U.S. Politics: Dining on Doritos with Derrida and Donald

[Larry of the Lawn]

1 minute ago, Altherion said:

This is overly pessimistic. Take a look at the history of the US: there have been plenty of turbulent times and the country is still here. In addition to the Civil War (which everyone knows about), we've had, for example, a truly bizarre contested election decided by an ad hoc Electoral Commission (WTF?) and if you think law enforcement is too violent today, check out what they were up to a century ago.

With regard to the Ingraham & Co.: this is hardly unexpected. The government, corporations and universities have pursued a course of official and unofficial discrimination against white Americans (and to some extent also Asians, but the latter are a relatively small minority) for several decades now. It was only a matter of time until a significant fraction of white Americans stopped listening to the justifications for this discrimination and decided to fight back. At the moment, the pro-discrimination people still control most of the media and are demonizing the people fighting back, but the tide is slowly turning. And yes, there's a kernel of truth at the heart of the demonization: a small fraction of the people being demonized are indeed affiliated with certain unsavory ideologies and, as always, there's a small chance that this conflict grows into something that will wreck society or at least cause significant perturbations -- but it's far more likely that we'll simply come to a new equilibrium, just like the US always has (except for that one time in the 1860s).

This is a very lazy defense of white supremacists.  Whites have been discriminated against less than any other racial group, no contest.  Gross.

[Martell Spy]

2 hours ago, Rippounet said:

It's interesting that Ingraham was attacking Ocasio-Cortez. 

This makes the choice between race war and class war quite clear. 

The right is afraid of her and also sees her as a way to rile up the base.

[Martell Spy]

 

Bad Keebler, no biscuit.

Judge Threatens Jeff Sessions With Contempt, Orders Deported Mother and Daughter Returned to United States

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/jeff-sessions-threatened-with-contempt-of-court-deported-mother-and-daughter-ordered-returned-to-united-states.html?via=homepage_taps_top

 

Quote

 

A federal judge threatened Attorney General Jeff Sessions with contempt of court on Thursday after the government broke a promise not to deport a mother and daughter fleeing gang and domestic violence in El Salvador until the judge had a chance to rule on their case.

“Turn that plane around,” U.S. District Court Judge Emmet G. Sullivan reportedly told the government after learning that it had deported a pair of plaintiffs, Carmen and her daughter J.A.C.F

 

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

7 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

No it doesn't - it's just proof that voting for Jill Stein was a waste if you want a meaningful policy outcome.  Instead of the Paris Accords you got jack shit.  

No offense, this seems like a confused response.

1 minute ago, Martell Spy said:

The right is afraid of her and also sees her as a way to rile up the base.

Delicious.

 

3 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Judge Threatens Jeff Sessions With Contempt, Orders Deported Mother and Daughter Returned to United States

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/jeff-sessions-threatened-with-contempt-of-court-deported-mother-and-daughter-ordered-returned-to-united-states.html?via=homepage_taps_top

DELICIOUS!

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

Ocasio-Cortez

24 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Judge Threatens Jeff Sessions With Contempt, Orders Deported Mother and Daughter Returned to United States

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/jeff-sessions-threatened-with-contempt-of-court-deported-mother-and-daughter-ordered-returned-to-united-states.html?via=homepage_taps_top

Seriously,

• This mother-daughter pair were refugees, meaning they were not here illegally.  There is an established legal framework for people seeking asylum.  
• A judge just threatened the fucking head of the justice department with a contempt of court!  People get jail time for that!

From the court order:

Quote

 

Accordingly, it is HEREBY ORDERED that the Defendants shall return “Carmen” and her daughter to the United States FORTHWITH ; and it is FURTHER ORDERED that in the event that the Defendants do not fully comply with this Order, Defendants Attorney General Jefferson Sessions, III; Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security Kirstjen M. Nielsen; U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service Director Lee Francis Cissna; and Executive Office of Immigration Review Director James McHenry, preferably accompanied by their attorneys, shall be ORDERED to appear in Court to SHOW CAUSE why they should not be held in CONTEMPT OF COURT; and it is FURTHER ORDERED that the Defendants shall file a status report on the docket in this case by no later than 5:00 pm August 10, 2018, informing the Court of the Defendants’ compliance with this Order.

