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larrytheimp

Dating - I love the way you swipe

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20 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I agree with you up to a certain point.

I do think you need attraction but not a good level of it, that will depend on the person in particular. To me someone (even someone I liked) being quite sexual (especially towards me) more than occasionally or with the exception of some jokes aside (like in general but not towards me normally).... would be a major turn off in terms of relatuonships. It would convey the message that they just want to have sex with you.

in contrast, someone who respects you, treats you as a friend, and shares romantic tension and some degree of sensual tension, but just goes for the sexual mentionings/references occasionally ( at most) and never or in general not towards you in his sentences would probably awake the contrary on me. And to me the friendship part would probably be the most important one, with some romantic tension.

 

then again, I know that this depwnds on the person.

as for the brother/sister reference. Oh well, come to think of it, I could not agree with you more. (in fact, I have been reminded of my best friend who I nornally refer to gim this way actually...). However, I think this is a different thing, a whole new level actually. If someone tells you you are like his brother or sister then I agree that the chances of anything more are zero or extremely close to zero, but you don't say that to your ffiends often at all. But yeah IF you say that then it is.

and yeah confronting your desires is probably themost advisable thing. But I guess apart from the obvious reasons, one might think it's too soon or it couldcompletely destroy a friendship. The latter could happen sometimes, although if you are good friends with someone that's just an irrational thought. It would depend again on the people though.

those who are still no friends with someone because their brain works this way, first sex and then whatever don't even have to worry about that. However, chances are that if the other is different you would even have less success.

Oh I agree, I think sexual attraction tends to 'normalise' as relationships advance and the way you view your partner is often different than when you first meet them.

Thats one of the reasons why its much easier to establish, and I prefer your term 'sexual tension' ,when you first meet someone than it is after a few years of knowing them. 

I also think men and women tend to view relationships differently, with different emphasis on sexual priorities.  A guy is far more likely to 'find himself in the zone' than visa versa. 

Mostly when it comes to unrequited love for a friend, you have to really just examine why you feel this way, is it a genuine belief that you and this other person are a great match and there is a potential relationship worth pursuing, or is it some other less easily identifiable reason. For me it was often my own avoidance of trying to find a girl who actually liked me, and turning my friend into some fictional ideal of a girlfriend, using her friendship as a pseudo-relationship and gaining the benefits without the downsides. 

By being honest with myself I realised what I was doing and moved on. But as I said, those feeling are very addictive. 

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3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Oh I agree, I think sexual attraction tends to 'normalise' as relationships advance and the way you view your partner is often different than when you first meet them.

Thats one of the reasons why its much easier to establish, and I prefer your term 'sexual tension' ,when you first meet someone than it is after a few years of knowing them. 

 

 

Yeah, and also about sensual tension, which in general is a type of energy that is in between the romantic and the sexual, actually. So I think talking about that subtlety instead of more sexual is a way better.

Then again, friendship and romantic tension is way more important for me.

 

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I also think men and women tend to view relationships differently, with different emphasis on sexual priorities.  A guy is far more likely to 'find himself in the zone' than visa versa. 

Mmm, probably. Well, I'm not a guy so I can't say. I don't like generalising, as for sexual priorities, there are likely differences, but it's also completely true that some guys are also more emotional, and some girls really think that the other thing is a priority (or at least this is what I've heard a few times).

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Mostly when it comes to unrequited love for a friend, you have to really just examine why you feel this way, is it a genuine belief that you and this other person are a great match and there is a potential relationship worth pursuing, or is it some other less easily identifiable reason. For me it was often my own avoidance of trying to find a girl who actually liked me, and turning my friend into some fictional ideal of a girlfriend, using her friendship as a pseudo-relationship and gaining the benefits without the downsides. 

By being honest with myself I realised what I was doing and moved on. But as I said, those feeling are very addictive. 

mmm, well. But if you like a friend, especially one that you have known for years, you just know it, and you can act on it or not, and then whatever it happens.

Why does it have to be an extraordinarily amazing match....You just think it can be a good one, bc you get along very well and you like the person, only thing if the other thinks something similar. Maybe that thought of "only if this has to be an amazing, worth pursuing match" could appear of course if there's fear of losing the friendship, and you think if it's worth taking the risk. But things can be more easygoing as well. With less pressure.

