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U.S. Politics: Dining on Doritos with Derrida and Donald


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9 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Fred Koch, Father of Charles and David was one of the founding members.  Joe McCarthy was a Democrat. 

You're right about Koch.  You're very wrong about McCarthy.  He was a Republican throughout his political career.

3 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Wasn't there a connection between Rove and Atwater back in the day?  Something to do with the College Republicans back in the 70's or something?

Yes Atwater was somewhat of a mentor to Rove.  Rove got fired from Bush I's 1992 campaign for doing..Atwater type things.  Of note - he planted an entirely false story to journalist Robert Novak.

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2 hours ago, DMC said:

Yes.  Perhaps even more than his dumb sons, because Kushner is working in an official capacity.

Jared going to jail.  Is it wrong that I am aroused by this?

1 hour ago, Bonnot OG said:

The Green Party could very well fuck up the election in Ohio for the Dems, because yet again foolish arrogant Americans go with that worthless pile of shit of a party.

Jill Stein 2020!  Just kidding.  They are a joke.  The most credible thing they've ever done is run Nader in 2000 and they haven't done a damn thing since.

One of the very underreported elements of the 2016 election was the people who voted "none of the above".  In the normal run of things, the "clown" and "not-so-clown-but-still-very-clown" party get between 1.5-2.0 million votes combined.  In 2016, they got 6 million votes. That's 4 million additional people who couldn't pull the lever for either major party candidate and probably thought "Hillary is going to win anyway."

In the case of the green party, they only thing they have ever accomplished on a national level is to siphon off votes from the Democrats.  Libertarians are probably more likely to attract Republicans but I'm not so sure.  There is considerable overlap with Libertarians on culture war issues, the war on drugs and foreign relations.  I personally know a Democrat who voted Libertarian because he was pissed about how Bernie Sanders was treated in the primaries.  He thew his vote away and he still couldn't pull the lever for Stein. 

My personal view: if you live in a state like California or Texas, go with god.  If you live in a potential battleground state, you better bloody well decided which candidate scares you more and pull the lever for their opponent, because one of them is going to take it.  Much as I despise the two party system, that's the reality.  Anyone in Wisconsin or Michigan who casts a vote for Jill Stein in 2020 is a Fucking. Idiot.

You want to know which way the next election will go?  Figure out which way those 4 million people are going to jump.  That will decide the next presidential election.

1 hour ago, DMC said:

You're right about Koch.  You're very wrong about McCarthy.  He was a Republican throughout his political career.

Yes Atwater was somewhat of a mentor to Rove.  Rove got fired from Bush I's 1992 campaign for doing..Atwater type things.  Of note - he planted an entirely false story to journalist Robert Novak.

...It is also rumored that he was responsible for a really despicable whisper campaign against Jonh McCain in the 2000 primaries, though that was never proven.

McCarthy was a democrat until 1944 according to his Wikipedia page.  Still, I stand corrected.  Why did I think he was a right wing Democrat?

Huh, according to his wiki, he died very young.  48 years old.  Shame.

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1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Be charitable because I'm sure I'll fuck this up.

I think a lot of this relates to the end of the cold war.  For decades, you had all this energy and effort dedicated to fearing and hating "the other", in this case: the Soviet Union.  Then in a flash it was gone.  What do you do with all that energy? you find something (anything) else to attack.  Subversion in your own country? Why not?  And if it exists only in your mind, even better, because the strength of the enemy is limited only by your imagination.  Throw a few cynical pundits into the mix who see a lifetime of massive paydays by feeding into this flow, and you get to where we are now.  As I said before, my problem with conservatives isn't conservatism.  It's that so many conservatives are not tethered to reality.  The fringe has come to occupy the center.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html?utm_term=.c202ff09420c

1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition.

When one party moves this far from the mainstream, it makes it nearly impossible for the political system to deal constructively with the country’s challenges.

 

Isn't "mainstream" constantly changing according to prevailing attitudes held by the majority of people. It's not so much that one party is moving far from the mainstream, it's that one party (or ideologies that congregate mainly on one side of the political spectrum) seems to be having a substantial effect on moving the mainstream.

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19 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Jared going to jail.  Is it wrong that I am aroused by this?

What you do on your own time is your own business.  But there's certainly no guarantee Kush will go to jail, and  if I was Vegas odds-ing it I'd put at <50 percent.  Maybe less than 30 percent.

21 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

One of the very underreported elements of the 2016 election was the people who voted "none of the above".  In the normal run of things, the "clown" and "not-so-clown-but-still-very-clown" party get between 1.5-2.0 million votes combined.  In 2016, they got 6 million votes. That's 4 million additional people who couldn't pull the lever for either major party candidate and probably thought "Hillary is going to win anyway."

I wouldn't describe voting 3rd party as "none of the above," but yes, the increased third party vote had a measurable effect on the results.

23 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

You want to know which way the next election will go?  Figure out which way those 4 million people are going to jump.  That will decide the next presidential election.

