WHEEL OF TIME tv show: Go on,tug my braid!

[Corvinus85]

Or they could take certain words and do other logos, like "I move well for a wetlander"

[fionwe1987]

"The best way to learn to deal with a man is to learn to ride a mule."

"It's always a man's fault"

Dunno if this will make sense in a t-shirt, but I always found it funny:

"Egwene nobody teaches us how to be men, we just are" - Perrin "That is probably why you all make such a bad job of it" - Egwene 

Somehow, I have a feeling that in the current political climate, these overtly sexist statements about men will come across as even more funny. WoT truly is a fantasyland where things are nothing like our world.

[The Anti-Targ]

On 9/10/2018 at 12:34 AM, Shaun Snow said:

That might work. I had a thought that they could make the series better by not claiming Perrin as the third ta'veren, but instead casting him in a Samwise Gamgee-esque role.  Egwene would be a better choice for the third ta'veren. That would remove the pressure to have Perrin do something momentous and avoid viewers being disappointed when he fails to live up to the hype. It would also make it easier to accept all those last minute rescues of Egwene's, and the stupid decisions that all those Aes Sedai had to make to facilitate her rise to power, since they would have ackownledged that she has the same plot armour that Rand and Mat have.

And not having all Ta'veren be male would be a good thing too.

[Mladen]

6 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

Somehow, I have a feeling that in the current political climate, these overtly sexist statements about men will come across as even more funny. WoT truly is a fantasyland where things are nothing like our world.

God, I hated the series for its depiction of male/female relationship. It was too much Mars/Venus cheap philosophy for me. 

It is indeed a strange thing that such monumental piece of work doesn't have at least 10 easily quotable lines. In a way, it does speak about Jordan as a writer.

[fionwe1987]

1 hour ago, Risto said:

God, I hated the series for its depiction of male/female relationship. It was too much Mars/Venus cheap philosophy for me.

I hate it too, but it must be noted, RJ wasn't portraying it as okay to think this is how gender relations work. If you see the Forsaken, they have a gender dynamic that's nothing like this at all. They barely seem to consider gender an issue at all. It looks like the Age of Legends was very egalitarian on gender issues, and since it is portrayed as a lost utopia, one that was riven by gendered conflict in the end, you can fairly make the case that the theme of the novels is that when humanity separates by gender, or worries about gender too much, it harms itself.

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It is indeed a strange thing that such monumental piece of work doesn't have at least 10 easily quotable lines. In a way, it does speak about Jordan as a writer.

I'd hardly say that's true. Came across some more, using the collective wisdom of WoT fans:

"Its time to toss the dice"

"Trust is the sound of a grave-dog’s bark
Trust is the sound of betrayal in the dark
Trust is the sound of a soul’s last breath
Trust is the sound of death."

"The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule."

"Run when you have to, fight when you must, rest when you can."

"The grave is no bar to my call."

"At my age, if I make it up, it is still an old saying."

"A beautiful battle is one you don’t have to fight."

"Only a battle lost is sadder than a battle won."

"A woman’s flaming rights are whatever she flaming says they are."

"We rode on the winds of the rising storm,                                       We ran to the sounds of the thunder.                                               We danced among the lightning bolts,                                            and tore the world asunder"

"Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time"

“A man who trusts everyone is a fool and a man who trusts no one is a fool. We are all fools if we live long enough.” 
 

“The oak fights the wind and is broken, the willow bends when it must and survives.” 

 

[Mladen]

6 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

I hate it too, but it must be noted, RJ wasn't portraying it as okay to think this is how gender relations work.

Yes, but it is prevalent. And it is not even seen as something wrong. That said, my analysis may be shortcoming due to fact I have read WoT only once. But nonetheless, my impression was that books, in that aspect, are like some cheap philosophy books.

6 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

I'd hardly say that's true. Came across some more, using the collective wisdom of WoT fans:

Then I stand corrected. Perhaps it is translation but I never got impression that there was something quotable and the one line I found truly amazing: "Duty is heavier than a mountain; death is lighter than a feather." was apparently from a Japanese military book  

[The Last Storm]

If they omit Logain I will be disdapointed.

[Corvinus85]

I doubt they'll cut Logain, since one of the big points of the early books is what happens with men that can channel and how does the White Tower handle them. The question is whether or not we'll see Logain afterwards.

 

[fionwe1987]

5 hours ago, Risto said:

Yes, but it is prevalent. And it is not even seen as something wrong. That said, my analysis may be shortcoming due to fact I have read WoT only once. But nonetheless, my impression was that books, in that aspect, are like some cheap philosophy books.

I don't think it is shown as okay. The fall of the Age of Legends was due to gendered conflict, after all.

That said, RJ could definitely have committed more to showing how the current Mars-Venus gender dichotomy is effed up. Maybe the show can do that more.