The other less identifiable reason you mention....ok, I kinda understand.  But then again, maybe I'm weird, but I just can't simply be with anyone that I have not befriended before, so if I read this sentence of "try to find to find someone that likes me" to myself, it's with the fact that he has to be a friend first, so some degree of "likelihood" even if just platonic would be present beforehand.  So I don't think there's anything wrong in liking a friend you've known before, or liking someone and then becoming his friend to continue knowing him. On the contrary. There's some people who just can't go right away "to find someone they like" without any type of connection formed. At least, well I find completely unappealing "going for a date" scheduled because both of you know each other only through a dating app since yesterday with only that goal on mind, or someone scheduling that date it for you both and you don't know each other. I find this situation too awkward, unromantic and with a lot of pressure, that actually just getting to know people without those expectations/ pre-settled goals.  (Then again, I know that many people prefer that, and it's fine, I'm just expressing my personal preferences...).

And in those other -better- circumstances you could have good first impressions or like them in some way, but there is not pressure or awkwardness behind.

But maybe I have not interpreted your words correctly, so sorry for that.

About the fictional ideas....well as long as you get the benefits without the downsides because you both have a good time together, there is nothing wrong there. You would still do those things and have a good time if there were no feelings and just friendship there. Because well, if you want something to last it more than a month there have to be things in common, so both friendship and attraction are needed. Only downside is felling bad of course, yeah.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Why does it have to be an extraordinarily amazing match....You just think it can be a good one, bc you get along very well and you like the person, only thing if the other thinks something similar.

I get that sense that you put such high value on friendship and such low value on sexual tension that we will probably diverge on this subject quite a bit.

The way I see it I can have an amazing friendship with a lot of people, but I have little sexual attraction for them so being in a relationship with them  isn't really something I think about

On the other hand, if I have a huge sexual attraction for someone but don't have a particularly good friendship (I might not even like them hugely) I am still quite likely to want to pursue some sort of relationship. 

'Getting on well' for me is such a general thing, I 'get on well' with most people and only really notice when I don't. I know that isn't really the same for everyone so I understand that if thats not the case then finding someone you do feel you connect with means that you attach more significance to them.

And the major difference I think is that I have never had a romantic relationship with anyone I was friends with first. I have TRIED of course, that's what we were talking about, but my original intentions were always about more than friendship, I just hid them due to lack of confidence and shyness. 

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And in those other -better- circumstances you could have good first impressions or like them in some way, but there is not pressure or awkwardness behind.

I think dating is quite often a pretty awful experience, its spending time with people you don't know for long periods of time, having often awkward conversations and being judged and rejected. Who in their right minds would like doing that? I do think its very useful however, as a way of seeing the range of options out there and learning about how 'dating' really works. You need to kiss a few frogs and all that. 

But everyone is different, some people need a level of trust and connection in order to develop sexual feelings, some people don't. 

Either way, I look back on my times being 'in love' with my friends and I feel very silly about it. It was very dishonest of me to be less than truthful of my intentions and it meant that once I'd moved on I wasn't really friends with those people any more. 

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8 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I get that sense that you put such high value on friendship and such low value on sexual tension that we will probably diverge on this subject quite a bit.

The way I see it I can have an amazing friendship with a lot of people, but I have little sexual attraction for them so being in a relationship with them  isn't really something I think about

 

Well,  I just think that in order to be in a relationship that is not just a fling, friendship of some sort is needed as well.

 

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On the other hand, if I have a huge sexual attraction for someone but don't have a particularly good friendship (I might not even like them hugely) I am still quite likely to want to pursue some sort of relationship. 

'Getting on well' for me is such a general thing, I 'get on well' with most people and only really notice when I don't. I know that isn't really the same for everyone so I understand that if thats not the case then finding someone you do feel you connect with means that you attach more significance to them.

Well, here we could differ, I guess. Of course I'm not talking about your best friend necessarily being your partner, or even a really good friend, or good friend....but a certain level of getting along together, having things in common, and friendship is needed to me if it has to be called a relationship. 

Some people will say their partners are their best friends, but the majority of people, I guess not. 

Yeah, I agree with what you say in this particular circumstances but I was not referring to this. It's more when you do feel people you connect more with, or that you connect well enough. Not everyone can be your "soulmate" after all, the majority of people aren't. And everyone has their own unique flaws and positive things.

