Dating - I love the way you swipe

[Rippounet]

7 hours ago, maarsen said:

Not charging your phone regularly is like forgetting to put your pants on regularly.

Depends what you do with it. If you work on a computer that has its own internet, the phone can quickly become that thing you barely use during the week.

[BigFatCoward]

12 hours ago, Rippounet said:

Depends what you do with it. If you work on a computer that has its own internet, the phone can quickly become that thing you barely use during the week.

If you aren't using it that much the battery should last, and therefore it's not something you think about that often. 

[Heartofice]

Letting your phone run out of battery when you have an important date that night smacks of either complacency or incompetence. 

Both options mean hes not the one.

[Larry of the Lawn]

More than anything, another reminder to all you lazy science workers to get out there and invent a better battery that can go years without a charge or that recharges from the sun or from body odor or something abundant like that.

[Theda Baratheon]

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Letting your phone run out of battery when you have an important date that night smacks of either complacency or incompetence. 

Both options mean hes not the one.

I really doubt I’m that important of a date LOL but it’s still a bit suspect

[maarsen]

1 hour ago, Theda Baratheon said:

I really doubt I’m that important of a date LOL but it’s still a bit suspect

What? How can he be blind to your charms?

[The guy from the Vale]

While I don't particularly like the term "friendzone" for several reasons (among them, as Meera, the way it's gendered - I have "friendzoned" at least two women, perhaps more, even if I didn't realize it at the time), you're right that dwelling on this for too long isn't going to be helpful. 

 

Anyway, the meetup yesterday went about as well as it might have gone, in spite of my anxiety beforehand. The bloke is certainly likeable enough, even if some of his mannerisms and interests were a bit too close to my own for comfort. Still, it helped me get some semblance of closure. I'm still a bit disappointed, but I guess I'm not bitter any longer. Certailny better than if I had called the whole thing off.

[Meera of Tarth]

42 minutes ago, The guy from the Vale said:

While I don't particularly like the term "friendzone" for several reasons (among them, as Meera, the way it's gendered - I have "friendzoned" at least two women, perhaps more, even if I didn't realize it at the time), you're right that dwelling on this for too long isn't going to be helpful. 

Yes, I don't like the term either for many reasons, one is that you mention. Other, well, it also trivializes a situation, sometimes up to the point of mockery, that should not be ridiculised . Moreover, it kind of implies that people are either "friends" or "bf/gf", when in fact, the basis of any good  relationship is also friendship.

And I don't like saying that I've "friendzoned" guys I cared of or that I've been "friendzoned" by others. 

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Anyway, the meetup yesterday went about as well as it might have gone, in spite of my anxiety beforehand. The bloke is certainly likeable enough, even if some of his mannerisms and interests were a bit too close to my own for comfort. Still, it helped me get some semblance of closure. I'm still a bit disappointed, but I guess I'm not bitter any longer. Certailny better than if I had called the whole thing off.

Good you could deal with it more or less well, given the circumstances. That's a good attitude.

[Meera of Tarth]

On 12/11/2018 at 5:34 PM, maarsen said:

Not charging your phone regularly is like forgetting to put your pants on regularly.

Well, sometimes phone batteries don't last as much; so-called programmed obsolescence after all.

And you can't predict how long they'll last, bc one day you might be intensive using the phone on whatsapp or music videos, and the other not. But if I realise it is about to die, I personally try to switch it off and charge it as soon as I can. Especially if I have to reply.

That has nothing to due with people's attitudes, though. I mean, it can happen, but like many of you have said here, I prefer scheduling things in advance, and if someone has to meet another person on a certain day, he/she should reply (or at least give a good excuse).

[Tyrellius]

All you wishywashy slack-asses making excuses for batteries dying need to have a word with yourselves.

[Erik of Hazelfield]

My take: Stuff like that can happen to anyone. In reality though, it happens far more often to some people than to others.  The odds that you stumbled on an orderly and respectful-to-other-people's-time person on his one bad day of the year are probably not so good compared to the other possible explanation. 

[Buckwheat]

19 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

More than anything, another reminder to all you lazy science workers to get out there and invent a better battery that can go years without a charge or that recharges from the sun or from body odor or something abundant like that.

I used to have a phone with solar cell on the back. It was really good, it lasted for like 6 years and probably still works. (I didn't use the solar charging that often, but it certainly worked, only it charged much slower than with a cord.)

/thread derail

[Heartofice]

9 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Yes, I don't like the term either for many reasons, one is that you mention. Other, well, it also trivializes a situation, sometimes up to the point of mockery, that should not be ridiculised . Moreover, it kind of implies that people are either "friends" or "bf/gf", when in fact, the basis of any good  relationship is also friendship.

