Jump to content
Varysblackfyre321

Why hasn't there been a new Maestor at Castle black yet?

Recommended Posts

Seems the past decade or so there should have been some request to send up a Maestor to come over to Castle black  to assist Aemon instead of simply having two people who are woefully underqualified people  to help Aemon will do his job Clydas(whose half-blind and looks 60), and Chett(whose primary assistance seems to be Aemon's nurse-a job he does competently  from what we've seen, hell Chett seemed to like the old man given he refers to him in a respectful manner in his thoughts but still the guy being uneducated would  would hinder his ability to actually assist Aemon) are poor choices; what exactly would have taken so long to find Aemon a succesore? Surely the Citadel could have spared someone by now no? 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The citadel should have sent multiple novices to the wall.  The problem  was that they would have served under Aemon Targayean and learned things the Citadel didn't want them to know.

I don't have the books handy so I can't find the quote, but wasn't Maester Aemon considered one of the most dangerous men in the Seven Kingdoms?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, PrinceHenryris said:

The citadel should have sent multiple novices to the wall.  The problem  was that they would have served under Aemon Targayean and learned things the Citadel didn't want them to know.

I don't have the books handy so I can't find the quote, but wasn't Maester Aemon considered one of the most dangerous men in the Seven Kingdoms?

I've found this site helpful in looking things up in ASOIF;https://asearchoficeandfire.com/

I don't think Aemon is privy to any secrets that would make him dangerous; and even so keeping someone around him that they could trust would be the way to go about rather than leave him alone.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nights watch is a place of tired old men and sullen boys. There are no boy maesters, much less sullen boy maesters, as you have noticed and the only other tired old maester was unavailable as he was serving Stannis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one cares about the Night's Watch

They can send a billion ravens that a army of 1 million wildlings are attacking

But no one cares 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I don't think Aemon is privy to any secrets that would make him dangerous; and even so keeping someone around him that they could trust would be the way to go about rather than leave him alone.

Marwyn suggests that the Grey Sheep wanted him kept out of the way. It may be simply because he was a Targaryen, or there may be more to it.

It’s my view that he might have been privy to some interesting details with regards to Summerhall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, PrinceHenryris said:

The citadel should have sent multiple novices to the wall.  The problem  was that they would have served under Aemon Targayean and learned things the Citadel didn't want them to know.

I don't have the books handy so I can't find the quote, but wasn't Maester Aemon considered one of the most dangerous men in the Seven Kingdoms?

The Citadel don't send out novices, only trained maesters, so any grey sheep that was sent would already be well sheared. But regarding Aemon in particular, this is what Marwyn said:

Quote

A Feast for Crows - Samwell V

"Kill him?" Sam said, shocked. "Why?"

"If I tell you, they may need to kill you too." Marywn smiled a ghastly smile, the juice of the sourleaf running red between his teeth. "Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around? Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords?" He spat. "The world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons. Ask yourself why Aemon Targaryen was allowed to waste his life upon the Wall, when by rights he should have been raised to archmaester. His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can."

As to why: firstly, that was as much Aemon's decision as anyone's. The throne was offered, but he declined and went off to the Wall to prevent himself getting drawn back into things. Aemon also hadn't expressed any desire for an assistant-cum-replacement (ok, neither did Cressen, but Dragonstone was probably seen as a better 'posting' for a maester - I can't recall now whether Stannis asked for a new maester, or the Citadel just decided to send Pylos on the grounds that the warranty on the old maester is due to expire, please upgrade to this new model...)

So, is it normally down to the Lord to request a maester, or the Citadel to offer one? If the Citadel is 'building a world' as Marwyn suggests, they'll be pushing to get their people in everywhere they can, requested or not.

And, maybe, given Aemon's great age, perhaps the Citadel did send out a replacement years ago but he's already died of old age waiting for Aemon to kark it first :D

What's also not clear is whether a maester sent to the Watch also HAS to become a Black Brother. Aemon says his role is only to 'counsel the Lord Commander' - a maester can do that without joining the NW. In fact, with maesters usually serving the castle regardless of change of owners, it would seem that actually joining the NW is in conflict with maesters' usual 'neutrality'. (eg Luwin served Winterfell, not House Stark, as he went on to counsel Theon Turncloak...)

Considering that the Wall is one of those 'hinges of the World', I'm a little surprised that Marwyn, so steeped in 'the higher mysteries' is as dismissive as he is. I'd have thought the 'grey sheep' would be dismissive - as it's not central to their world-building - but that Marwyn would appreciate the magic and mythic purpose of the Wall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody takes the NW seriouisly anymore, and that includes the Citadel, so requesting maesters is likely going to be unproductive.  Plus it is unlikely that there would be any maesters willing to go there in the first place.