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And the major difference I think is that I have never had a romantic relationship with anyone I was friends with first. I have TRIED of course, that's what we were talking about, but my original intentions were always about more than friendship, I just hid them due to lack of confidence and shyness. 

Well, that's what I was referring to when I said when you kind of like someone for their manners and their looks but to me "more than friendship" always implies friendship at least, that you have both feelings, the ones for a friend and the ones related to romanticism and attraction (and not necessarily your bets friend,you could be more friends with your best friend but that be just platonic). But a friendship has to be created somehow.

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I think dating is quite often a pretty awful experience, its spending time with people you don't know for long periods of time, having often awkward conversations and being judged and rejected. Who in their right minds would like doing that? I do think its very useful however, as a way of seeing the range of options out there and learning about how 'dating' really works. You need to kiss a few frogs and all that. 

But everyone is different, some people need a level of trust and connection in order to develop sexual feelings, some people don't. 

I guess it's useful, everyone can learn from any experience. But it's also empty and cold and unromantic for many people (on its premise....not that it always necessarily is... maybe you give it a shot and you have luck!). But if it wasn't, people would not complain of boring dates.

Yes, but also...I'd phrase it as...some other people can and do have sexual attraction without a level of trust, but actually wanting or feeling comfortable with yourself to act up on it completely  in those circumstances it's a different thing.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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Had a lovely afternoon cuddling with the current interest on the sofa while watching cheesy sword and sorcery movies (she's a massive fantasy geek). She's in her mid-20s, but has never been in a relationship before, so I am taking it really slow.

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On 12/13/2018 at 6:27 PM, Heartofice said:

I think dating is quite often a pretty awful experience, its spending time with people you don't know for long periods of time, having often awkward conversations and being judged and rejected. Who in their right minds would like doing that?

I think that's one of the deepest things I've read on this forum since I joined more than 4 years ago.

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While it's nice to see my predicament sparked an interesting discussion, I don't think your advice is very applicable in my case, @Heartofice. There, friendship simply preceded any attraction, or, for that matter, any window of socially acceptable courtship (as we were both in relationships when we got to know each other, and at least one of us always has been for as long we've known each other until September). Anyway I'm certainly closer to Meera in my dating preferences, in part because I'm not really interested in one-night-stands (those I've had were not all that much fun tbh), in part because of the passage Rippounet quoted earlier. And I've had my success with my way of doing things, too

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1 hour ago, Lily Valley said:

Too Much Girl has been texting again.  Started with things like, "C'mon, you can't stay mad at me forever."

O RLY?  Watch me.

Too Much Girl surely must have encountered a door-slam before, if she's gotten this way in the past.  Perhaps she's just repeating the pattern hoping for a different outcome. 

 

Well, I'm ending off the year same way I started it.  Confused by the same woman.  I was putting this girl behind me, after I found out she had a boyfriend, but they don't seem to have chemistry, and after all this time they don't live together -- though I am pretty sure they did years ago.  Party at her place i helped organize for our meet-up group.  A very chameleon-like person.  She gave me a chaste peck on the lips as I left, and a few months ago  she said she wanted my heart, but doesn't expect to get it.   She said her boyfriend doesn't live there, she's too independent to live with someone.  Weird thing is he said he does live there.  I'm sure none of his stuff is there, the apartment is too small to not notice.  Whatever.  I hate emotional relapses.

Crazy good party though.

Edited by SpaceChampion

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2 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Well, I'm ending off the year same way I started it.  Confused by the same woman.  I was putting this girl behind me, after I found out she had a boyfriend, but they don't seem to have chemistry, and after all this time they don't live together -- though I am pretty sure they did years ago.  Party at her place i helped organize for our meet-up group.  A very chameleon-like person.  She gave me a chaste peck on the lips as I left, and a few months ago  she said she wanted my heart, but doesn't expect to get it.   She said her boyfriend doesn't live there, she's too independent to live with someone.  Weird thing is he said he does live there.  I'm sure none of his stuff is there, the apartment is too small to not notice.  Whatever.  I hate emotional relapses.

So this is a girl you have professed interest in previously?  And she says things like "she wants your heart" and kisses you on the lips (even briefly) when you're leaving a party, even though she's in a relationship?  Man, that is messed up.  I would avoid her like a nest of vipers, but that's just me. 

