U.S. Politics: Dining on Doritos with Derrida and Donald

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

Fuck yeah.

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/08/washington-dc-restaurants-bars-not-welcome-unite-right-rally-attendees-free-popcorn-except-nazis/

 

[Altherion]

3 hours ago, Rippounet said:

If you think not interviewing neonazis is 1984-esque you've got a reeeal problem pal. 

A slight correction: it's labeling a diverse range of people with widely differing opinions as neo-Nazis and refusing to interview all of them on the basis of this label that's 1984-esque. The number of actual neo-Nazis in the US is tiny -- they're a small fraction of the alt-right who are in turn a small fraction of Trump supporters. The latter group is relatively large (slightly less than half of the population), but most of them are only mildly political and hold mainstream positions (if they have any at all)... which does not protect them from being mixed in with the neo-Nazis by the likes of certain people in this thread.

[Martell Spy]

24 minutes ago, Altherion said:

A slight correction: it's labeling a diverse range of people with widely differing opinions as neo-Nazis and refusing to interview all of them on the basis of this label that's 1984-esque. The number of actual neo-Nazis in the US is tiny -- they're a small fraction of the alt-right who are in turn a small fraction of Trump supporters. The latter group is relatively large (slightly less than half of the population), but most of them are only mildly political and hold mainstream positions (if they have any at all)... which does not protect them from being mixed in with the neo-Nazis by the likes of certain people in this thread.

Appealing to NPR is 1984-esque?

[Martell Spy]

Quote

Finally, a fourth CBP officer approached me, followed by the officer who took my Global Entry card.
"I’m the supervisor on duty. So you think because you have Global Entry you’re exempt from screening?”
“What? No. I said I’ve been screened and cleared three times so far. But despite that, your officer took my Global Entry card and said I’m being non-compliant. And he said that I’ve broken the law. But he refuses to give me any example of non-compliance or cite what law I’ve broken. Please explain this to me.”
The supervisor turned to the confiscating officer and asked, “Why’d you stop him?”

“Well, he was laughing at us.” (It’s true, I did chuckle in disbelief. Guilty as charged.)
“But did he refuse orders?”
“No, I mean, he harassed us.”
I didn’t yell at this point, but I raised my voice. “This is ridiculous. You have the power. You’re detaining me. You have my property. But somehow I’m harassing you? What? Do you hear yourself?”

 

Traveling While Muslim: The Case of the Exploding Chocolate

I got harassed at the airport by Customs and Border Patrol. Good thing I’m a lawyer—in the Trump era, others aren’t so lucky.

 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/08/11/traveling-while-muslim-the-case-of-the-exploding-chocolate-219347

[Zorral]

47 minutes ago, Altherion said:

A slight correction: it's labeling a diverse range of people with widely differing opinions as neo-Nazis and refusing to interview all of them on the basis of this label that's 1984-esque. The number of actual neo-Nazis in the US is tiny -- they're a small fraction of the alt-right who are in turn a small fraction of Trump supporters. The latter group is relatively large (slightly less than half of the population), but most of them are only mildly political and hold mainstream positions (if they have any at all)... which does not protect them from being mixed in with the neo-Nazis by the likes of certain people in this thread.

B.S.  All down the line.  All the trumpistas are racists.  They all believe that white people are discriminated against, that they are going to be outnumbered and worst of all, outnumbered.  Period.  That's why they love the orange nazi because he strokes and stokes their fears and tells them he's gonna fix it all. 

Like Brexit, which  was sold as fixing all that outnumbered blahblahblah, by now, a whole lotta brexit sorts finally getting the picture of what it will mean for the nation and for them, are going, like, hey! wait a minute maybe not a good idea.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

8 minutes ago, Zorral said:

B.S.  All down the line.  All the trumpistas are racists.  They all believe that white people are discriminated against, that they are going to be outnumbered and worst of all, outnumbered.  Period.  That's why they love the orange nazi because he strokes and stokes their fears and tells them he's gonna fix it all. 

