Laws That Keep Me From Drinking

[S John]

On 8/8/2018 at 3:35 PM, Lord Sidious said:

I’ve unfortunatley never been to Louisiana but would love to go to New Orleans, closest I’ve been was Miami, where drinking on sunday wasn’t much of a problem, other than that I have family in California and visit there quite often and have never known it to be an issue there either.

Is the whole no drink on sundays thing quite common in some of the Southern States?, I’ve even heard of things like dry parishes?, excuse my ignorance on this I’m genuinely interested, as,meaning no offence to these States/Parishes, it seems really backwards.

For the statewide restrictions it's not that you can't by alcohol on Sundays at all (as long as it isn't a dry county) its that you can only buy alcohol from certain stores at certain times.  Most of the time you could still go to a bar or restaurant and drink.  Restrictive laws on alcohol in the US aren't only limited to the South, even though that's where its most common.  For example, Pennsylvania has some really bizarre rules about where you can buy beer.  

Anyway, a purely dry county isn't common.  Here's a map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dry_communities_by_U.S._state

Looks like only a few states have any dry counties but most of them are in the South.  Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennessee, Kentucky, Oklahoma all seem to have several.  I'm not quite clear on what the 'mixed' yellow counties means according to this map.  I would assume that it means some communities within that county have elected to be dry but the county is not.  Not sure though, because my county is one of the 'mixed' ones and I probably live in the most booze-oriented city in Texas.  I don't know of any community in this county where you wouldn't be allowed to buy alcohol.

Surprised there's none in Utah, and also surprised that there are a couple in Florida.  

[Jen'ari]

16 hours ago, S John said:

For the statewide restrictions it's not that you can't by alcohol on Sundays at all (as long as it isn't a dry county) its that you can only buy alcohol from certain stores at certain times.  Most of the time you could still go to a bar or restaurant and drink.  Restrictive laws on alcohol in the US aren't only limited to the South, even though that's where its most common.  For example, Pennsylvania has some really bizarre rules about where you can buy beer.  

Anyway, a purely dry county isn't common.  Here's a map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dry_communities_by_U.S._state

Looks like only a few states have any dry counties but most of them are in the South.  Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennessee, Kentucky, Oklahoma all seem to have several.  I'm not quite clear on what the 'mixed' yellow counties means according to this map.  I would assume that it means some communities within that county have elected to be dry but the county is not.  Not sure though, because my county is one of the 'mixed' ones and I probably live in the most booze-oriented city in Texas.  I don't know of any community in this county where you wouldn't be allowed to buy alcohol.

Surprised there's none in Utah, and also surprised that there are a couple in Florida.  

Thanks for shedding some light on it, to be honest some restrictions on hours sold isn’t uncommon here in the U.K. either, usually it’s up to 11 PM in stores but some are able to sell alcohol 24 hours a day, and bars/clubs/pubs have varying licensing hours, some shut at 11,12 up to 3 or 4 am.

[Jo498]

These rules are so odd for most people from Europe. In Germany almost all stores are closed on Sunday (and after ca. 8-10 pm on weekdays). But the ones that are allowed to be open (like in gas stations or small newsagent's etc.)  all sell alcohol.

It shows that the US is an odd mix of puritanism and market worship. In a christian country one does not work on Sunday (that's one of the commandments after all), but has drinks either in a pub or with booze bought before on a working day. In the US one apparently should work on Sunday (at least the people in shops and stores) but not drink!

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Just so we are all clear, in NY, a state of iniquity if there ever was one, while they have revised the laws so that you can buy booze on weekends, except for beer, YOU HAVE TO GO TO ANOTHER STORE.  That's right. Wine (and liquor) is not sold in supermarkets in NY.  This is why there is a "wine shop" just about every block in the city.  Similarly, most villages have at least 1 and sometimes 2 wine stores.  (Also, stores don't generally open until 11, but I think that is less blue law and more hangover driven).

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Are these laws possible because some states don’t bar the establishment of a state sponsored religion? Because it’s always been my understanding that the motivation for these types of laws was religion.