SO ORDERED.

 

 

[The Anti-Targ]

25 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

This is defeatist.  Go the green party's website and read their platform.  It doesn't read like a group devising ways to resurrect the corpse of humanity after the apocalypse.

 

Or the Greens are deluded.

I'm pretty much convinced that there are not enough people in the world willing to take the necessary action to avert a global catastrophe. So the only way we get fundamental systemic change is via global catastrophe.

Good people should keep trying to live according to sound environmental and social principles, because it's the right thing to do. But it's just not going to be enough.

[Jace, Extat]

25 minutes ago, Altherion said:

This is overly pessimistic. Take a look at the history of the US: there have been plenty of turbulent times and the country is still here. In addition to the Civil War (which everyone knows about), we've had, for example, a truly bizarre contested election decided by an ad hoc Electoral Commission (WTF?) and if you think law enforcement is too violent today, check out what they were up to a century ago.

 .

My comments are regarding massive environmental disasters on the scale not seen for at least 1500 years. Constant supercells, drought, famine. These things aren't going to happen, they are happening. 

But, you're right-adjacent. Like I alluded to, right place and right time life isn't going to change enough to be hoarding cans of Dinty Moore in your fallout bunker. And it just so happens that the U.S. is pretty goddamn well situated to absorb the coming ravages. Same reason I don't get worked up by the threat of nuclear war when it comes to personal safety. We have a massive, empty, and diverse landmass. We will survive. If 100 million Americans starved to death tomorrow, the other 250 million can pack up and move inland. Life wouldn't even be significantly different.

That's the kind of peace nihilism brings you, once you divorce anxiety at the deaths of billions and potentially yourself from the equation humanity's future is pretty secure.

[Martell Spy]

26 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Ocasio-Cortez

Seriously,

• This mother-daughter pair were refugees, meaning they were not here illegally.  There is an established legal framework for people seeking asylum.  
• A judge just threatened the fucking head of the justice department with a contempt of court!  People get jail time for that!

From the court order:

 

Yeah it also means Sessions probably violated international law. What a sad excuse for a human.

[The Anti-Targ]

19 minutes ago, Triskjavikson said:

AOCs line about "why is it that we have plenty of money for endless war but not for healthcare and education" is awesome, devastating, and unanswerable.  Why do the Dems sucks so much at coming up with messaging like this?  They need to find a handful of bombs like this and make those the talking points and just go to town.  

Because freedom^(TM), obviously.

[Martell Spy]

21 minutes ago, Triskjavikson said:

AOCs line about "why is it that we have plenty of money for endless war but not for healthcare and education" is awesome, devastating, and unanswerable.  Why do the Dems sucks so much at coming up with messaging like this?  They need to find a handful of bombs like this and make those the talking points and just go to town.  

Centrist Dems, basically. I would know because I was one of them. It seemed like the smart play at the time, as we were in a conservative era.

Then Nazis came and said look at those Democrats, they are a bunch corporate whores. Except, the Republicans of every decade and era have been constantly feasting on workers.

 

[The Anti-Targ]

Just now, Triskjavikson said:

I'm not sure I follow.  Because Dems are just basically Republicans?  

Sarcasm fail, I suppose.

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Or the Greens are deluded.

I'm pretty much convinced that there are not enough people in the world willing to take the necessary action to avert a global catastrophe. So the only way we get fundamental systemic change is via global catastrophe.

Good people should keep trying to live according to sound environmental and social principles, because it's the right thing to do. But it's just not going to be enough.

So again, why are they still around?

Let's say you're right.  There might be some utility in not handing the levers of power to the most insane, idiotic and reactionary elements of society going in to the apocalypse, call me crazy.   Even if you don't think they've been a factor until now, I see no plausible scenario where the Green party makes gains without splitting the vote with the Democrats.  This would be a disaster because it all but guarantees a near term Republican government monopoly at exactly the time where they are the most unhinged and can do the most damage.

