Kalbear Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 45 minutes ago, SweetPea said: You're right, but that's not relevant, the point is that there are a myriad of reasons one could have for supporting Trump. Denying that and blaming everything on racism is such an extremely oversimplified view that I don't even understand why I have to point it out. Mostly because you've given scant evidence to the contrary, whereas there are plenty of studies to indicate that this was by far the biggest issue to people - and continues to be. 45 minutes ago, SweetPea said: That every person who supports Trump does so because they are racists, who fear that whites are being outnumbered and trusting that Trump will fix that. Nah. They're either that or they're okay with going along with that, and have rationalized that 'no, he doesn't MEAN what he said'. Like the marine who voted for Trump and had his wife deported; he never thought that she would be one of the 'bad ones' he mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 If you support Trump, you own his virulent racism, the central pillar of his campaign and presidency, you own child internment camps....this shit was a feature not a bug. The electorate needs to be held responsible when they are a party to atrocities.”I just didn’t care about the bad stuff, if I got some good” is not a good defense. “I don’t agree with everything he says about the Jews, but he sure talks pretty about Germany. #notanazijustsupportnazis” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 If you don't want to be called a racist, don't vote for one and continue to support one that continues to show he is one. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Especially at this point. People who voted for Trump in 2016 might have been vaguely excused by thinking that this was all BS and he'd be normal, or reasonable, or something new. But now? We've got 2 years of Trump being Trump, and if you continue to support him now despite that, well, that's on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 As an example, @SweetPea, since you're fond of polls: a poll shows that 83% of Republicans approve of the way Trump handles racial issues. This essentially means 83% of Republicans are racists. But yeah, we don't talk enough about that 1 in 6 that still votes for him but doesn't approve of him. Riiight. (note also that 17% is also about the number of minorities who are Republican) https://twitter.com/FaceTheNation/status/1028695045073977344 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Especially at this point. People who voted for Trump in 2016 might have been vaguely excused by thinking that this was all BS and he'd be normal, or reasonable, or something new. But now? We've got 2 years of Trump being Trump, and if you continue to support him now despite that, well, that's on you. Right. It reminds me of something a friend said in college, "I can forgive those with Bush '00 bumper stickers, but the people with Bush '04 stickers can **** off." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, Kalbear said: As an example, @SweetPea, since you're fond of polls: a poll shows that 83% of Republicans approve of the way Trump handles racial issues. This essentially means 83% of Republicans are racists. But yeah, we don't talk enough about that 1 in 6 that still votes for him but doesn't approve of him. Riiight. (note also that 17% is also about the number of minorities who are Republican) https://twitter.com/FaceTheNation/status/1028695045073977344 You could give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're just Trump worshipers who're daft as fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetPea Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 16 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said: A prominent Fox News host literally just said something akin to this, albeit not about all Trump supporters. Furthermore, what do you make of conservatives regularly saying “take our country back” and “America doesn’t look like America anymore?” Is every Trump supporter a racist? No. Is every Trump supporter backing a racist, or at the very least someone willing to use racism to further their agenda? Yes, and there’s no way to deny that at this point. Fighting at the semantics level shows you’ve got nothing left to stand on. Oh no, you can't just claim something ridiculous and then back down on it by saying I'm arguing semantics. Not how it works. As for “take our country back” and “America doesn’t look like America anymore”, phrases like that have been around for ages, even in ethnically homogenous countries, and they could refer to anything. If you can't see it in any other context than race, that's your bias showing. ("They will not replace us" on the other hand, is clearly about race) 12 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: Honest question, why do you folks argue or respond to this guy at all? He's got a troll for an avatar for fucks sake and he doesn't even live in the goddamn U.S. My avatar is Ebu Gogo, it's not a troll. 18 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Especially at this point. People who voted for Trump in 2016 might have been vaguely excused by thinking that this was all BS and he'd be normal, or reasonable, or something new. But now? We've got 2 years of Trump being Trump, and if you continue to support him now despite that, well, that's on you. This is a good point, by the way, and it will be interesting how it affects the next election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squab Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 14 hours ago, OldGimletEye said: Here is a question. Do Nazis and people who preach ethnic cleansing have a legitimate political opinion? Should their views even be up for debate? Nazis and ethnic cleansing is abhorrent and should be fought at every opportunity. Luckily we have our betters to decide what ideas we can and can't hear, thank you overlords. And I know that censorship will make these ideas go away and it wont spill over into other ideas or thoughts or be used as a tool to oppress. Given that we are talking about the public sphere, how do we censor what is said over the kitchen table? or even what people think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 49 minutes ago, SweetPea said: Oh no, you can't just claim something ridiculous and then back down on it by saying I'm arguing semantics. Not how it works. That's not what happened nor have I backed down from any argument I've made, at least not with you. This is basically how the last few pages have gone: Several Posters: Trump supporters are racists. You: Prove they are all racists. SPs: Well most of them are. You: See. Bear of Kalington: Statistically speaking we can guess