This is true - but only to an extent.  A lot of the people that voted third party in a presidential cycle simple won't vote in a midterm cycle.  So this is a conversation for 2020.

25 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

...It is also rumored that he was responsible for a really despicable whisper campaign against Jonh McCain in the 2000 primaries, though that was never proven.

Um..if you're talking about Rove, his engineering of propagating the lie that McCain fathered an illegitimate black child is verifiable fact, not rumor.

28 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Huh, according to his wiki, he died very young.  48 years old.  Shame.

And Atwater died at 40.  God's been slacking off lately.

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9 minutes ago, Serious Callers Only said:

Don't forget the 'clean coal'. You can get black lung and mesothelioma at the same time while having no health insurance (one that will pay anyway).

 

Probably going to do something for the cigarette industry now, like release a report they don't cause cancer and remove the black lung photos as 'false news'.

At this point that really wouldn’t surprise me.  I feel like we’re moving backwards in time...

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Actually, you're morphing into Nazi germany. This is a 100% if this congress remains, if GOP is not marginalized by at least a generation, there will be 'proper' genocide and death camps in America (there are already children raped and put in cages). Or major civil war (army splitting in factions) or minor coup depending if the army finds its balls before being turned as demoniac as the rest.

 

For instance:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/in-america-naturalized-citizens-no-longer-have-an-assumption-of-permanence

 

'taskforce to deport naturalized citizens who 'lied''.

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So it looks like Balderson slightly beat O'Connor 50.2 to 49.3 in the last special election - the Ohio 12th.  They'll do it again in three months.

36 minutes ago, Serious Callers Only said:

Jill Stein is a documented Putin plant, as is the Green Party in this current situation sadly. A good way to vote fraud for Putin though.

Um, what?  Is this serious?  Because someone needs to notify Jill Stein.  Seems like you're blaming the Green Party, which was perhaps a fair argument in 2000, but had nothin to do with 2016.  I'm not a fan of Jill Stein, but it's also incredibly stupid to blame her for the 2016 results.  Let alone accuse her as a plant.  Sorry if this is a joke.  It must be a joke.

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11 minutes ago, DMC said:

So it looks like Balderson slightly beat O'Connor 50.2 to 49.3 in the last special election - the Ohio 12th.  They'll do it again in three months.

Um, what?  Is this serious?  Because someone needs to notify Jill Stein.  Seems like you're blaming the Green Party, which was perhaps a fair argument in 2000, but had nothin to do with 2016.  I'm not a fan of Jill Stein, but it's also incredibly stupid to blame her for the 2016 results.  Let alone accuse her as a plant.  Sorry if this is a joke.  It must be a joke.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/06/jill-stein-says-nothing-happened-at-her-dinner-with-putin/

Not only that but remember the recount money?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-happened-to-jill-steins-recount-millions

7 millions turn into 750.000$ and no recount, what about that.

Voting for the green party in this situation is completely and utterly irresponsible anyway, this is obvious.

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43 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Isn't "mainstream" constantly changing according to prevailing attitudes held by the majority of people. It's not so much that one party is moving far from the mainstream, it's that one party (or ideologies that congregate mainly on one side of the political spectrum) seems to be having a substantial effect on moving the mainstream.

Sure.  In the same way replacing the gasoline in my tank with a 50/50 nitromethane-manure mix will change the performance of my engine.  I'm going to go on a limb and say it'll be worse, but that's a value judgment.

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25 minutes ago, DMC said:

What you do on your own time is your own business.  But there's certainly no guarantee Kush will go to jail, and  if I was Vegas odds-ing it I'd put at <50 percent.  Maybe less than 30 percent.

Well, your probabilities killed my boner.

26 minutes ago, DMC said:

I wouldn't describe voting 3rd party as "none of the above," but yes, the increased third party vote had a measurable effect on the results.

For the 1.5-2.0 million, I agree.  For the 4.0 million, I think they were voting against the major parties, not in favor of the minor ones.

28 minutes ago, DMC said:

Um..if you're talking about Rove, his engineering of propagating the lie that McCain fathered an illegitimate black child is verifiable fact, not rumor.

And Atwater died at 40.  God's been slacking off lately.

The smear was definitely real.  His involvement is less certain.  But, c'mon, yeah he totally did it.

Atwater at least had his deathbed "come to Jesus" moment, so that's something.  

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1 minute ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Sure.  In the same way replacing the gasoline in my tank with a 50/50 nitromethane-manure mix will change the performance of my engine.  I'm going to go on a limb and say it'll be worse, but that's a value judgment.

"getting worse" doesn't change what's mainstream. It just means that mainstream US (and thus over time "Western") social norms are getting worse, according to the perspective of people who used to think of themselves as part of the mainstream a few years ago. Of course according to the Natsie among us, the mainstream is getting better. So even getting worse is a matter of perspective, which is where the car engine analogy falls down. 

Of course if the runaway hothouse becomes our new climate mainstream the survivors among us might be living in a post-apocalyptic hellscape for a while. So today's political worries might seem quaint by comparison within my (yet to be conceived) grandchildrens' lifetimes.

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