The Green Party has some good ideas I think.  I probably agree with their platform more than not.  But I have zero confidence that the Green party is even remotely equipped to deal with the scenario you're talking about.

If environmentally conscious progressives want to really effect change, support and nurture a movement within the two party system.  Trying to attack it from outside has never worked. And be prepared to fight once you are in the game.  That means elections are the beginning of the process, not the end.

And if some of these people are content to sit on the sidelines and say "Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all fucked up, man." Let them have it.  

[Altherion]

1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

A judge just threatened the fucking head of the justice department with a contempt of court!

I'm pretty sure this is empty posturing. The point is moot because the people in question have been returned to the us, but if the judge decided to follow through with that, who is going to enforce that order?

1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

My comments are regarding massive environmental disasters on the scale not seen for at least 1500 years. Constant supercells, drought, famine. These things aren't going to happen, they are happening. 

Drought and famine have been the constant companions of humanity since at least the beginning of recorded history and almost certainly for much, much longer than that. Adjusted for technology, the world is actually a relatively safe place today.

1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Evacuating a significant chunk of the human race to Mars is just a fucking dumb idea.  As others have pointed out, even if the technical and economic blocks are removed, It would still be easier and more productive to terraform a post apocalyptic Earth than Mars.  You would save a lot more people and it would require a lot less Rocket fuel as well.

The point is not to evacuate people to Mars; it's to have a technological, informational and industrial base on Mars that is independent of Earth. Obviously, this is not happening anytime soon -- even in Musk's most optimistic scenario, Mars will be dependent on Earth for at least half a century -- but if we don't go while we can, there's a chance that we'll never go at all. Also, there is significant technological overlap between technology useful on Mars and environmentally friendly technology (remember, Mars has no fossil fuels).

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Altherion said:

Drought and famine have been the constant companions of humanity since at least the beginning of recorded history and almost certainly for much, much longer than that. Adjusted for technology, the world is actually a relatively safe place today.

Except drought and famine are typically regional affairs. A world where the global food supply is being squeezed is something we have no experience of. 

1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

Centrist Dems, basically. I would know because I was one of them. It seemed like the smart play at the time, as we were in a conservative era.

Then Nazis came and said look at those Democrats, they are a bunch corporate whores. Except, the Republicans of every decade and era have been constantly feasting on workers.

 

If making common cause with a few corporate whores means kicking the fascists to the curb , count me in.  Unapologetically.  If Hillary Clinton getting into the White House means Trumpism dies in its crib, I'd kiss her fucking feet. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Altherion said:

The point is not to evacuate people to Mars; it's to have a technological, informational and industrial base on Mars that is independent of Earth. Obviously, this is not happening anytime soon -- even in Musk's most optimistic scenario, Mars will be dependent on Earth for at least half a century -- but if we don't go while we can, there's a chance that we'll never go at all. Also, there is significant technological overlap between technology useful on Mars and environmentally friendly technology (remember, Mars has no fossil fuels).

An industrial base on Mars? Why?

Don't get me wrong, I think a base on Mars would be cool as hell.  It might even be scientifically relevant, but I think its utility as novel means of solving terrestrial environmental problems is limited.

[lokisnow]

3 hours ago, Triskjavikson said:

But centrism aside, that line is so fucking pointed.  It's not centrist to say that we must spend out the ying-yang for endless war but cannot afford increases for healthcare and education.  I think that some version if this should be repeated ad nauseum and ad infinitum.  

Yes but the experts who advise the dems would tell her not to do that simple direct message because it’s complicated her state and district has a lot of veterans and industry dependent on steady paychecks from endless war and,  “we can’t imply that they don’t deserve their paychecks from endless war. We are just opening ourselves to a gotcha attack or claims that we’re anti troops. So we should scrap this message and acknowledge the complexity of the issue and reccomend it for further study.”

so in the process of being vetted by experts and hand wringing policy wonks her message is transformed from simple and effective into either “support our troops!” Or “I acknowledge the complex needs of the community I represent and the many wonderful workers and their families  at our weapons factories and our troops overseas and I don’t want to defund these valued members of our community but I think of we can find a way to fund them we can also find a way to fund our schools and healthcare too.” 

