't help.

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4 hours ago, Peach King said:

"Bugger Joffrey. Bugger the queen". 

I wouldnt read to much into that. Thats just how he talks, the rest of the quote really goes in on Tyrion, thr man he actually hates.

Joff was mean to Sandor, calling him dog, though I dont think Sandor minded. When Joff orders the KG to beat Sansa, Sandor didnt and Joff not once reprimanded him for it

 

I dont think Blackwater had anything to do with it, Sandor hated Tyrion before that. After Sansa, Sandor probably wants to kill Tyrion

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1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

I wouldnt read to much into that. Thats just how he talks, the rest of the quote really goes in on Tyrion, thr man he actually hates.

Joff was mean to Sandor, calling him dog, though I dont think Sandor minded. When Joff orders the KG to beat Sansa, Sandor didnt and Joff not once reprimanded him for it

 

I dont think Blackwater had anything to do with it, Sandor hated Tyrion before that. After Sansa, Sandor probably wants to kill Tyrion

Yeah it's weird he doesn't hate Joffrey so much. 

I think the Blackwater gave him PTSD and he hated Tyrion for it cause he tells Arya Tyrion should get burned alive in wildfire. But after Sansa marries him he hates him even more of course. 

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38 minutes ago, Peach King said:

Yeah it's weird he doesn't hate Joffrey so much. 

I think the Blackwater gave him PTSD and he hated Tyrion for it cause he tells Arya Tyrion should get burned alive in wildfire. But after Sansa marries him he hates him even more of course. 

Joff treated his swornsword with respect, he could turn on the charm when he wanted. Its not that weird.

The ptsd is because of the lovely childhood trauma that only Gregor and the toy knight could accomplish. Blackwater revived his ptsd. Tyrion not burn KL nor the KL army, he burnt the Blackwater and Stannis' army. However the fire was close enough to Sandor for him to turn tail and run. He later lies to himself saying he ran because "even dogs get tired of being kicked" in hindsight he agrees with his lie.

Sandor was mean to Tyrion before Blackwater, fire and Sansa arent the only reasons. Honestly though, who likes Tyrion? Maybe Penny, Bronn Shaga and Brown Ben? Maybe. And who likes Sandor? Maybe Joffrey and Sansa, maybe. They both have strong conflicting personalities

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On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 2:29 PM, EloImFizzy said:

I mean to be fair the Hound doesn't really like anyone. He can probably count on one hand people that he tolerates, and lets be honest a Lannister isn't going to be one of them. 

Lol, this was my thought too, except I'll add a caveat: The Hound hates pretty much everyone, and pretty much everyone hates Tyrion.

So it's really quite elegant, literary-wise.

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Abrasive men will rub each other the wrong way when in the same room.  The Hound has emotional issues.  Tyrion has issues as well.  They will rub each other the wrong way and hold a grudge.  

22 hours ago, Buell Rider said:

Understand, the show-Tyrion is not the same person as the book-Tyrion.  Show Tyrion is a creation of Dan and Dave.  Martin's character is an obnoxious and bitter person who throws insults at better men because he can get away with it.  There is no courage in that.  It doesn't make him more of a man.  One swing from Alliser's sword could have put an end to his mouth for good.  I can understand why people would hate him.  Tyrion got away with a lot of insults that would have gotten any other man who isn't a Lannister killed.  The people's fear of Tywin Lannister kept Tyrion safe.

 

20 hours ago, zandru said:

Here's my theory (and note, I agree with many of your other analyses, too). Tyrion and Sandor are of a age. Sandor came into Tywin's service when he was 12, after Gregor killed their father and Sandor left home for good. He appears to have been assigned to guard Cersei rather quickly, which suggests he was pretty good sized by then and proficient in arms. As an added advantage, he was hideous, which added to his effectiveness as a bodyguard.

Now, consider the contrast between Tyrion, a tiny stunted ugly child-going-on-manhood. Tyrion didn't grow much, but Sandor did. But here's where Tyrion had some advantages. True, he was ugly - but Sandor was uglier. True, he was short - but he was A Lannister. This meant that Sandor may have been one of the only people in Casterly Rock (and beyond) that Tyrion was free to make fun of and treat badly.

I suspect that Tyrion did. He's got a sharp wit and little kindness in using it. Tiny Tyrion probably razzed the big ugly galoot every chance he got. Once Tyrion got into his serious drinking, whoring, and gambling years, Sandor would have felt the unnecessary abuse more keenly. After all, Tyrion was hardly a moral paragon, or even a good example. Here Sandor was, taking crap from a stunted little drunkard and unable to so much as insult him back, for fear of repercussions. After all, he wasn't even a knight, much less a lord.

