Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

History

What or who is behind aerys crazyness/madness

Recommended Posts

Who or what is behind aerys madness from the choices?

  1. Bran
  2. Maesters
  3. Twyn
  4. Unknown character
  5. Paranoia/mental illness
  6. Blackfyres
  7. Defiance of duskandale
  8. Varys

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most likely weakness of character and the pressures of running a kingdom.

Madness is an ill-defined term, but I disagree with most who think that Aerys was just flat-out insane. He doesn't seem to have broken with reality, even right to the very end -- it's just that he surrounded himself with all the wrong people (Varys, Rossart) and sent the right people from his side (Tywin, Chelstead). He had every reason to think that his high lords were conspiring against him, given the Defiance at Duskendale and the sudden marriages between his lords paramount. It also isn't that farfetched to think that he could be killed by an assassin posing as a barber or from a poisoned blade -- thus the long hair and nails. And even the wildfire plot had a purpose: to turn him into a dragon while destroying his opposing armies. This is why I think he wasn't fooled by Tywin's fake loyalty at all: he let him into the city knowing he was going to light the whole thing up, preferably with the rebel army as well, then he would simply fly away...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, History said:

Who or what is behind aerys madness from the choices?

  1. Bran
  2. Maesters
  3. Twyn
  4. Unknown character
  5. Paranoia/mental illness
  6. Blackfyres
  7. Defiance of duskandale
  8. Varys

 

 

9. Lack of dragon

10. Inbreeding

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't it pretty much spelled out for us? Targaryens seem to have a whacky gene, and the Defiance of Duskendale put him on a bad road, which Varys was able to exploit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's no secret that Targaryens can become mad. Aerys wasn't the first mad Targaryen . So the cause of his madness is probably his heritage. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, History said:

Who or what is behind aerys madness from the choices?

  1. Bran
  2. Maesters
  3. Twyn
  4. Unknown character
  5. Paranoia/mental illness
  6. Blackfyres
  7. Defiance of duskandale
  8. Varys

 

 

PTSD from the trauma of Duskendale.  That will unhinge a lot of people.  The male Targaryens had some potential for madness in their line.  Though not the female.  I doubt Bran had anything to do with it but I would not rule out Pycelle slowly poisoning Aerys with a drug that presents the symptoms of mental illness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tywin and the maesters, Pycelle in particular, were behind Duskendale. I believe Pycelle was killing all of Aerys and Rhaella's children and then gaslighting Aerys with it. If the books are finished, I'm sure this will be revealed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, bent branch said:

Tywin and the maesters, Pycelle in particular, were behind Duskendale. I believe Pycelle was killing all of Aerys and Rhaella's children and then gaslighting Aerys with it. If the books are finished, I'm sure this will be revealed.

You might be right about the maesters and Pycelle.  Do you think Martin will reveal?  He might leave the question hanging.

6 hours ago, History said:

Who or what is behind aerys madness from the choices?

  1. Bran
  2. Maesters
  3. Twyn
  4. Unknown character
  5. Paranoia/mental illness
  6. Blackfyres
  7. Defiance of duskandale
  8. Varys

 

 

7. Duskendale

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, bent branch said:

Tywin and the maesters, Pycelle in particular, were behind Duskendale. I believe Pycelle was killing all of Aerys and Rhaella's children and then gaslighting Aerys with it. If the books are finished, I'm sure this will be revealed.

What the reasoning behing pycelle and twyn actions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope not Bran but I got a bad feeling about it. Hopefully just a bad influence on an already bad situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

You might be right about the maesters and Pycelle.  Do you think Martin will reveal?  He might leave the question hanging.

7. Duskendale

When GRRM has been asked about doing something with Robert's Rebellion, he has answered that there will be no need for it since by the end of ASOIAF series all questions will be answered and all betrayals will be revealed. I'm confident Duskendale will fit in here.

2 hours ago, History said:

What the reasoning behing pycelle and twyn actions?

Pycelle made it clear that he wanted the Targaryens replaced. I don't think Tywin agreed until Aerys refused the marriage between Cersei and Rhaegar, but after that Tywin was in too. Duskendale happened less than a year after the marriage was refused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it would have to do with a combination of things; his best friend Steffon Baratheon "dying", Summerhall, Duskendale, multiple miscarriages, the multiple cuts from the throne probably gave him infections.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I seem to recall some rather pointed hints that Varys was behind at least part of the events of Duskendale. Meaning Varys was working to destabilize the Targaryen rule from the start, making a mockery of his claims to be doing it all for the good of the “children” of the realm. Clearly it is about getting his preferred lineage/candidate  onto the Iron Throne. There is no altruism involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, History said:

Who or what is behind aerys madness from the choices?