Oh I agree, its not a pleasant term and its pretty juvenile, it's often used by guys to deride other men.

I would say however that the harsh reality is something a lot of people need to snap them out of their fantasy. More often than not most people don't get out of 'the zone' and its unhealthy to living on a false promise. A bit of tough love to make someone realise their folly can sometimes be justified. 

While the basis of a good relationship is friendship, you often need a good level of sexual attraction for things to happen as well. So when someone says 'oh I think of them as a brother / sister' they are basically suggesting that there is no sexual element there. Which is why it is pretty rare for things to change.
I think it is important to realise that, its certainly something I have learnt through my own mistakes. I assumed that simply because I was good friends with someone that this was all that was necessary for us to get together romantically. But it didn't work like that because I was being purposely 'un-sexual'  in order to maintain the friend vibe and not over step any lines. 

Which is why I think its always better to be upfront with your desires (in a socially calibrated way of course) rather than hide behind them and hope that events will change at some point in the future.



 

[Meera of Tarth]

3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Oh I agree, its not a pleasant term and its pretty juvenile, it's often used by guys to deride other men.

I would say however that the harsh reality is something a lot of people need to snap them out of their fantasy. More often than not most people don't get out of 'the zone' and its unhealthy to living on a false promise. A bit of tough love to make someone realise their folly can sometimes be justified. 

While the basis of a good relationship is friendship, you often need a good level of sexual attraction for things to happen as well. So when someone says 'oh I think of them as a brother / sister' they are basically suggesting that there is no sexual element there. Which is why it is pretty rare for things to change.
I think it is important to realise that, its certainly something I have learnt through my own mistakes. I assumed that simply because I was good friends with someone that this was all that was necessary for us to get together romantically. But it didn't work like that because I was being purposely 'un-sexual'  in order to maintain the friend vibe and not over step any lines. 

Which is why I think its always better to be upfront with your desires (in a socially calibrated way of course) rather than hide behind them and hope that events will change at some point in the future.



 

I agree with you up to a certain point.

I do think you need attraction but not necessarily a good level of it, that will depend on the person in particular. To me someone (even someone I liked) being quite sexual (especially towards me) more than occasionally or with the exception of some jokes aside (like in general but not towards me normally).... would be a major turn off in terms of relatuonships. To me, it would convey the message that they just want to have sex with you.

in contrast, someone who respects you, treats you as a friend, and shares romantic tension and some degree of sensual tension, but just goes for the sexual mentionings/references occasionally ( at most) and never or in general not towards you in his sentences would probably awake the contrary on me. And to me the friendship part would probably be the most important one, with some romantic tension.

 

then again, I know that this depwnds on the person.

as for the brother/sister reference. Oh well, come to think of it, I could not agree with you more. (in fact, I have been reminded of my best friend who I nornally refer to him this way actually...). However, I think this is a different thing, a whole new level actually. If someone tells you you are like his sister or if you tell him he is like a broher to you then I agree that the chances of anything more are zero or extremely close to zero, but you don't say that to your ffiends often at all. But yeah IF you say that then it is. Zero attraction and zero romantic tension there....

and yeah confronting your desires is probably themost advisable thing. But I guess apart from the obvious reasons, one might think it's too soon or it couldcompletely destroy a friendship. The latter could happen sometimes, although if you are good friends with someone that's just an irrational (yet normal) thought. It would depend again on the people though.

Those who are still no friends with someone because their brain works this way, first sex and then whatever don't even have to worry about that. However, chances are that if the other is different than you, you would even have less success than with another approach.

[Heartofice]

20 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I agree with you up to a certain point.

I do think you need attraction but not a good level of it, that will depend on the person in particular. To me someone (even someone I liked) being quite sexual (especially towards me) more than occasionally or with the exception of some jokes aside (like in general but not towards me normally).... would be a major turn off in terms of relatuonships. It would convey the message that they just want to have sex with you.

in contrast, someone who respects you, treats you as a friend, and shares romantic tension and some degree of sensual tension, but just goes for the sexual mentionings/references occasionally ( at most) and never or in general not towards you in his sentences would probably awake the contrary on me. And to me the friendship part would probably be the most important one, with some romantic tension.

 

then again, I know that this depwnds on the person.

as for the brother/sister reference. Oh well, come to think of it, I could not agree with you more. (in fact, I have been reminded of my best friend who I nornally refer to gim this way actually...). However, I think this is a different thing, a whole new level actually. If someone tells you you are like his brother or sister then I agree that the chances of anything more are zero or extremely close to zero, but you don't say that to your ffiends often at all. But yeah IF you say that then it is.

and yeah confronting your desires is probably themost advisable thing. But I guess apart from the obvious reasons, one might think it's too soon or it couldcompletely destroy a friendship. The latter could happen sometimes, although if you are good friends with someone that's just an irrational thought. It would depend again on the people though.

those who are still no friends with someone because their brain works this way, first sex and then whatever don't even have to worry about that. However, chances are that if the other is different you would even have less success.