Jon seemed to have the right idea with Sam.  Send someone who is already a NW brother to become a maester.  Why that wasn't done earlier is a good question.  I'm sure that there were possible candidates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On August 9, 2018 at 3:41 AM, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Marwyn suggests that the Grey Sheep wanted him kept out of the way. It may be simply because he was a Targaryen, or there may be more to it.

It’s my view that he might have been privy to some interesting details with regards to Summerhall.

If the later wouldn't a simple poison be preferable? Surely they can stir something up that would kill Aemon without raising alarm-and Aemon doesn't seem the the type who hold on to secrets about an entity that did harm to his family.

 

On August 9, 2018 at 3:07 PM, Nevets said:

Nobody takes the NW seriouisly anymore, and that includes the Citadel, so requesting maesters is likely going to be unproductive.  Plus it is unlikely that there would be any maesters willing to go there in the first place.

Jon seemed to have the right idea with Sam.  Send someone who is already a NW brother to become a maester.  Why that wasn't done earlier is a good question.  I'm sure that there were possible candidates.

From what I gathered upon reading upon them, it seems as long you pay them, they'll send you one-I don't imagine the choice is actually left to individual member.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/9/2018 at 11:07 PM, Nevets said:

Jon seemed to have the right idea with Sam.  Send someone who is already a NW brother to become a maester.  Why that wasn't done earlier is a good question.  I'm sure that there were possible candidates.

I think Mormont makes it quite clear why that hasn't happened before, whilst Tyrion was at the Wall:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Tyrion III

The Lord Commander took no notice of the irritating bird. "Gared was near as old as I am and longer on the Wall," he went on, "yet it would seem he forswore himself and fled. I should never have believed it, not of him, but Lord Eddard sent me his head from Winterfell. Of Royce, there is no word. One deserter and two men lost, and now Ben Stark too has gone missing." He sighed deeply. "Who am I to send searching after him? In two years I will be seventy. Too old and too weary for the burden I bear, yet if I set it down, who will pick it up? Alliser Thorne? Bowen Marsh? I would have to be as blind as Maester Aemon not to see what they are. The Night's Watch has become an army of sullen boys and tired old men. Apart from the men at my table tonight, I have perhaps twenty who can read, and even fewer who can think, or plan, or lead. Once the Watch spent its summers building, and each Lord Commander raised the Wall higher than he found it. Now it is all we can do to stay alive."

'Twenty who can read, and fewer who can think' would suggest there were not any viable maester candidates until Sam came along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One assumes that going to the Wall isn't a thing a maester can be commanded to do easily. One has to take another set of vows to do that, and some might be unwilling to do that. The maesters are, as far as we know, not some hierarchical organization that can command their own to do whatever the Grand Maester or the Archmaesters expect of him.

We don't know how you are chosen to go to this or that castle but it might be that the actual maester has an actual say in that matter - or can at least refuse to go to a place against his will.

If that's the case then it should very hard indeed to find someone to volunteer for a position at Castle Black.

One also assume there are top positions - at court, the great castles of the Realm, beautiful castles in the Reach, the West, the Vale, and the Riverlands - that many young maesters would like to go to whereas smaller and backwater seats are not all that interesting to them. The less promising/well-connected maesters are likely send to smaller seats, etc., but the Wall would come at the very end of the list.

If the Citadel doesn't have enough maesters to fill the needs of all the (important) lords the Watch is not getting any new ones until everybody else has one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't there a rule - one maester per castle/household? And that they receive assignments for the rest of their lives? If that is not so, then Cersei would have replaced Pycelle years ago, no? :huh:

I don't think, that maesters can choose where to go. Most likely, they are sent, wherever Archmaesters will decide to send them. Probably the only choice people have, when they come to Citadel, is to either go into service, as "active" maesters/healers/medical workers, and be assigned to certain place, or to choose to remain at the Citadel to study (in this case they, probably, can also leave Citadel, when they go somewhere to do research, like Marwyn's trip to Asshai. And if they are not in active service, then they can also leave Citadel permanently, and stop being maesters. Like Oberyn Martell did).

Probably it goes both ways, and same as maesters can't choose by themselves, where to go (they have to get an assigment from their superiors), lords/masters of castles and households also can't choose which maester will be sent to them. Though it's probably not like slavery, probably maesters can request from Archmaesters, where they want to go, and maybe lords also can make requests, which maester exactly they would like to be sent to their castle for service. Though the final decision is made by Archmaesters, and they can decide whether agree to those requests/suggestions, or to choose some other place/candidate.

Probably it was Aemon's own idea to go to Castle Black. He suggested this option to his superiors, and they agreed to send him there. Probably the Citadel also can't choose whom to accept, and whom not to accept, into their ranks. So when prince Aemon Targaryen was sent to Citadel, they didn't had a choice, and had to let him become one of them, even though they didn't wanted a dragonseed to have access to their knowledge. So when he asked to be sent away, they gladly agreed to it, and finally got rid of him.

