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WHEEL OF TIME tv show: Go on,tug my braid!


AncalagonTheBlack

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33 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I think the Warder bond between Rand and the three women may be good to keep, as it could help the writing in the later stages. Having characters use Travelling and show up where other characters are would make sense when Warder bonds are involved. As opposed to the BS of GoT's seasons 6-7.

Indeed. That sort of thing would be helpful and interesting.

Really, Elayne's part of it is the real sticking point. I think it can be overcome. It's mainly a pacing issue, I think.

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2 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

The real cringe is in the way all three women just accept that they need to share Rand. Its hugely unbelievable, and terribly written.

That's exactly the problem. I think that the three of them are attracted to Rand and that he is attracted to the three of them makes perfect sense. Admittedly, the relationship with Elayne does seem a bit weak since they don't spend much time together and have little chemistry together (Elayne probably has better chemistry with Mat than she does with Rand), but they're both young so I don't find them thinking they're in love with each other to be unbelievable.

What I don't feel was ever adequately explained was why they would agree to the arrangement. If it was just Aviendha and Elayne it might work slightly better since sharing husbands (or wives) is part of Aviendha's culture and they're obviously very close to each other (although I'm still don't really see Elayne being happy with the idea), but throwing in Min makes it more unlikely.  Min is fiercely independent and very stubborn about not giving in to the roles others expect of her, that's pretty much her defining character trait. Given that, why would she ever accept sharing the man she loves with two other women she doesn't even know all that well? At the same time, why would the others be happy with Min's involvement with Rand?

There's also the related issue that we're repeatedly told that Rand can't choose between the women, and maybe that might make sense at first, but over time he's far closer to Min and it seems absurd that his relationship with her wouldn't be more important to him than his infatuation with Elayne.

1 hour ago, Corvinus said:

I think the Warder bond between Rand and the three women may be good to keep, as it could help the writing in the later stages. Having characters use Travelling and show up where other characters are would make sense when Warder bonds are involved. As opposed to the BS of GoT's seasons 6-7.

That's a good point, although the warder bond doesn't require them to all be sleeping with him.

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The "notes" turned out to be a lot less detailed than people were led to believe for a long time. So, am I okay with a WoT adaptation ignoring Sanderson's books and forging their own ending based on what came before and RJ's thin notes for the wrap up? Sure. It's Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, not Brandon Sanderson's.

 

I think you're conflating the background/worldbuilding notes for the entire series - which are indeed not as detailed as people thought (90% of them is just stuff copy-pasted from the books for future reference, plus the Old Tongue dictionary and the One Power strength chart) - with the notes/outlines prepared for the final book (which became three books). The latter notes haven't been seen by anyone outside Team Jordan.

We do know that those notes contain completed scenes from throughout the three books - most of Egwene's story arc from The Gathering Storm, Moiraine's rescue in Towers of Midnight, chunks of the Last Battle, most of the epilogue, parts of the prologues from all three books - and then very detailed, intricate stuff on some story elements (Rand's confrontation with the Dark One) and very little on others. There were some major changes because RJ's notes left out so much setup his final notes didn't make much sense (hence the Last Battle moving from Caemlyn to Merrilor, Egwene's fate). It'd be virtually impossible to extricate what is Sanderson's invention and what comes from RJ without releasing all of the notes and the audio tapes and other sources, which Sanderson has argued for for some years, but Harriet has resisted.

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1 hour ago, Maltaran said:

I got the impression Min accepted it because she'd seen in her viewings ever since she met Rand that she'd have to share him. 

Yeah, which is the laziest trick in the book of the fantasy writer. Self-fulling prophesies suck, especially when used as tools to determine the love lives of the characters.

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37 minutes ago, David Selig said:

Yeah, which is the laziest trick in the book of the fantasy writer. Self-fulling prophesies suck, especially when used as tools to determine the love lives of the characters.

It could have been used to good effect in WOT, given that reincarnation and circular time are accepted as facts of life in that universe. Pre-determination and the lack of angency afforded to everyone born in it might have made for a fascinating conflict, especially with Rand supposedly being reborn to repeat the mistakes of his past self, and Ishamael being a utter nihilist. Min's never-failing visions of the future could have tied into that theme well. But once again, it was a case of great build up and lacklustre payoff.

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33 minutes ago, All Souls Bass said:

Min's visions might not adapt well from text to screen. On-screen, she'd . . . just be saying prophetic stuff once in a while? 

 

Min's visions would be easiest to visualize, I thought. She literally sees them around people. Just show that a few times, and then you don't have to repeatedly unless it's an important one.