Oh I agree, I think sexual attraction tends to 'normalise' as relationships advance and the way you view your partner is often different than when you first meet them.

Thats one of the reasons why its much easier to establish, and I prefer your term 'sexual tension' ,when you first meet someone than it is after a few years of knowing them. 

I also think men and women tend to view relationships differently, with different emphasis on sexual priorities.  A guy is far more likely to 'find himself in the zone' than visa versa. 

Mostly when it comes to unrequited love for a friend, you have to really just examine why you feel this way, is it a genuine belief that you and this other person are a great match and there is a potential relationship worth pursuing, or is it some other less easily identifiable reason. For me it was often my own avoidance of trying to find a girl who actually liked me, and turning my friend into some fictional ideal of a girlfriend, using her friendship as a pseudo-relationship and gaining the benefits without the downsides. 

By being honest with myself I realised what I was doing and moved on. But as I said, those feeling are very addictive. 

[Meera of Tarth]

3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Oh I agree, I think sexual attraction tends to 'normalise' as relationships advance and the way you view your partner is often different than when you first meet them.

Thats one of the reasons why its much easier to establish, and I prefer your term 'sexual tension' ,when you first meet someone than it is after a few years of knowing them. 

 

 

Yeah, and also about sensual tension, which in general is a type of energy that is in between the romantic and the sexual, actually. So I think talking about that subtlety instead of more sexual is a way better.

Then again, friendship and romantic tension is way more important for me.

 

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I also think men and women tend to view relationships differently, with different emphasis on sexual priorities.  A guy is far more likely to 'find himself in the zone' than visa versa. 

Mmm, probably. Well, I'm not a guy so I can't say. I don't like generalising, as for sexual priorities, there are likely differences, but it's also completely true that some guys are also more emotional, and some girls really think that the other thing is a priority (or at least this is what I've heard a few times).

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Mostly when it comes to unrequited love for a friend, you have to really just examine why you feel this way, is it a genuine belief that you and this other person are a great match and there is a potential relationship worth pursuing, or is it some other less easily identifiable reason. For me it was often my own avoidance of trying to find a girl who actually liked me, and turning my friend into some fictional ideal of a girlfriend, using her friendship as a pseudo-relationship and gaining the benefits without the downsides. 

By being honest with myself I realised what I was doing and moved on. But as I said, those feeling are very addictive. 

mmm, well. But if you like a friend, especially one that you have known for years, you just know it, and you can act on it or not, and then whatever it happens.

Why does it have to be an extraordinarily amazing match....You just think it can be a good one, bc you get along very well and you like the person, only thing if the other thinks something similar. Maybe that thought of "only if this has to be an amazing, worth pursuing match" could appear of course if there's fear of losing the friendship, and you think if it's worth taking the risk. But things can be more easygoing as well. With less pressure.

The other less identifiable reason you mention....ok, I kinda understand.  But then again, maybe I'm weird, but I just can't simply be with anyone that I have not befriended before, so if I read this sentence of "try to find to find someone that likes me" to myself, it's with the fact that he has to be a friend first, so some degree of "likelihood" even if just platonic would be present beforehand.  So I don't think there's anything wrong in liking a friend you've known before, or liking someone and then becoming his friend to continue knowing him. On the contrary. There's some people who just can't go right away "to find someone they like" without any type of connection formed. At least, well I find completely unappealing "going for a date" scheduled because both of you know each other only through a dating app since yesterday with only that goal on mind, or someone scheduling that date it for you both and you don't know each other. I find this situation too awkward, unromantic and with a lot of pressure, that actually just getting to know people without those expectations/ pre-settled goals.  (Then again, I know that many people prefer that, and it's fine, I'm just expressing my personal preferences...).

And in those other -better- circumstances you could have good first impressions or like them in some way, but there is not pressure or awkwardness behind.

But maybe I have not interpreted your words correctly, so sorry for that.

About the fictional ideas....well as long as you get the benefits without the downsides because you both have a good time together, there is nothing wrong there. You would still do those things and have a good time if there were no feelings and just friendship there. Because well, if you want something to last it more than a month there have to be things in common, so both friendship and attraction are needed. Only downside is felling bad of course, yeah.

[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Why does it have to be an extraordinarily amazing match....You just think it can be a good one, bc you get along very well and you like the person, only thing if the other thinks something similar.