The bad blood started early, in my opinion, and the Blackwater with its wildfire made it a lot worse. It wasn't just the carnage, or the PTSD reawakened - Tyrion made a point of humiliating Sandor in front of his men. ("If I'm a half man, what are you all?")

These as well.  Tyrion had the advantage over Sandor because of his family name.  I can see Tyrion tormenting Sandor.  Sandor can't give back because Tyrion is the son of the most powerful lord in the realm.  Sandor just had to bite his tongue and take it.  Tyrion being the acerbic little man must have loved to pick on Sandor because he knew he was safe.

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5 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Joff treated his swornsword with respect, he could turn on the charm when he wanted.

When did this ever occur in the books? Every time I recall Joffrey talking to, or referring to Sandor, he's always "dog". True, at times he will brag about "my dog" can do this or "my dog" can do that, but that's treating Sandor as his property, not as a man that he respects. Joffrey did know his manners, I admit, but he used them only when required and seemed to set them all aside when he was crowned King. And never, that I recall, with the Hound. Even when he named Sandor to the King's Guard - a really big deal - it was on the order of 'ya want my leftover french fries, dog?'

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1 hour ago, zandru said:

When did this ever occur in the books? Every time I recall Joffrey talking to, or referring to Sandor, he's always "dog". True, at times he will brag about "my dog" can do this or "my dog" can do that, but that's treating Sandor as his property, not as a man that he respects. Joffrey did know his manners, I admit, but he used them only when required and seemed to set them all aside when he was crowned King. And never, that I recall, with the Hound. Even when he named Sandor to the King's Guard - a really big deal - it was on the order of 'ya want my leftover french fries, dog?'

But Sandor likes dogs, and Barri is no cold french fry

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32 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

But Sandor likes dogs, and Barri is no cold french fry

Calling someone a dog is never a compliment; you can feel Joffrey's contempt when he uses the term. You misinterpret the french fry allusion; it's the position of King's Guard that Joffrey treated like just some little thing. "How about it, dog?" Whereas we can be assured (Sansa never says otherwise) that every knighting, every creating of new lordships, every appointment to a high position was conducted with the requisite courtesy, ceremony, and gravity. Except throwing a bone to the family dog.

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On 8/2/2018 at 8:37 PM, The Ned's Little Girl said:

Do you remember the old saying, "No man is a hero to his valet"? Sandor, being the Lannister's personal hired sword, knows all of them in a very intimate way. He sees the private sides of them that they hide from public consumption (which all people do, not just the Lannisters). That fact that he loathes Tyrion says quite a lot about who Tyrion really is as a person.

Sandor never was Tyrion's or Tywin's sworn shield, though. He serves as Joff's sworn shield, and that's it. Prior to that he was Cersei's creature, and before that probably employed in a minor capacity at the Rock. The idea that this man knows Tyrion Lannister intimately is not very convincing, especially not considering that Tyrion himself doesn't seem to like the man (meaning they would have never spent much time together, anyway, considering a Lannister of Casterly Rock wouldn't hang out with retainers he doesn't like).

Sandor's mocking of Tyrion - as well as his offer to kill the direwolves for Joffrey - actually shows that the man has a strong nasty trait.

22 hours ago, goldenlion said:

That idea actually has some merit to it. But it would not surprise me if Sandor, too, was made to participate in the thing. 

What goes against the idea that Sandor was involved in this is that Tyrion doesn't really give shit about Sandor Clegane. The guy is just a guy in their service, nothing more, nothing less. Although who presumes to mock the son of the Lord of Casterly Rock and the brother to queen to suck up to the Crown Prince.

20 hours ago, zandru said:

But, as I said earlier, it would be natural for young Tyrion to kick down at the one person more grotesque than himself, who could not fight back. It's kind of unusual for Tyrion not to have seen this in himself when he talks up his fondness for "bastards and broken things." But then, Tyrion may assume that Sandor has it made: a great fighter who is literally legendary in his own time. That, and a few coppers will get you a cup of wine.

Tyrion has no idea about Sandor's fear of fire no any inclination of his sad story. I honestly doubt they interacted much at CR. If Sandor's loathing of Tyrion comes from the Tysha episode then, most likely, because he heard rumors about it rather than from actual interaction.

9 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

I wouldnt read to much into that. Thats just how he talks, the rest of the quote really goes in on Tyrion, thr man he actually hates.

Joff was mean to Sandor, calling him dog, though I dont think Sandor minded. When Joff orders the KG to beat Sansa, Sandor didnt and Joff not once reprimanded him for it

They did get along reasonably well with one another, and early on in AGoT it is clear that Sandor is one of the people feeding Joff's darker impulses - he is the one suggesting to kill the direwolves, he is mocking Tyrion to make points with Joffrey, and he is the main one mocking and challenging the Starks, getting off on fueling the conflict between Joffrey and Robb (instead of, you know, trying to calm everybody down).