As for the Warder bond... If the only use it'll serve is to direct you to where someone is, there's no need for it. They can use a Finder, instead, which is something you weave into metal and give the person you want to track. Moiraine did it to the three boys, and Elayne used it on a cutpurse she was using as a spy. She could just give Rand a ring with the Finder woven into it, and she can find him without needing a Warder bond.

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On 9/14/2018 at 10:27 PM, williamjm said:

That's exactly the problem. I think that the three of them are attracted to Rand and that he is attracted to the three of them makes perfect sense. 

I believe this worked because it fitted Rand's different aspects of personality. With Min, he was just simple Rand al'Thor, with Avienda he was in touch with his Aiel roots, which were a big part of his personality and with Elayne, he was a King, a Dragon, a bit of Lewis Therin. 

This layering is nice, but I still believe one woman was enough. But I suppose Jordan wanted to keep all those three aspects of Rand personality alive and these female entanglements provided a good way to do so.

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8 hours ago, Risto said:

I believe this worked because it fitted Rand's different aspects of personality. With Min, he was just simple Rand al'Thor, with Avienda he was in touch with his Aiel roots, which were a big part of his personality and with Elayne, he was a King, a Dragon, a bit of Lewis Therin. 

This layering is nice, but I still believe one woman was enough. But I suppose Jordan wanted to keep all those three aspects of Rand personality alive and these female entanglements provided a good way to do so.

Honestly, the woman who could work for all three of those aspects is Egwene, who knew him before he was anything but Rand al'Thorn, sheepherder, but also the one person in the world who can understand the weight of the responsibility of his job. And, given how deeply linked to the Aiel she becomes, she could be his link to his roots, too.

That said, I'm perfectly happy that the male and female protagonists of the series didn't end up being a couple, in WoT. Whatever they have in common, the trope of the Egwene's and Rand's of fantasy stories being a couple is overdone.

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Just now, fionwe1987 said:

Honestly, the woman who could work for all three of those aspects is Egwene, who knew him before he was anything but Rand al'Thorn, sheepherder, but also the one person in the world who can understand the weight of the responsibility of his job. And, given how deeply linked to the Aiel she becomes, she could be his link to his roots, too.

Exactly... Which is why I always found it unbelievable that these two would have so strained relationship throughout the series. 

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2 hours ago, Risto said:

Exactly... Which is why I always found it unbelievable that these two would have so strained relationship throughout the series. 

That's exactly why they have a strained relationship. They're too much alike. They also share the trait of stubbornness.

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9 hours ago, Risto said:

Exactly... Which is why I always found it unbelievable that these two would have so strained relationship throughout the series. 

No the strain is believable. Rand resents that Egwene wants to be Aes Sedai. And Egwene doesn't like the way Rand handles some things. 

I do hope the show does a better job of resolving their conflict than the books did, though. In so many ways, that's the thematic center of the story. It made sense that Moiraine, who first drove the wedge between them, would bring them together, but I think it was one of Sanderson's poorest decisions to not have them interact much after that.

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On 9/11/2018 at 2:03 PM, fionwe1987 said:

I hate it too, but it must be noted, RJ wasn't portraying it as okay to think this is how gender relations work. If you see the Forsaken, they have a gender dynamic that's nothing like this at all. They barely seem to consider gender an issue at all. It looks like the Age of Legends was very egalitarian on gender issues, and since it is portrayed as a lost utopia, one that was riven by gendered conflict in the end, you can fairly make the case that the theme of the novels is that when humanity separates by gender, or worries about gender too much, it harms itself.



 

One could argue that the gender division of the age WoT is set partly derives from the taint on Saidar, making women the sole wielders of magic thus creating a significant gender power imbalance.

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1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

One could argue that the gender division of the age WoT is set partly derives from the taint on Saidar, making women the sole wielders of magic thus creating a significant gender power imbalance.

 

47 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

That, too.

Nearly. Just a couple letters off. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Amazon Orders Adaptation Of Fantasy Drama ‘The Wheel Of Time’ To Series

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Amazon has given a series order to an adaptation of Robert Jordan’s The Wheel of Time – marking a long and curious journey to the screen for the fantasy epic.

Amazon Prime Video will launch the one-hour series in over 200 countries and territories with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D and Chuck writer Rafe Judkins, who first found fame as a contestant on Survivor, adapting. It will be produced by Sony Pictures Television and Amazon Studios.

Judkins serves as showrunner and executive producer, alongside Rick Selvage and Larry Mondragon of Red Eagle Entertainment, Ted Field and Mike Weber of Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle producer Radar Pictures and Shrek Forever After producer Darren Lemke. Robert Jordan’s widow Harriet McDougal is a consulting producer.

 

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