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24 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

So this is a girl you have professed interest in previously?  And she says things like "she wants your heart" and kisses you on the lips (even briefly) when you're leaving a party, even though she's in a relationship?  Man, that is messed up.  I would avoid her like a nest of vipers, but that's just me. 

Yep. HUGE red flags.

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11 hours ago, Maithanet said:

So this is a girl you have professed interest in previously?  And she says things like "she wants your heart" and kisses you on the lips (even briefly) when you're leaving a party, even though she's in a relationship?  Man, that is messed up.  I would avoid her like a nest of vipers, but that's just me. 

I think the context of "want your heart" was as compared to whatever intellectual thing I said in response to her question.  She was opening up finally and said she thought I probably only do so when I can see someone reciprocate (true), which she says is very hard for her.    I think she sort of sees me as a lab experiment to see part of herself.  Of course I didn't focus on the context, just heard what I wanted to hear.  The convo was kind of abstract, starting off with some verse of a poem she had published that she wanted to give to me in the middle of the night.    I don't know wtf is going on.  I responded with a complete poem I wrote on the fly.   She said she thought we could create space for each other to write in.  But in person?  I don't know what that means either.  Maybe she's as frustrated with me as I am with her.  Communicating with her was like that episode of Next Gen "Darmok".  We seemed to make progress then, but nothing since.  The party too loud and too public for me to have a proper conversation that I've been trying to have for nearly a year now.

There is another person i was interested in beginning in the fall, her total opposite in a lot of ways, we communicate really well, so it was a relief.  But that girl is not interested, due to different cultures, and was totally surprised when I expressed interest.  Somehow missed my awkward flirting which i thought she was receptive to was more than friendship.  Shaka when the walls fell.

Edited by SpaceChampion

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4 minutes ago, The guy from the Vale said:

So, for those following my little trainwreck of a narrative, New ear's went about as well as expected - by which I mean, disastrously.

 

Well, shit.

Sorry to hear that. NYE is almost always a huge disappointment. Its not the movies.

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28 minutes ago, The guy from the Vale said:

So, for those following my little trainwreck of a narrative, New ear's went about as well as expected - by which I mean, disastrously.

 

Well, shit.

mmm. I'm sorry to hear that.

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I'd like to discuss dating and its transformation into relationships.

I've been hanging out a lot lately with Girl Who Liked My Beard. We're on the tenth date or something and have a really good time each time. She's a very kind and gentle soul and we seem to fit very well personality-wise. Stuff that used to be a struggle with my ex wife is now completely without friction. We have close to the same views on nearly everything.

But I don't - yet? - feel anything deeper. This is something I think is difficult. Should I expect to fall madly in love after two months of dating? Three? How long should you give it before you call it off? 

I really want to fall in love with this girl because she's such a great person, but I have no idea how long that will take, if it will ever happen, or how I will know. All I know now is that I'm not there yet. 

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1 minute ago, Erik of Hazelfield said:

I'd like to discuss dating and its transformation into relationships.

I've been hanging out a lot lately with Girl Who Liked My Beard. We're on the tenth date or something and have a really good time each time. She's a very kind and gentle soul and we seem to fit very well personality-wise. Stuff that used to be a struggle with my ex wife is now completely without friction. We have close to the same views on nearly everything.

But I don't - yet? - feel anything deeper. This is something I think is difficult. Should I expect to fall madly in love after two months of dating? Three? How long should you give it before you call it off? 

I really want to fall in love with this girl because she's such a great person, but I have no idea how long that will take, if it will ever happen, or how I will know. All I know now is that I'm not there yet. 

It really depends what you want in life. I'm personally of the opinion that 'falling madly in love' is really just a collection of selfish urges, mixed with horniness, some people get it and some people don't. I also am not convinced it has anything to do with whether you are going to get into a great relationship or not. I wouldn't stress if you don't get those crazy intense feeling straight away, its possible to get them for people who are totally wrong for you, those feelings aren't some magic signal, they are just hormones.

If you like the girl and feel like she is someone you really wanna spend a long time with, then go with it. If however you think that you will probably find yourself bored by her and will look elsewhere then end it. 

I'm old enough now to think that these are life choices that shouldn't be made with your balls, but with your head.

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