[Larry of the Lawn]

1 hour ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Just so we are all clear, in NY, a state of iniquity if there ever was one, while they have revised the laws so that you can buy booze on weekends, except for beer, YOU HAVE TO GO TO ANOTHER STORE.  That's right. Wine (and liquor) is not sold in supermarkets in NY.  This is why there is a "wine shop" just about every block in the city.  Similarly, most villages have at least 1 and sometimes 2 wine stores.  (Also, stores don't generally open until 11, but I think that is less blue law and more hangover driven).

Yeah I don't understand the NY beer vs liquor/wine separation   I hate having to make separate two for beer and wine.  Although the wine shop near me has this giant resident cat named Brandywine that resembles a larger Grumpy Cat so at least there's that.

[Larry of the Lawn]

52 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Are these laws possible because some states don’t bar the establishment of a state sponsored religion? Because it’s always been my understanding that the motivation for these types of laws was religion.

I doubt they've ever been challenged on religious grounds, but even if they have, there are other reasons that people might resist changing the law.   Usually the shops (if they don't sell other things on Sundays) generally don't support allowing Sunday sales because it increases their labor costs without really expanding sales.  Not sure how you could prove that there's some kind of religion being discriminated against.

There are religion inspired laws that are a lot more serious than alcohol sales that have been the subject of much more advocacy to change and yet were extremely resilient.  I mean reproductive rights are still under the yolk of religion despite Roe v Wade and over a century of trying to shake off the patriarchy.

[Leofric]

When I was was growing up in Massachusetts, you had to go the package store to buy beer, wine, and hard alcohol, it wasn't sold in grocery stores or convenience stores, and the package stores were all closed on Sundays.   I think they've relaxed it some since, with beer and wine available in some grocery stores, but not sure to what extent as I haven't lived there for 20 plus years. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

I doubt they've ever been challenged on religious grounds, but even if they have, there are other reasons that people might resist changing the law.   Usually the shops (if they don't sell other things on Sundays) generally don't support allowing Sunday sales because it increases their labor costs without really expanding sales.  Not sure how you could prove that there's some kind of religion being discriminated against.

I was surprised to learn this, but you're correct. The laws were changed recently here in MN and I asked a few small business owners and they hate it. They're worried over time it will give the big chains an advantage because they can better handle to knew costs of doing business. 

And I don't think you need to prove that there's discrimination going on, just that the main motivation for passing the laws were because of religion, and I think in some instances it wouldn't be that hard to prove.

Quote

There are religion inspired laws that are a lot more serious than alcohol sales that have been the subject of much more advocacy to change and yet were extremely resilient.  I mean reproductive rights are still under the yolk of religion despite Roe v Wade and over a century of trying to shake off the patriarchy.

Agreed.

[DMC]

On 8/13/2018 at 11:30 AM, Mlle. Zabzie said:

while they have revised the laws so that you can buy booze on weekends, except for beer, YOU HAVE TO GO TO ANOTHER STORE.  That's right. Wine (and liquor) is not sold in supermarkets in NY.  This is why there is a "wine shop" just about every block in the city.  Similarly, most villages have at least 1 and sometimes 2 wine stores.  (Also, stores don't generally open until 11, but I think that is less blue law and more hangover driven).

Yeah growing up in New York I was gobsmacked when I moved out of state at 18 and saw wine and liquor for sale in supermarkets.  Pennsylvania (where I live now) has a similar law to NY.

On 8/13/2018 at 12:12 PM, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Are these laws possible because some states don’t bar the establishment of a state sponsored religion? Because it’s always been my understanding that the motivation for these types of laws was religion.

While it took awhile, the establishment clause has been incorporated since the 40s, so, um, no.  That being said, there are plenty of laws - including dry counties - that are a direct result of evangelist teetotalers.  My favorite is that Moore Country, the home of Jack Daniels, is a dry county.

[Lily Valley]

San Jose is less awful about running after me to retrieve  a wineglass that I bring outside than Spokane was.  Neither is as bad as Alabama.  In Alabama, you can do what you want, but as soon as someone gets petty, they call the cops.  And the cops WILL arrest anyone not obeying the LETTER of the law.

Oh wait.  This isn't the drunk thread.  

/rant.

[A True Kaniggit]

11 hours ago, Lily Valley said:

Oh wait.  This isn't the drunk thread.  

/rant.

I mean really. How could you mix the threads up?

It's not like they both mention drinking/drunk. Or that they were both created by a liquored up penguin who has the habit of changing his thread titles.

Oh wait.