  1. Bran
  2. Maesters
  3. Twyn
  4. Unknown character
  5. Paranoia/mental illness
  6. Blackfyres
  7. Defiance of duskandale
  8. Varys

 

 

Bran couldn't influence Aerys. He wasn't born.

Maesters-they might've fed his paranoia but only due to him being able to be influenced so easily in the first place. Same goes maybe for Varys I guess?

Duskendale just made the process go faster. 

So ultimately number 5. He was mentally ill. They just called him simply "mad". Westeros doesn't bother with diagnoze. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Isn't it pretty much spelled out for us? Targaryens seem to have a whacky gene, and the Defiance of Duskendale put him on a bad road, which Varys was able to exploit. 

100% this. There may be other factors that contributed, but essentially it's whacky gene + Duskendale.

 

12 hours ago, Sire de Maletroit said:

The male Targaryens had some potential for madness in their line.  Though not the female.

I don't know about that. Rhaenyra seems to have snapped a bit once she won the Iron Throne (if not earlier). I have my concerns about Dany too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Sire de Maletroit said:

PTSD from the trauma of Duskendale.  That will unhinge a lot of people.  The male Targaryens had some potential for madness in their line.  Though not the female.  I doubt Bran had anything to do with it but I would not rule out Pycelle slowly poisoning Aerys with a drug that presents the symptoms of mental illness.

This.  The Targaryen males have had their case of madness.  Perhaps that too.  There are a lot of people IRL that has this potential but we have medication and such for that.   the modern age doesn't put people in through the kind of trauma that the Darklyns put Aerys through and the ones who get through this kind of experience on the battlefield do suffer from it.  So if Jon is the son of a Targaryen and being male (according to Ygritte), as many on this forum believes he is, the trauma from his assassination would surely push him over the edge and into the land of the loon.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Sire de Maletroit said:

PTSD from the trauma of Duskendale.  That will unhinge a lot of people.  The male Targaryens had some potential for madness in their line.  Though not the female.  I doubt Bran had anything to do with it but I would not rule out Pycelle slowly poisoning Aerys with a drug that presents the symptoms of mental illness.

It is not just the males. We have Helaena going mad after Blood and Cheese, and we have Aelora going mad after the death of her twin-brother and husband, Aelor.

There may have been others but since women do not rule it is pretty irrelevant if they want to burn people left and right or torture some peasants - they can't.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

It is not just the males. We have Helaena going mad after Blood and Cheese, and we have Aelora going mad after the death of her twin-brother and husband, Aelor.

There may have been others but since women do not rule it is pretty irrelevant if they want to burn people left and right or torture some peasants - they can't.

By my count (feel free to correct of course) we know of four Targaryen women who have had some degree of governing power:

1) Visenya - mad

2) Rhaenyra - mad

3) Alysanne - by all accounts sane

4) Daenerys - too soon to tell for sure, but has indulged in some light crucifixion

That's 3/4 or 2/4 depending on how you want to call it. Which is pretty much in line with Barristan Selmy's coin flip analogy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

By my count (feel free to correct of course) we know of four Targaryen women who have had some degree of governing power:

1) Visenya - mad

2) Rhaenyra - mad

3) Alysanne - by all accounts sane

4) Daenerys - too soon to tell for sure, but has indulged in some light crucifixion

That's 3/4 or 2/4 depending on how you want to call it. Which is pretty much in line with Barristan Selmy's coin flip analogy.

That would be Rhaenys, Visenya, Alyssa Velaryon (if you count her as a Targaryen woman), Alysanne, and Rhaenyra.

And none of them are ever referenced to have been 'mad'. Visenya was very sane, although with a stern character, and favoring her son over her sister's. Rhaenys was somewhat eccentric but never showed any true mad episodes. And Rhaenyra went through a lot of grief and made some poor choices, but there is no indication she suffered from any mental illnesses.

This brings the whole thing again to the question what a 'mad ruler' is - somebody suffering from an actual mental illness by modern standards, or merely somebody who made strange, extreme, or decisions that were difficult to understand?

In the case of Aerys II we have somebody who actually suffered from real mental issues who also made strange decisions, but that's not necessarily the case for all rulers that are called mad.

And while I listed Helaena and Aelora as 'mad' above it is difficult to say what their 'madness' was at this point. Were they just 'mad with grief' and could have recovered in time (like Rhaenyra did after Luke, or Cat after Bran) or had they really some sort of breakdown they could not overcome without proper therapy/medication (like Aerys II seems to have had with Duskendale)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×