roughly 87% of Trump supporters express some degree of racism. Now, IDK if Kal's numbers are entirely accurate, but the point is that Trump supporters overwhelmingly express racist and bigoted views and those that don't are still tolerating them as a means to an end. Your argument that not all Trump supporters are racists is, yes, a semantics game designed to shift the conversation away from the fact that all Trump supporters are still OK with the racist and bigoted views he expresses and fosters with his base. Quote As for “take our country back” and “America doesn’t look like America anymore”, phrases like that have been around for ages, even in ethnically homogenous countries, and they could refer to anything. If you can't see it in any other context than race, that's your bias showing. ("They will not replace us" on the other hand, is clearly about race) Sure they've existed before, but they became prevalent in America after the first Black president was elected. They were often shouted along side images displaying mock lynchings of Obama. This. Isn't. Hard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said: You could give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're just Trump worshipers who're daft as fuck. http://thehill.com/homenews/media/401515-presidential-historian-there-are-an-extraordinary-number-of-people-who-will Nah, they're all bigots and they are a cult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 2 hours ago, SweetPea said: That every person who supports Trump does so because they are racists, who fear that whites are being outnumbered and trusting that Trump will fix that. The fact that this is the counterargument you're going with, the example of a conspiracy theory like opinion, that is at best a hyperbolic carciature of any opinion stated here, is pretty telling. I'd be interested to see if @ThinkerX has an answer to the question I asked imntheoost you quoted. Haven't seen any of the posters here conducting vigilante assaults on pizza joints expecting to bust up pedophile rings operating under the grace of the opposing party . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Just follow the law and let the cops do their jobs even if they are white supremacists or fucking white supremacists and dating them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ned Stark Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Bonnot OG said: Nah, they're all bigots and they are a cult. Nice, half of the country are bigots and a cult. By your definition, you’re half right; by your definition both sides are bigots. Or you need to look up the definition of bigotry; actually a lot of you do, you can’t just change the meaning of a word to suit your purpose and have it stick. Just like you can’t accuse half the country of racism and expect people to take you seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 That would mean the entire country voted in the last election. We're only accusing like, 1/4th of the country of being racists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 30 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: That would mean the entire country voted in the last election. We're only accusing like, 1/4th of the country of being racists. Sounds legit. Say, white Europeans who overstay their visa's, could we get the stats on how many of them are being rounded up at their residences and places of business? I've heard of one or two but it would be nice to see it in terms relative to the Latinos who are being terrorized. #shitholecountries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Just now, Triskjavikson said: That's a good point, but it's not like he wouldn't make the same "you're accusing 1/4 of the country of being bigots, and that could never be possible" argument. True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 38 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: That would mean the entire country voted in the last election. We're only accusing like, 1/4th of the country of being racists. No. Think about how polls work: they ask on the order of 1000 people, extrapolate the results to of order 100 million people and usually get it right to within a few percent. Here you have effectively a poll which asks of order 100 million people and extrapolates to around 200 million. There are a few systematic effects one must consider (e.g. the fraction of young people voting is typically lower than that of old people), but many of these work in opposite directions and it would be very, very surprising if there is a large overall deviation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Yeah I don't know what the hell polls have to do with the 2016 election, but sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, King Ned Stark said: Nice, half of the country are bigots and a cult. By your definition, you’re half right; by your definition both sides are bigots. Or you need to look up the definition of bigotry; actually a lot of you do, you can’t just change the meaning of a word to suit your purpose and have it stick. Just like you can’t accuse half the country of racism and expect people to take you seriously. Doesn't sound that crazy to me. Tell me I'm wrong. From 2015: https://www.rollcall.com/politics/poll-two-thirds-trump-supporters-think-obama-muslim Quote Two-thirds of voters with a favorable opinion of Donald Trump believe President Barack Obama is a Muslim, and a quarter of them believe that Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia was murdered, a poll released Tuesday shows. Never forget that the current president of the USA was an outspoken birther. When that didn't work for him he tried to make up some bullshit about Obama's college entrance or some such. also, http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/10/darwin-day/ Quote Only a minority of Americans fully accept evolution through natural selection.Roughly six-in-ten U.S. adults (62%) say humans have evolved over time, according to data from Pew Research Center’s Religious Landscape Study. But only a little more than half of them (33% of all Americans) express the belief that humans and other living things evolved solely due to natural processes. A quarter of U.S. adults (25%) say evolution was guided by a supreme being. The same survey found that 34% of Americans reject evolution entirely, saying humans and other living things have existed in their present form since the http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2010/07/14/jesus-christs-return-to-earth/ Quote Roughly as many Americans say Jesus Christ will return to earth in the next 40 years (41%) as say he won’t make an appearance by 2050. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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