Jump to content

What or who is behind aerys crazyness/madness


History

Recommended Posts

18 hours ago, History said:

Who or what is behind aerys madness from the choices?

  1. Bran
  2. Maesters
  3. Twyn
  4. Unknown character
  5. Paranoia/mental illness
  6. Blackfyres
  7. Defiance of duskandale
  8. Varys

 

 

9. Daenys the Dreamer. I believe her initial prophecies have locked the Targaryens into a cycle of  repeating history that last fully manifested itself in the Lightbringer Incident/Long Night. Some of her descendants went mad through foreknowledge that seems irreconcilable with current events- like Aerys II, who I believe caught glimpses of what his good friend Tywin and son would be responsible for in the future. Others perhaps only appear mad or evil as they are driven by Daenys' vision to acts that seem without reasonable precedent in order to try and bring about its ultimate fulfillment. I suspect Aegon IV might fall into this category.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

Visenya was very sane, although with a stern character, and favoring her son over her sister's.

Well I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but she was at the very least a bit of a live wire.

6 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

And Rhaenyra went through a lot of grief and made some poor choices, but there is no indication she suffered from any mental illnesses.

That I'm not certain about. I think losing her sons was her "Duskendale". Granted, we don't know if she was full blown mad, but I'd suggest she was a little unhinged by the end.

8 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

This brings the whole thing again to the question what a 'mad ruler' is - somebody suffering from an actual mental illness by modern standards, or merely somebody who made strange, extreme, or decisions that were difficult to understand?

Agreed. Also, power can turn people mad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Well I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but she was at the very least a bit of a live wire.

She is not the one doing any of the cruel stuff. That's Maegor. And the idea that she poisoned Aenys is just a theory. It is not proven (and that would her make a kinslayer and kingslayer but not mad).

Rhaenys is the one who was changeable and moody - a trait most of the mad Targaryens have. Aenys suffered from that in a way that didn't make him dangerous, Daemon has that, Aemond, too, and Aerys II most of all.

13 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

That I'm not certain about. I think losing her sons was her "Duskendale". Granted, we don't know if she was full blown mad, but I'd suggest she was a little unhinged by the end.

Actually, she seems more focused and herself back after she lost the throne than she was back on Dragonstone after the stillbirth and Luke's death. Jace's loss gave her the same kind of push Cat got after the attempt on Bran, and then - well, Tumbleton and bad advisers caused her to make some poor decisions, but she doesn't come off as mad there. Only as overly suspicious and unwilling to compromise - which are, by and far, traits one can understand in person who went through the shit she had to suffer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I seem to recall some rather pointed hints that Varys was behind at least part of the events of Duskendale. Meaning Varys was working to destabilize the Targaryen rule from the start, making a mockery of his claims to be doing it all for the good of the “children” of the realm. Clearly it is about getting his preferred lineage/candidate  onto the Iron Throne. There is no altruism involved.

Duskendale happened before Varys' time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Well I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but she was at the very least a bit of a live wire.

To me, Visenya was most likely highly authoritarian and favouring her son over what she saw as a threat to the security of the dynasty. I don't doubt she poisoned him, but less from an Aerys un-hinged way, but more an 'ends justify the means' mentality.  

In regards to the general question, in many ways it's a combination of a number of the listed factors. Aerys had a pre-disposition to mental degradation due his genetics, and suffered a number of psychological blows that allowed his erosion to take place. 

I would be very disappointed if GRRM took us down a conspiracy route beyond people, 'allowing events to happen'. The Mad King as a story has always been very gripping to me, because it reflects the fact that often historical tragedies are the result of poor luck, as opposed to being any one persons fault. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aerys wasn’t always mad right? He could of just had a mental illness such as dementia as he got older. All the Targaryens seem to have a godly perspective of themselves believing that they are dragons or that they can all do extraordinary things which combined with mental illness is the perfect catastrophe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 11:28 AM, The Sunland Lord said:

Bran couldn't influence Aerys. He wasn't born.

He influenced Hodor and he also wasn't born. Or, rather, he will if we ever get the books.