Like Brexit, which  was sold as fixing all that outnumbered blahblahblah, by now, a whole lotta brexit sorts finally getting the picture of what it will mean for the nation and for them, are going, like, hey! wait a minute maybe not a good idea.

Well, certainly the majority of the ones that are left.

<cough>laura ingram<cough>

<cough>tucker carlson<cough>

[Darth Richard II]

Oh please, youve never met someone who’s racist against their own race?

[SweetPea]

Ah, I see. Tax cuts, the economy doing well, low unemployment, etc. etc., are not the reasons why millions of minorities support Trump. It's because they are racist against their own race.

 

Unfortunately, it seems that more and more people follow suit and are becoming racists every day. The Democratic Party support has declined in the Generic Congressional Ballot. They are now only about 3 points ahead of the Republicans, and may go even lower than that.

[OldGimletEye]

17 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

Ah, I see. Tax cuts, the economy doing well, low unemployment, etc. etc., are not the reasons why millions of minorities support Trump. It's because they are racist against their own race.

If people are supporting Trump because of tax cuts  or the economy they are being delusional or at best, badly misinformed. And it's arguable the economy is doing that great. Sure it is better than it has been over the last decade, but we're starting from a very low bar.

And please tell me your not giving him credit for this stuff (or your just using that as a pretense to support Trump).

[OldGimletEye]

9 hours ago, Squab said:

Only those with the right opinions should be heard from. We really need to move to ban wrongthink from ever entering the public arena.

Here is a question. Do Nazis and people who preach ethnic cleansing have a legitimate political opinion? Should their views even be up for debate?

[Jace, Extat]

The simplest question to ask a 'The Economy!' moron is "How's your 401K?" or "That stock market, huh? You use Etrade?"

[Bonnot OG]

If you value your own wallet over civil rights of people, then you're a selfish individual complicit in bigotry. 

Trump is a bigot. He is racist, misogynistic, ableist, homophobic, transphobic, anti-semetic etc. 

If you support him just because of the economy, he has had nothing to do with this supposedly "good" economy, then you're a pretty horrible person.
 

[SweetPea]

31 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

If people are supporting Trump because of tax cuts  or the economy they are being delusional or at best, badly misinformed. And it's arguable the economy is doing that great. Sure it is better than it has been over the last decade, but we're starting from a very low bar.

Even if you personally think those reasons are far from enough to warrant support for the Republicans, other people might disagree. And there's a world of difference between them supporting Trump because of (in your view) misinformed, illegitimate economic reasons, and them supporting Trump because they are all racists, they all fear that whites are going to be outnumbered, and they all believe Trump is going to fix that. Do you disagree?

[OldGimletEye]

9 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

Even if you personally think those reasons are far from enough to warrant support for the Republicans, other people might disagree.

Opinions differ on the shape of the Earth. Those people might disagree, but their disagreements have about no basis in fact or logic.

9 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

And there's a world of difference between them supporting Trump because of (in your view) misinformed, illegitimate reasons, and them supporting Trump because they are all racists, they all fear that whites are going to be outnumbered, and they all believe Trump is going to fix that. Do you disagree?

Given Trump's horrid actions, one would hope these people would really examine their support for Trump. If they would bother to do so, instead of being willfully ignorant, then they would find there is no reason to support him.

[SweetPea]

23 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Given Trump's horrid actions, one would hope these people would really examine their support for Trump. If they would bother to do so, instead of being willfully ignorant, then they would find there is no reason to support him.

Maybe, but do you think there's a difference between people foolishly (in your view) supporting Trump for economic reasons, or them being all racists, who fear that whites are being outnumbered and trusting that Trump will fix that?

This is the question I want answered, because I see plenty of such extreme statements in this thread without anyone challenging them.

[Rippounet]

5 hours ago, Altherion said:

A slight correction: it's labeling a diverse range of people with widely differing opinions as neo-Nazis and refusing to interview all of them on the basis of this label that's 1984-esque. 

1. Interviews are not a right.

You could be right about everything else  (you're not) and the idea that not interviewing certain people is totalitarian would still be laughably dumb.