 

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Then I stand corrected. Perhaps it is translation but I never got impression that there was something quotable and the one line I found truly amazing: "Duty is heavier than a mountain; death is lighter than a feather." was apparently from a Japanese military book  

Yeah I think it is. RJ, from all I've heard, had a very extensive and broad collection of books on military history and strategy. And a lot of Malkieri and Shienaran tradition seem very Asian influenced.

As for the quotability of the books: I'd say a LOT of the best quotes are very character specific. They'd make sense, and are hilarious, in the context of who's saying it. On their own, not so much. But that isn't universal.

[Which Tyler]

I've always felt the reverse sexism thing to be quite an interesting look at a world where females are the dominant gender; so it would be natural for the sexism to be that way around.

It was always frustratingly basic pop-psyche, and not well done; but the basic idea had some promise.

[Shaun Snow]

Agreed. It was an interesting concept that was never satisfyingly explored. The founding of the Asha'man and the Aes Sedai's reaction to them could have been fascinating. Sadly it was not.

[fionwe1987]

27 minutes ago, Shaun Snow said:

Agreed. It was an interesting concept that was never satisfyingly explored. The founding of the Asha'man and the Aes Sedai's reaction to them could have been fascinating. Sadly it was not.

Well, this was complicated, in large part, by the taint on saidin. A lot of the truly interesting interaction is going the happen in the future of this world, which we will sadly see nothing of.

[Werthead]

Huge Q&A with the showrunner today.

 

Main take-aways:

• The books will not be mapped 1:1 to the TV show seasons. This sounds like the approach taken by The Expanse (which took all of Season 1 and then 4 episodes from Season 2 to adapt Book 1, then 8 episodes of Season 2 and 5 from Season 3 to adapt Book 2 etc) and the new His Dark Materials show (which will adapt 3 books across 5 seasons).
• Episodes will be 1 hour long each.
• There'll be more than 5, but definitely less than 14, seasons in total.
• Amazon hasn't greenlit the project yet but there's been positive sounds in the last few months (which is why he's been allowed to do the Q&A).
• New Spring may be adapted as well, possibly as a special of some kind once the series is fully underway (could be a good way of keeping Moiraine and Lan's actors interested when they're not doing much in the main series).
• The TV show will be a faithful adaptation of the books, but will of course have to condense some characters, storylines. Apparently the "latter middle" section of the series may be compressed a bit more (i.e. PoD through CoT, surprising nobody). Judkins notes himself as a Lady Stoneheart fan (from Game of Thrones) and was sorry to see her cut from the TV show, but these things are sometimes necessary.
• He wants to cast Rand and the Aiel as "tall gingers" if possible.
• On LGTBQ+ representation, there'll be "pillow friends out of the wazoo."
• How channelling will be handled is still being discussed, but Judkins liked how the magic was done in Doctor Strange and Avengers: Infinity War, which may serve as a template.
• Trollocs and other Shadowspawn may be a combination of CGI and prosthetics, but he feels that prosthetics is better for both actor and viewer immersion.
• Billy Zane will not be reprising his role of Ishamael from the Red Eagle informercial.
• Judkins is aiming for the quality level of the LotR movies or GoT, definitely not Shannara.
• Brandon Sanderson, Harriet and the rest of Team Jordan will advise on the show's development, some more than others (I suspect Brandon will be busy with his own books to do a huge amount, though).
• Confirmed characters: Rand, Egwene, Cenn Buie (if less than in the book), Logain (in an expanded role), Tam, Bela, Padan Fain (who'll be less obviously a villain), Faile, Mat. His favourite Forsaken are Graendal and Moghedien, so it sounds like they'll be in as well.
• Unconfirmed characters: Aviendha, Min, Elayne. Judkins notes that the four-way relationship from the books isn't really viable for the show and will be changed. He refused to confirm if this means that some of these characters will be merged or cut. I suspect this is the most controversial take-away from the Q&A. My guess is that the characters will still be in the show and Rand may be sequential relationships with them, but won't be in a polygamous relationship with all of them at once.
• His favourite character is Egwene and his favourite scene is Dumai's Wells. His least favourite character is Faile, but promises she'll be awesome on the show. In terms of tough scenes to write, Tel'aran'rhiod is proving problematic (mainly as they won't know how it's going to be depicted until the vfx department comes on board).
• There'll be less braid-tugging and dress-smoothing than in the books. There will be one braid-tug in the first episode though.
• No decision yet on filming locations. He hopes the budget will be large enough so they can visit the most appropriate locations around the world.

[Corvinus85]

28 minutes ago, Werthead said:

• The books will not be mapped 1:1 to the TV show seasons. This sounds like the approach taken by The Expanse (which took all of Season 1 and then 4 episodes from Season 2 to adapt Book 1, then 8 episodes of Season 2 and 5 from Season 3 to adapt Book 2 etc) and the new His Dark Materials show (which will adapt 3 books across 5 seasons).