Also, most likely, to get a new maester, Night's Watch needs to send a request to Citadel, but they haven't done so. They still don't know, that maester Aemon is dead. So there was no reason for them, to ask for a new one. That's if my assumption is correct, and there is a rule "one maester per one household, serving till death".

Edited by Megorova

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as the posting to the Red Keep / Small Council, that seems to go ex offcio to the Grand Maester:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Jon I

"How long ago was this?"
"Eighty years or close enough," the Old Bear said, "and no, I still hadn't been born, though Aemon had forged half a dozen links of his maester's chain by then. Aerys wed his own sister, as the Targaryens were wont to do, and reigned for ten or twelve years. Aemon took his vows and left the Citadel to serve at some lordling's court . . . until his royal uncle died without issue. The Iron Throne passed to the last of King Daeron's four sons. That was Maekar, Aemon's father. The new king summoned all his sons to court and would have made Aemon part of his councils, but he refused, saying that would usurp the place rightly belonging to the Grand Maester. Instead he served at the keep of his eldest brother, another Daeron. Well, that one died too, leaving only a feeble-witted daughter as heir. Some pox he caught from a whore, I believe. The next brother was Aerion."

And the Grand Maester is elected by the Conclave:

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Tyrion II

"Well, it would have been more in keeping with tradition." The eunuch tittered. "Thankfully, wiser heads prevailed, and the Conclave accepted the fact of Pycelle's dismissal and set about choosing his successor. After giving due consideration to Maester Turquin the cordwainer's son and Maester Erreck the hedge knight's bastard, and thereby demonstrating to their own satisfaction that ability counts for more than birth in their order, the Conclave was on the verge of sending us Maester Gormon, a Tyrell of Highgarden. When I told your lord father, he acted at once."

 

As for Aemon taking the Black, he decided for himself - after the Council in 233AC - to put himself beyond further attempts to bring him into matters of state:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Jon I

 

Jon was not entirely innocent of the history of the realm; his own maester had seen to that. "That was the year of the Great Council," he said. "The lords passed over Prince Aerion's infant son and Prince Daeron's daughter and gave the crown to Aegon."
"Yes and no. First they offered it, quietly, to Aemon. And quietly he refused. The gods meant for him to serve, not to rule, he told them. He had sworn a vow and would not break it, though the High Septon himself offered to absolve him. Well, no sane man wanted any blood of Aerion's on the throne, and Daeron's girl was a lackwit besides being female, so they had no choice but to turn to Aemon's younger brother—Aegon, the Fifth of His Name. Aegon the Unlikely, they called him, born the fourth son of a fourth son. Aemon knew, and rightly, that if he remained at court those who disliked his brother's rule would seek to use him, so he came to the Wall. And here he has remained, while his brother and his brother's son and his son each reigned and died in turn, until Jaime Lannister put an end to the line of the Dragonkings."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

I think Mormont makes it quite clear why that hasn't happened before

I have to steal a line from @Lord Varys and ask why not try teaching some people to read? Not all the commonborn at the wall are ill-equipped mentally to actually learn.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more I hear and read about the maesters, the more inclined I am to agree with Lady Barbrey and Marwyn.

So, it shouldn't surprise any of you for me to say I don't really care why the maesters neglect the castles on the Wall. The whole realm - excluding Winterfell - neglects the Wall.

My question about maesters have more to do with their unchallenged draconian control of communication, history and medicine, the business of the Faceless Men and their scholastic brand of elitism

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Not all the commonborn at the wall are ill-equipped mentally to actually learn.

Mormont thought so, but it's good to know you know his men better than he does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On August 13, 2018 at 9:00 AM, Rufus Snow said:

Mormont thought so, but it's good to know you know his men better than he does.

You think too low of the man. He's entrusted the management one of the Castle's to a bastard of no particular noble blood. Yes he grants special treatment to brothers with noble upbringing, brought on by his own prejudices, but the man probably doesn't think peasants can't learn to read. I contend the man is not imaginative enough to think of a reading program. I think such a thing could work; surely there is some literate man who could spare an hour or so a day, to teach some seemingly bright brothers to read-hell, you could offer up higher rations for participation. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

4. How does the Citadel get financed? Lords pay for the service of the Maesters and the Citadel collects some of the revenue of Oldtown via taxes.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1284/

According to GRRM Maesters are paid for by the Lord they are sent to. So maybe the Watch cannot justify the cost of a new Maester.

Edited by KingMudd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anything the NW would probably put a Maester high on the list. 

And besides there are Northern Maesters too, I think they won't mind the wall as much as the rest.

Also, I thought you don't get to choose where you go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×