I get that sense that you put such high value on friendship and such low value on sexual tension that we will probably diverge on this subject quite a bit.

The way I see it I can have an amazing friendship with a lot of people, but I have little sexual attraction for them so being in a relationship with them  isn't really something I think about

On the other hand, if I have a huge sexual attraction for someone but don't have a particularly good friendship (I might not even like them hugely) I am still quite likely to want to pursue some sort of relationship. 

'Getting on well' for me is such a general thing, I 'get on well' with most people and only really notice when I don't. I know that isn't really the same for everyone so I understand that if thats not the case then finding someone you do feel you connect with means that you attach more significance to them.

And the major difference I think is that I have never had a romantic relationship with anyone I was friends with first. I have TRIED of course, that's what we were talking about, but my original intentions were always about more than friendship, I just hid them due to lack of confidence and shyness. 

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And in those other -better- circumstances you could have good first impressions or like them in some way, but there is not pressure or awkwardness behind.

I think dating is quite often a pretty awful experience, its spending time with people you don't know for long periods of time, having often awkward conversations and being judged and rejected. Who in their right minds would like doing that? I do think its very useful however, as a way of seeing the range of options out there and learning about how 'dating' really works. You need to kiss a few frogs and all that. 

But everyone is different, some people need a level of trust and connection in order to develop sexual feelings, some people don't. 

Either way, I look back on my times being 'in love' with my friends and I feel very silly about it. It was very dishonest of me to be less than truthful of my intentions and it meant that once I'd moved on I wasn't really friends with those people any more. 

[Meera of Tarth]

8 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I get that sense that you put such high value on friendship and such low value on sexual tension that we will probably diverge on this subject quite a bit.

The way I see it I can have an amazing friendship with a lot of people, but I have little sexual attraction for them so being in a relationship with them  isn't really something I think about

 

Well,  I just think that in order to be in a relationship that is not just a fling, friendship of some sort is needed as well.

 

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On the other hand, if I have a huge sexual attraction for someone but don't have a particularly good friendship (I might not even like them hugely) I am still quite likely to want to pursue some sort of relationship. 

'Getting on well' for me is such a general thing, I 'get on well' with most people and only really notice when I don't. I know that isn't really the same for everyone so I understand that if thats not the case then finding someone you do feel you connect with means that you attach more significance to them.

Well, here we could differ, I guess. Of course I'm not talking about your best friend necessarily being your partner, or even a really good friend, or good friend....but a certain level of getting along together, having things in common, and friendship is needed to me if it has to be called a relationship. 

Some people will say their partners are their best friends, but the majority of people, I guess not. 

Yeah, I agree with what you say in this particular circumstances but I was not referring to this. It's more when you do feel people you connect more with, or that you connect well enough. Not everyone can be your "soulmate" after all, the majority of people aren't. And everyone has their own unique flaws and positive things.

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And the major difference I think is that I have never had a romantic relationship with anyone I was friends with first. I have TRIED of course, that's what we were talking about, but my original intentions were always about more than friendship, I just hid them due to lack of confidence and shyness. 

Well, that's what I was referring to when I said when you kind of like someone for their manners and their looks but to me "more than friendship" always implies friendship at least, that you have both feelings, the ones for a friend and the ones related to romanticism and attraction (and not necessarily your bets friend,you could be more friends with your best friend but that be just platonic). But a friendship has to be created somehow.

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I think dating is quite often a pretty awful experience, its spending time with people you don't know for long periods of time, having often awkward conversations and being judged and rejected. Who in their right minds would like doing that? I do think its very useful however, as a way of seeing the range of options out there and learning about how 'dating' really works. You need to kiss a few frogs and all that. 

But everyone is different, some people need a level of trust and connection in order to develop sexual feelings, some people don't. 

I guess it's useful, everyone can learn from any experience. But it's also empty and cold and unromantic for many people (on its premise....not that it always necessarily is... maybe you give it a shot and you have luck!). But if it wasn't, people would not complain of boring dates.

Yes, but also...I'd phrase it as...some other people can and do have sexual attraction without a level of trust, but actually wanting or feeling comfortable with yourself to act up on it completely  in those circumstances it's a different thing.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Had a lovely afternoon cuddling with the current interest on the sofa while watching cheesy sword and sorcery movies (she's a massive fantasy geek). She's in her mid-20s, but has never been in a relationship before, so I am taking it really slow.

[Rippounet]

On 12/13/2018 at 6:27 PM, Heartofice said:

I think dating is quite often a pretty awful experience, its spending time with people you don't know for long periods of time, having often awkward conversations and being judged and rejected. Who in their right minds would like doing that?

I think that's one of the deepest things I've read on this forum since I joined more than 4 years ago.