[OldGimletEye]

32 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

Maybe, but do you think there's a difference between people foolishly (in your view)

In your view, why isn't it foolish. Explain that. Surely, you don't support Trump because of the economy. Am I right?

32 minutes ago, SweetPea said:

Maybe, but do you think there's a difference between people foolishly (in your view) supporting Trump for economic reasons, or them being all racists, who fear that whites are being outnumbered and trusting that Trump will fix that?

I'd say that not every Trump support is an outright alt-right supporter. But, keep in mind there isn't just one flavor of "racism". There are the extreme forms of it like the alt right or neo-nazis. And then sometimes it's just overt blindness or willful obtuseness to matters or a low level of resentment.

If people have decided to cast a vote for Trump because of the "economy", then in light of all the other stuff that is going on, then they really should examine whether their support of him because of the "economy" holds an ounce of water. It really doesn't, unless your rich and benefited a lot from his corporate tax cut. 

And of course a lot of people, give the economy as a pretense for voting for Trump, when in truth it is because of other reasons. If they are going to give that excuse, then they really need to be pick apart for giving that justification.

[Rippounet]

10 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

To me, at times, it seems like the hard left posters here are also retreating into a world of polemic and conspiracy theories.  Not nearly as entrenched as is the right.  But cropping up often enough to warrant concern.

This brings up my major concern.  We in the US are stuck with BOTH the hard left and hard right for the foreseeable future.

Ffs, strongly opposing nativism or ethno-nationalism is not "hard left."

[Larry of the Lawn]

11 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

Again, I see identical sentiments (about the same publications, no less) from right wing posters elsewhere.  Their response is to retreat into a sort of bubble of Fox News and conspiracy theories. 

 

To me, at times, it seems like the hard left posters here are also retreating into a world of polemic and conspiracy theories.  Not nearly as entrenched as is the right.  But cropping up often enough to warrant concern.

 

This brings up my major concern.  We in the US are stuck with BOTH the hard left and hard right for the foreseeable future.  Literally millions or tens of millions of people in both camps, many motivated, and some in positions of authority.  'Final Victory' by either faction without a monumental bloodbath is simply not going to happen.  Legally oppressing the 'other side' is not going to accomplish anything save inspire massive resentment.  A purely confrontational strategy is doomed to failure - especially when the chief purpose of a given faction is to denounce the other.   

Name one crazy 'hard-left' conspiracy advocated by anyone on this board.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

6 hours ago, SweetPea said:

Ah, I see. Tax cuts, the economy doing well, low unemployment, etc. etc., are not the reasons why millions of minorities support Trump. It's because they are racist against their own race.

 

Unfortunately, it seems that more and more people follow suit and are becoming racists every day. The Democratic Party support has declined in the Generic Congressional Ballot. They are now only about 3 points ahead of the Republicans, and may go even lower than that.

• The tax cuts (as usual) went overwhelmingly to the rich.  And, as usual, concern about budget deficits mysteriously goes away when there is a Republican in office.  
• Trump inherited a great economy from Obama, though of course the Trump supporters will never acknowledge that. The rate of job creation was higher in Obamas last 18 months than Trumps first 18
• I typical trump style, he was taking credit for other people accomplishments.  He was bragging about the state of the economy long before they passed the tax cuts or even a budget.  And they still haven't past an infrastructure bill, which this country desperately needs.
• Even if retaliatory tariffs from China, Europe, Canada have yet to take effect.  Even with out them, informal boycotts of american goods are already gaining traction.
• Trump took to Twitter yesterday to support a boycott of Harley-Davidson; for reacting in totally predictable way to a situation he created.  Without getting too detailed, that fucks with my livelihood.  For that alone, he can fuck himself.

He'll do what he always does, his bungling will catch up with him around the time he leaves office.  When it goes bad, he'll blame someone else.

The stuff about popularity is simply bullshit.  If this is the case, explain the special election election results since 2016.

Edit: You pivoted from talking about trumps popularity to the congressional ballot.  What the fuck does Trump have to do with congress?  I see what you did there.