It was probably a combination of things: the Targaryen registry for madness, Duskendale, the pressure of ruling a Kingdom, and I like the idea of Pycelle and the maesters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

When was this? I genuinely don't remember, not a jerk question.

Only in the show, never in the books because that was in the seasons past the books.

In answer to the OP, it had to be Duskendale. Admit it, if you were locked up for six months without internet access you'd go bonkers too!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/6/2018 at 11:00 AM, History said:

Who or what is behind aerys madness from the choices?

  1. Bran
  2. Maesters
  3. Twyn
  4. Unknown character
  5. Paranoia/mental illness
  6. Blackfyres
  7. Defiance of duskandale
  8. Varys

 

 

5. Paranoia/mental illness

      I. Inherited vasovagal reflex reaction 

Apparently some folks have died from phobia of sharp objects (often needles), so it is more serious than most phobias.  Wikipedia has some interesting bits about heredity that caught my attention.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_of_needles 

"Although most specific phobias stem from the individuals themselves, the most common type of needle phobia, affecting 50% of those afflicted, is an inherited vasovagal reflex reaction. Approximately 80% of people with a fear of needles report that a relative within the first degree exhibits the same disorder."

"The physiological changes associated with this type of phobia also include feeling faint, sweating, nausea, pallor, tinnitus, panic attacks, and initially high blood pressure and heart rate followed by a plunge in both at the moment of injection."            - Wikipedia 

I think Duskendale PTSD and other issues were also present, as this kind of paranoia is often comorbid with other psychological ailments.   Perhaps the condition would help to explain his father's weirdness and sudden death, too. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/7/2018 at 4:25 PM, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

I don't know about that. Rhaenyra seems to have snapped a bit once she won the Iron Throne (if not earlier). I have my concerns about Dany too.

I believe Dany will most probably go mad,  either in actual "mental illness" or people won't agree with some of her extreme decisions and therefore call her mad for her choices,  using the history of madness in her family as proof for her being insane. 

why I think this might be the case is because Aerys, while being very handsome and likable in his youth ended up being not really that likable in the end. Dany is by all means very beautiful and powerful,  and very desired (like in a non sexual way,  like "mother") . I feel as if George might be trying to show us that the Iron throne can change a person and completely screw them up. And while I might be wrong,  there's still Dany's messed up genes to think about. That's about at least four hundred years of interbred DNA(and that's after assuming they didn't interbreed earlier)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/10/2018 at 3:25 AM, Chisa said:

I believe Dany will most probably go mad,  either in actual "mental illness" or people won't agree with some of her extreme decisions and therefore call her mad for her choices,  using the history of madness in her family as proof for her being insane. 

Folks have been a lot harder on the girls for their "extreme" actions than the men. Plus, there's the desire by some to gratuitously parallel Daenerys to Cersei. But I think Dany is too well grounded, too introspective and self-judging to go that route. Look how she's constantly second-guessing herself, questioning whether that was the right decision, and if not, what she can do to fix it.

On the other hand, having witnessed and harnessed the power of Drogon, Dany could be a different woman in Book 6. We readers are all ready for blood&fire; will she be?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Danys pretty crazy. She walked into a pyre.

Viserys cried and laughed while his sword traced his nephew fetus

Stannis wanted to burn his nephew so his house can take flight

Euron drinks L.S.D

 

Kings are crazy. Was Aerys more nuts then the stated above? I doubt it. Aerys was as mad as Rheagar was a rapist. Its things people say so Roberts throne looks justified.

Was he a bad and mean king? Surel. The meannist? 

I dont see anyone being meaner then Joff. Maybe his mother

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/6/2018 at 3:00 PM, History said:

Who or what is behind aerys madness from the choices?

  1. Bran
  2. Maesters
  3. Twyn
  4. Unknown character
  5. Paranoia/mental illness
  6. Blackfyres
  7. Defiance of duskandale
  8. Varys

 

 

2 and 7

Another important cause.  Aerys didn't have a dragon to bond with.  None of the Targaryens who had dragons went mad.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, zandru said:

So Maegor the Cruel was just a tough-love kinda guy??

