Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 It would be better if Robert gave Highgarden to Tarly. Then Randyl would never think about betrayal when Viserys III comes to Westeros. Or Robert could give Highgarden to Stannis just as Aegon I gave Storm's end to Orys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunland Lord Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Send them All to the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 43 minutes ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said: It would be better if Robert gave Highgarden to Tarly. Then Randyl would never think about betrayal when Viserys III comes to Westeros. Or Robert could give Highgarden to Stannis just as Aegon I gave Storm's end to Orys. How could Robert do that? He's beaten Rhaegar and, thanks to Tywin, has Kings Landing. He does not control the Reach and is not in a position to give away Highgarden unless he goes to war directly with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckPunch Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 35 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said: How could Robert do that? He's beaten Rhaegar and, thanks to Tywin, has Kings Landing. He does not control the Reach and is not in a position to give away Highgarden unless he goes to war directly with them. The King has dominion over all of the other houses. It's his realm now, they just live in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, ChuckPunch said: The King has dominion over all of the other houses. It's his realm now, they just live in it. Westeros is a feudal kingdom, I think you are confusing it with an an absolute monarchy. If he wants to replace the ruler of the Reach, Westerlands, Dorne etc. he will have to take the fight to them. Without control of the region him making orders from kings landing means very little. Case in point, at the end of ACOK Bright Water Keep was given away be the crown and yet by the end of ADWD it is still being ruled by the Florents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron III Greyjoy Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 9 minutes ago, ChuckPunch said: The King has dominion over all of the other houses. It's his realm now, they just live in it. If that was the case then there wouldn't have been a rebellion in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckPunch Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 1 minute ago, EloImFizzy said: If that was the case then there wouldn't have been a rebellion in the first place. The reason there was a rebellion was because Jon Arryn broke the mold and refused to do as the King said. If there WASN'T at least implied domain by the King then in that case there would be no rebellion. 3 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said: Westeros is a feudal kingdom, I think you are confusing it with an an absolute monarchy. If he wants to replace the ruler of the Reach, Westerlands, Dorne etc. he will have to take the fight to them. Without control of the region him making orders from kings landing means very little. Case in point, at the end of ACOK Bright Water Keep was given away be the crown and yet by the end of ADWD it is still being ruled by the Florents I believe Westeros has a twist of absolute monarchy in their system, although you are right in that they don't specifically stick to that method of governance. The reactions in The Hedge Knight to Egg being Aegon (him merely having to flash a ring to become the boss), plus the way in which the Crown is treated as the supreme authority leads me to expect that there is normally a tiered system of control. In the North the Boltons have legitimacy just because the Crown says they do. Yes, the Starks had to be all but exterminated to make it happen, but the replacement Great House is chosen by the King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodorisfaclessman Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 50 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said: How could Robert do that? He's beaten Rhaegar and, thanks to Tywin, has Kings Landing. He does not control the Reach and is not in a position to give away Highgarden unless he goes to war directly with them. This In fact id go further....when robert talks of his worries about a targ invasion and the loyalty of his lords number 1 on thay list is the immense power wielded by highgarden and the reach! Stannis was married off to his ice queen wife as a weapon to dangle over the tyrells for precisely that reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodorisfaclessman Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, ChuckPunch said: The reason there was a rebellion was because Jon Arryn broke the mold and refused to do as the King said. If there WASN'T at least implied domain by the King then in that case there would be no rebellion. I believe Westeros has a twist of absolute monarchy in their system, although you are right in that they don't specifically stick to that method of governance. The reactions in The Hedge Knight to Egg being Aegon (him merely having to flash a ring to become the boss), plus the way in which the Crown is treated as the supreme authority leads me to expect that there is normally a tiered system of control. In the North the Boltons have legitimacy just because the Crown says they do. Yes, the Starks had to be all but exterminated to make it happen, but the replacement Great House is chosen by the King. Its a feudal structure the king is top of the food chain but westeros is no absolute monarchy..far from it The boltons sieze control as they have history(red kings) , a coalition of 4 major houses onside and 2 or more of the others cowed with hostages , with the added backing of crown and freys in a time where ironborn invasion has taken its toll too and a 'stark ' marriage....the crown passing its blessing does little to add to this as rooses constant paranoia shows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoth the raven, Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said: It would be better if Robert gave Highgarden to Tarly. Then Randyl would never think about betrayal when Viserys III comes to Westeros. Or Robert could give Highgarden to Stannis just as Aegon I gave Storm's end to Orys. Robert was not that strong. The war would never end if he tried to do something silly. The Tyrells would continue fighting. The Martells would worry about their own and fight Robert. The Targaryen Loyalists would continue fighting because they won't trust Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckPunch Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Just now, hodorisfaclessman said: Its a feudal structure the king is top of the food chain but westeros is no absolute monarchy..far from it The boltons sieze control as they have