Re-reading The Great Hunt, I was thinking that could be an approach. There are just so many setups for both storylines and the world, that each of the early books deserves a minimum of 6 episodes. There might be a good point of stopping somewhere in The Great Hunt prior to Falme for a first season.

31 minutes ago, Werthead said:

• The TV show will be a faithful adaptation of the books, ....
• He wants to cast Rand and the Aiel as "tall gingers" if possible.
• How channelling will be handled is still being discussed, but Judkins liked how the magic was done in Doctor Strange and Avengers: Infinity War, which may serve as a template.

That's good to hear. There's too much going on about how Rand looks like an Aiel, if you are trying to be as faithful as possible to the books, then Rand and the rest of the Aiel should be "cast from the same mold". I love the channeling idea. Years ago, people speculating on a WoT adaptation were worried a lot about this, but now we've seen that something like it can be done. (Btw, I've always imagined that a Travel Gateway looked similar to the hyperspace portals in the Homeworld games, but with a rotating effect when they open, which is something we see Dr. Strange do with his hands in the MCU)

36 minutes ago, Werthead said:

• In terms of tough scenes to write, Tel'aran'rhiod is proving problematic

Not surprised. I was worried about that. Also, if they decide to do Portal Stones and the scenes in Rhuidean, the latter being quite critical to the story. And there's the Finn world. 

38 minutes ago, Werthead said:

• Judkins is aiming for the quality level of the LotR movies or GoT, definitely not Shannara.
• No decision yet on filming locations. He hopes the budget will be large enough so they can visit the most appropriate locations around the world.

I hope he does get the budget. But I hope more he proves to be a great writer that can do this.

[fionwe1987]

I found that to be an encouraging Q&A. I get the sense he properly sees Egwene as the main female protagonist, which is a big relief, given how the fandom has so many who absolutely hate the character. 

With regard to Rand and his women, he clarified:

Quote

Let’s just say I’m much more interested in polyamory than polygamy. And maybe give me a little more credit than assuming I’m gonna gut that entire story and ruin everything off a one word answer?

Not sure what this means. Maybe Aviendha and Elayne are shown to be bisexual, and are romantically interested in each other AND Rand? 

[SpaceChampion]

"pillow friends"  -- now there's something guaranteed to be a on t-shirt.

[Astromech]

10 hours ago, Werthead said:

Huge Q&A with the showrunner today.

 

 

• Trollocs and other Shadowspawn may be a combination of CGI and prosthetics, but he feels that prosthetics is better for both actor and viewer immersion.
• Billy Zane will not be reprising his role of Ishamael from the Red Eagle informercial.

I'm interested in seeing how the Aelfinn and Eelfinn are depicted.

Haha, poor Billy Zane.

[Ran]

7 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

 

Not sure what this means. Maybe Aviendha and Elayne are shown to be bisexual, and are romantically interested in each other AND Rand? 

I find this rather amusing. There were those who read his first answer yesterday as a refusal to fall prey to RJ's "teenage wish fulfillment" of Rand having three wives. Now, if anything, on the face of it it sounds like it's going to be even _more_ "teenage wish fulfillment", while making some kind of fundamental changes to the sexuality of one or more of the characters in the process.

Points for honesty, at least.

 

[fionwe1987]

10 hours ago, Ran said:

I find this rather amusing. There were those who read his first answer yesterday as a refusal to fall prey to RJ's "teenage wish fulfillment" of Rand having three wives. Now, if anything, on the face of it it sounds like it's going to be even _more_ "teenage wish fulfillment", while making some kind of fundamental changes to the sexuality of one or more of the characters in the process.

Points for honesty, at least.

 

I'd really rather not have the quadrangle at all, though. If they're going to keep Min, Elayne, and Aviendha, and it looks like they plan to, I'd just rather not have all of them in a relationship with Rand. And the books do have Aviendha and Elayne spending a lot of time together and getting to know each other, so it just seems easy to pair them off.

However they do it, this is going to be one of the most controversial aspects of the show. 

[Ran]

13 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

I'd really rather not have the quadrangle at all, though.

Sure, but it's kind of a big part of RJ's conception of the story, one of the earliest Viewings Min pronounces. It doesn't strike me as something that should be tinkered with, because (as I've said elsewhere) once a writer is encouraged to change some fundamental feature of the tone or themes or broad plan of a story, they're liable to change more, and you may find yourself quite displeased. If they try to stick to the plan within the timeframe and budget they have to work with, you know what you're getting -- good parts and bad parts -- and it's down to their execution that you judge them, not whether their peccadilloes are more in line with your own. 

 

Quote

If they're going to keep Min, Elayne, and Aviendha, and it looks like they plan to, I'd just rather not have all of them in a relationship with Rand. And the books do have Aviendha and Elayne spending a lot of time together and getting to know each other, so it just seems easy to pair them off.

Yes, because women who spend a lot of of time together are definitely down to fuck...

Just seems absurd to me. The White Tower provides plenty of scope for exploring homoerotic and homosensual relationships, no need to change primary characters.