Fear of a gotcha “yer gonna close our weapons factory and put us all out of work!” Is why democrats don’t message on this shit.

 Democrats got fucking killed in the polls for nearly thirty years now because they were in charge during the post Cold War de militarification drawdown in spending and a lot of now republicans will hate dems forever for implementing that and robbing their communities of their endless war paychecks.

[DMC]

6 hours ago, Altherion said:

I'm pretty sure this is empty posturing. The point is moot because the people in question have been returned to the us, but if the judge decided to follow through with that, who is going to enforce that order?

Well, the Marshals Service would be the answer.  Anyway, it's not "empty posturing" - judges frequently use contempt threats to ensure compliance and it usually works without them having to do anything.  Granted, they're usually not threatening a significant percentage of the cabinet, but those are the days we live in.

7 hours ago, Triskjavikson said:

AOCs line about "why is it that we have plenty of money for endless war but not for healthcare and education" is awesome, devastating, and unanswerable.  Why do the Dems sucks so much at coming up with messaging like this?  They need to find a handful of bombs like this and make those the talking points and just go to town. 

I really don't find that line new at all.  Hell, Filkins published the Forever War a decade ago.

[SweetPea]

5 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

An industrial base on Mars? Why?

Don't get me wrong, I think a base on Mars would be cool as hell.  It might even be scientifically relevant, but I think its utility as novel means of solving terrestrial environmental problems is limited.

That's not the goal of a base on Mars. The goal is to make the future of humanity safer. Big extinction events have happened in the past, and we cannot assume that another one won't happen that will wipe out humanity. If that happens, it would be very fortunate if humanity has already estabilished at least one self-sustaining colony on another planet. The next step is another solar system.

Backing up your important data on a secondary hard-drive will greatly decrease the chances of it being lost, but it won't help you if your house burns down. Unless you keep it somewhere else. In the case of humanity, that would be on another planet.

A base on Mars would not provide a safer future for 99.999% of the humans on Earth, but it would provide a much safer future for humanity. That is Elon Musk's goal.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Unsurprisingly, Trump’s tiny Twitter fingers are attacking NFL players again. Honestly they should just go back to keeping the players in the locker room until the anthem is over. I know this nine year old tradition is so sacred, but it needs to be put to an end.@pony queen

[Ice Queen]

10 hours ago, Altherion said:

The point is not to evacuate people to Mars; it's to have a technological, informational and industrial base on Mars that is independent of Earth. Obviously, this is not happening anytime soon -- even in Musk's most optimistic scenario, Mars will be dependent on Earth for at least half a century -- but if we don't go while we can, there's a chance that we'll never go at all. Also, there is significant technological overlap between technology useful on Mars and environmentally friendly technology (remember, Mars has no fossil fuels).

What does "environmentally friendly" on Mars even mean? The only way to be environmentally friendly there is to leave it alone. Mars isn't remotely like Earth. It may have been at one time, but it isn't now. Before we do anything, we have to ascertain that there is no life there, otherwise the consequences would be disastrous for any existing ecosystem. How environmentally friendly is that? We'll be doing the same thing to Mars that we're doing to Earth.

That being said, it will be virtually impossible to terraform Mars for long time scales. It simply isn't big enough to hold on to a nitrogen/oxygen atmosphere, especially in the absence of a magnetic field. There also isn't enough CO2 to work with. However, even if we did manage it, Mars is much further from the sun than Earth--it will still be much, much colder than Earth. 

About being independent from Earth. Yeah, that could cause some problems down the road. Earth simply won't allow it. Ask Kim Stanley Robinson, who wrote one of the most realistic scenarios about this I've ever read.