This where we should maybe address that Targaryens didn't all experience the same type of 'madness'. Aerys radical paranoia made him commit acts of immense cruelty, he was unable to maintain a basic level of hygiene and very poetically feared the sharp edges of his own thrown. Baelor was zealous and dedictaed to the faith to a point of extreme delusion that he self-harmed. From what we know of Maegor, he was a psychopathic and highly authoritarian, he didn't share the experience of a break down the way Aerys did. I imagine in 'Fire and Blood' there will be a continuation of the hints that Visenya's pregnancy was magically induced. If so, I feel Maegors cruelty and violence was less due to him being victim of bad mental health but an 'abomination conceived from dark magic. 

 

18 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Kings are crazy. Was Aerys more nuts then the stated above? I doubt it. Aerys was as mad as Rheagar was a rapist. Its things people say so Roberts throne looks justified.

This is really important. Targryen madness is clearly real, but is also a very easy tool to use against them. As other people have been saying, if Dany doesn't go mad (which I can't see GRRM doing even though it would be so much fun, but we already have one mad Queen in Cersei, two might be overkill) people will certainly say she has to discredit her. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, StormQueen said:

This is really important. Targryen madness is clearly real, but is also a very easy tool to use against them. As other people have been saying, if Dany doesn't go mad (which I can't see GRRM doing even though it would be so much fun, but we already have one mad Queen in Cersei, two might be overkill) people will certainly say she has to discredit her. 

Is Cersei crazy? Shes a paranoid drunk who gets excited watching the tower of hand burn, but she doesnt believe in the supernatural nor act erratically

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/7/2018 at 11:06 PM, StormQueen said:

To me, Visenya was most likely highly authoritarian and favouring her son over what she saw as a threat to the security of the dynasty. I don't doubt she poisoned him, but less from an Aerys un-hinged way, but more an 'ends justify the means' mentality.  

It is actually not *really* confirmed that she did the deed. It might be, but those are just theories that came up years after her death and she did outlive Aenys for a quite a few years. There is no tangible evidence in this regard.

And I think it is @Linda who pointed out that George set up Aenys as a king who literally 'didn't have the stomach' to do what it took. This symbolism works best if we don't take it for a fact that he was poisoned.

On 8/10/2018 at 11:25 AM, Chisa said:

I believe Dany will most probably go mad,  either in actual "mental illness" or people won't agree with some of her extreme decisions and therefore call her mad for her choices,  using the history of madness in her family as proof for her being insane. 

Dany and her father have pretty much nothing in common. Aerys wasn't particularly smart, Dany is pretty bright, Aerys is was a vain and changeable man, Dany is approachable and compassionate.

Even before Duskendale, Aerys had his 'lapses' where he blamed and cruelly punished people for things they most definitely were not responsible for - he accused Rhaella of infidelity for no reason, he tortured and killed various people he believed were responsible for the deaths of his children, etc.

Dany can be cruel, too, but crucifying some slavers after what they pulled off is not 'madness' or irrational. Even torturing people to find out the truth behind some murders isn't madness in this world.

But even Aerys - who was mad in this way - wasn't a sadistic madman prior to Duskendale. Back then he just had those lapses under extreme pressure/grief/whatever and then irrationally lashed out. He is not in the same camp as Maegor or Aerion or Daemon or even Joffrey.

Now, Dany might very well be painted as her father in propaganda and rumors, but chances are pretty much zero that she is actually going to behave like Aerys.

2 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Is Cersei crazy? Shes a paranoid drunk who gets excited watching the tower of hand burn, but she doesnt believe in the supernatural nor act erratically

Cersei's chapters show that she has severe issues with paranoia and there are hints in her chapters - the way she focuses on irrelevant details rather than trying to follow a concise line of thought or words - that indicate she is somewhat unhinged.

She is nowhere near in Aerys territory, of course, but there certainly a parallels there - which are only parallels attributed to her by others. She is no relation of Aerys' nor does she actively try to emulate him.

Aerys II tarnished a lot of things causing anyone loving wildfire and seeing a structure destroyed that she had grown to resent to see her in a very strange light.

She also suffered some sort of breakdown during her walk. We'll have to wait and see how that affected her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...