history(red kings) , a coalition of 4 major houses onside and 2 or more of the others cowed with hostages , with the added backing of crown and freys in a time where ironborn invasion has taken its toll too and a 'stark ' marriage....the crown passing its blessing does little to add to this as rooses constant paranoia shows I'll approach the bolded point first. Indeed Roose is certainly realistic about the tumultuous situation in Winterfell. There are many parties factoring in to the current state of affairs, but the King's appointment of Roose is surely not a small detail. Sure the Boltons have allies and friends outside of the Crown, but each of these parties are angling to be on the winning side so that when the Crown does become involved they may get rewarded somehow. Much like the Blackfyre rebellions, these houses have a preferred King to obey and aren't just ignoring the King. I am not meaning to say that people blindly do what the King says, I realize that they do not have absolute monarchy. However the citizenry of Westeros at least pretends that the King's words are inherently lawful and should be obeyed by all (ideally). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three-Fingered Pete Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 47 minutes ago, ChuckPunch said: The King has dominion over all of the other houses. It's his realm now, they just live in it. Vassalage doesn't quite work like that. The Crown needs loyal and friendly houses behind it. The Crown has dominion until the dragons fell out of the picture. After that I would think some sort of Westerosi version of Magna Carta went into effect. It may not have been pressed upon the Crown and formalized like it was against King John in our history, but the lords resisting the Crown and pressing their rights would be an inevitable outcome of the Targaryen's waning military might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodorisfaclessman Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 9 minutes ago, ChuckPunch said: I'll approach the bolded point first. Indeed Roose is certainly realistic about the tumultuous situation in Winterfell. There are many parties factoring in to the current state of affairs, but the King's appointment of Roose is surely not a small detail. Sure the Boltons have allies and friends outside of the Crown, but each of these parties are angling to be on the winning side so that when the Crown does become involved they may get rewarded somehow. Much like the Blackfyre rebellions, these houses have a preferred King to obey and aren't just ignoring the King. I am not meaning to say that people blindly do what the King says, I realize that they do not have absolute monarchy. However the citizenry of Westeros at least pretends that the King's words are inherently lawful and should be obeyed by all (ideally). Id say jorah sums up the peoples attitude to king and lords best in his speech to danys Esp in the north after recent events the hated crowns blessing is even less of a benefit, bolton rules as hes siezed power quickly and as we know that overlordship is on very shaky ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckPunch Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, Trefayne said: Vassalage doesn't quite work like that. The Crown needs loyal and friendly houses behind it. The Crown has dominion until the dragons fell out of the picture. After that I would think some sort of Westerosi version of Magna Carta went into effect. It my not have been pressed upon the Crown and formalized like it was against King John in our history, but the lords resisting the Crown and pressing their rights would be an inevitable outcome of the Targaryens waning military might. The dragons are an interesting part of this whole mess, and I think you've hit the nail on the head. With the dragons present it was likely what could be considered an absolute monarchy. Once the dragons died out, it seems like the idea of absolute monarchy stuck around for a while as seen in D&E. But once the Blackfyre rebellions really settled into historical context it seems like everything drifted over to the Magna Carta style structure you mention. Just now, hodorisfaclessman said: Id say jorah sums up the peoples attitude to king and lords best in his speech to danys Esp in the north after recent events the hated crowns blessing is even less of a benefit, bolton rules as hes siezed power quickly and as we know that overlordship is on very shaky ground Yes, and when you consider that they Crown has not had much impact on the North at all historically you can really see things falling apart for poor Roose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodorisfaclessman Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 1 hour ago, ChuckPunch said: Yes, and when you consider that they Crown has not had much impact on the North at all historically you can really see things falling apart for poor Roose. That endorsment and his new bride virtualy scream to all northerners his part in the red wedding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 The North obeys Roose simply because he is the strongest force in the North ATM, he believes he has some lords in his pocket like Barbrey Dustin and her Ryswell kin, Umbers because the Freys hold GJ and the Manderlys BUT litterally all of those houses want him dead accept the Freys so even though the "Crown" grants them LP status it really means jack shit. Barbrey is NOT team Roose as she appears she is team Barbrey period, and acts like a friend of the Dreadfort until it suits her needs no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Since, i'm now king with help of Lannisters, i wouldn't punish Tywin, but his man would face justice. Jaime will be dissmissed from KG. Balon was neutral during all of this, so i wouldn't bother with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, Kandrax said: Balon was neutral during all of this, so i wouldn't bother with him. Greyjoy rebellion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 On 8/3/2018 at 11:19 PM, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said: Greyjoy rebellion? Well, then he would be shorter than before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Mormont Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 You have to "forgive" them all. And Robert was skilled at making his former enemies his friends. One point you need to consider, Robert was the rebel and these men, for the most part, were loyal to the crown, now that he is the crown, Rob would want them loyal to him. The only thing I would have done differently is dismiss Jamie from the Kingsguard. Spin it as a gesture of thanks to Tywin, to get his first born and heir out from the KG vows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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