Sandor is no good influence of Joffrey.

But it is clear that Joff truly likes his 'dog', and the word is not used in derogatory sense (or at least Sandor doesn't see it that way). The fact that Joff never insists on Sandor beating Sansa (although he could have) also shows that Joff wanted to keep his dog sweet. He knew he didn't want to do stuff like that, so Sandor, as Joff's favorite, didn't have to do them.

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20 minutes ago, zandru said:

Calling someone a dog is never a compliment; you can feel Joffrey's contempt when he uses the term. You misinterpret the french fry allusion; it's the position of King's Guard that Joffrey treated like just some little thing. "How about it, dog?" Whereas we can be assured (Sansa never says otherwise) that every knighting, every creating of new lordships, every appointment to a high position was conducted with the requisite courtesy, ceremony, and gravity. Except throwing a bone to the family dog.

Youve never seen 8 mile, dawg?

It was done deaminingly, but still done. It may be presented like a bone but its still the highest honor a warrior could achieve

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Sandor never was Tyrion's or Tywin's sworn shield, though.

Correct. But I dunna know the history behind how Sandor became Cersie's dog.

A Game of Thrones - Sansa I   Sansa hesitated. "If you like," she said uncertainly. "I suppose I could tie Lady up." She did not quite understand, though. "I didn't know you had a dog …"Joffrey laughed. "He's my mother's dog, in truth. She has set him to guard me, and so he does."/

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Correct. But I dunna know the history behind how Sandor became Cersie's dog.

Well, we can't be sure if Cersei asked or Tywin ordered, but it probably went something like this:

Tywin told Gregor to send him.

Gregor glared at Sandor and pointed.

Sandor glared back, just as meanly, then went and became Cersie's pup.

I'm sure the pay didn't hurt either.

 

I figure that the only reasons Tywin didn't have Gregor do it are he is more useful in the field as a terror device and Tywin figured he would chaff at the duty even more than his beta whipped brother.

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13 minutes ago, Trefayne said:

Well, we can't be sure if Cersei asked or Tywin ordered, but it probably went something like this:

Tywin told Gregor to send him.

Gregor glared at Sandor and pointed.

Sandor glared back, just as meanly, then went and became Cersie's pup.

I'm sure the pay didn't hurt either.

 

I figure that the only reasons Tywin didn't have Gregor do it are he is more useful in the field as a terror device and Tywin figured he would chaff at the duty even more than his beta whipped brother.


I can appreciate the humor. Seriously though, I dunna know how Sandor became Cersei's dog.

A Game of Thrones - Sansa I    "I didn't know you had a dog …"Joffrey laughed. "He's my mother's dog, in truth. She has set him to guard me, and so he does."

 

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3 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I can appreciate the humor. Seriously though, I dunna know how Sandor became Cersei's dog.

A Game of Thrones - Sansa I    "I didn't know you had a dog …"Joffrey laughed. "He's my mother's dog, in truth. She has set him to guard me, and so he does."

 

I can appreciate your query, but unless Sandor or Cersei decide to tell us we may never know.

I've always wondered why Sandor was in their service at all considering his attitudes. As I said, I'm sure the money didn't hurt, but he could have taken off and had the time of his life in Essos as a sellsword. If he's willing to work for the Lannisters and tolerate his brother, he can put up with most anything.

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9 hours ago, Trefayne said:

Well, we can't be sure if Cersei asked or Tywin ordered, but it probably went something like this:

Tywin told Gregor to send him.

Gregor glared at Sandor and pointed.

Sandor glared back, just as meanly, then went and became Cersie's pup.

I'm sure the pay didn't hurt either.

Sandor was in service at Casterly Rock after he left his home - Gregor never was, actually. Gregor isn't a household knight or sworn sword of the Lannisters. He sits at home in his keep and he attends tourneys and in war he does his duty to his lord. He is a landed knight, not a man who has to sell his sword to earn a living.

8 hours ago, Trefayne said:

I've always wondered why Sandor was in their service at all considering his attitudes. As I said, I'm sure the money didn't hurt, but he could have taken off and had the time of his life in Essos as a sellsword. If he's willing to work for the Lannisters and tolerate his brother, he can put up with most anything.

Sandor and his world view fit perfectly with the Lannisters. And they apparently reward him well for his service. The man doesn't care about justice and honor. I mean, he may also have developed the hots of Sansa, yet he gladly helped to arrest Ned and butchered the Stark guardsmen and didn't care one bit whether Joff and his siblings were the rightful heirs to the Iron Throne or not - never mind that as Joff's sworn shield his ultimate loyalty should have been to the boy's father, King Robert, not Queen Cersei.

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