Careerchat III

[Datepalm]

7 minutes ago, Alarich II said:

Do you not have a boss or some higher authority to decide these issues? What if everyone wants to bring their dog?

I used to have an employee who would regularly work from home because she had a dog to look after. Upon request and under conditions (no shared room) the dog was allowed in the office on special occasions. This happened 4 to 6 days a year. But permanently bringing the dog? No way.

Yeah, that I would be fine with. But this person seems to be refusing to shift their own life around getting a dog, and externalizing it onto a bunch of people who did not sign up to have a dog in their life.

Our higher-up is actually kind of tricky to figure out, and the space as such is very much our own. And since this is going to be registered as a service animal, I suppose the relevant body is whoever is in charge of those labels and conditions and what happens is someone has a conflict - what does happen when someone has a seeing eye dog and supposed to share an office with someone severely allergic to dogs? And then what happens when both relationships-to-dog are more subjective than that?

[S John]

18 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

 

Also, S John, how come you object to letting dogs off in the parks? I’d have thought that was the ideal place to do so, unless I’m missing something. 

 

In theory I have no problem with it becuase what I picture is a nice fluffy dog playing a game of fetch in the park with a tennis ball.  That’s great.  But that isn’t what happens.  A lot of the parks in Austin involve some kind of body of water, due to the hellish heat in the summer, but most are relatively small areas gathered around a bend in the lake or a swimming hole at a creek or spring.  

People aren’t hanging out playing fetch with the dog, they are drinking and swimming and smoking weed and just let their dog go run around.  Inevitably a pack of dogs forms and begins to rampage through the area.  I have no problem with off leash dogs if they are supervised, I do have a problem with a pack of wet dogs blasting through my chillin area.  Usually at least they get along, but I have seen instances of dogs fighting to the point of drawing blood before the owners noticed and intervene.  

I guess overall my point is that if I encounter your off-leash dog, you better be close behind it to keep an eye on it / reassure me that your dog isn’t a rabid wild maniac, not just let it run around while you do other things.  I love dogs, I really do, but I do not like to be approached by unaccompanied animals that I do not know.  

[Iskaral Pust]

The “emotional support animal” grift has got completely out of control.  I’m expecting mobs with torches and pitchforks to rampage any day now, tearing off and burning those faux-official dog vests that apparently give license to any dog owner to untrammeled imposition on everyone around them.  This is the era of peak selfishness, with individual wants taking precedence over any consideration of others.

And I’m a dog person. 

@S John Our nearest park became unusable too because of unleashed dogs.  Dogs significantly outnumber kids in downtown Chicago.  A couple of times I yelled at people to leash their dogs (as is prominently signposted at every park entrance) after they rushed/scared/bumped my son, aged 5 at the time.  Fortunately we have other parks available nearby. 

[Datepalm]

25 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

The “emotional support animal” grift has got completely out of control.  I’m expecting mobs with torches and pitchforks to rampage any day now, tearing off and burning those faux-official dog vests that apparently give license to any dog owner to untrammeled imposition on everyone around them.  This is the era of peak selfishness, with individual wants taking precedence over any consideration of others.

I'm not so much baffled by the grift itself - you can get away with it, so you do - as by what the grift is for. Why the hell would you want to keep a dog around with you all day, every day? What is happening, societally speaking, that there's suddenly a non-trivial group of people around for whom this is such an appealing situation that you're bending and rearranging societal norms and actual rules to achieve it?

[Iskaral Pust]

19 minutes ago, Datepalm said:

I'm not so much baffled by the grift itself - you can get away with it, so you do - as by what the grift is for. Why the hell would you want to keep a dog around with you all day, every day? What is happening, societally speaking, that there's suddenly a non-trivial group of people around for whom this is such an appealing situation that you're bending and rearranging societal norms and actual rules to achieve it?

I’m not surprised at all by that aspect.  The western societies have seen a large increase in social isolation and loneliness, also lower fertility rates and deferred household formation & child-rearing.  Dogs and other pets have become replacements for kids (kids never to be born, not born yet, or moved far away to college/career), long-term relationships and close friendships.  

Although most emotional support animal aren’t really supporting deep pathologies like PTSD, they are supporting low level emotional needs around loneliness/companionship, dependence, consistent availability, tactile affection, etc.  Most people with pets now talk about them as full family members and significant parts of their lives.  I’m pretty critical of large emotional transference to pets (the friendship equivalent of a fuck puppet*) and treating pets as having the same rights/considerations as people, but there’s no doubt that modern society has left a lot of people in a situation where that pet relationship has become very important to their emotional wellbeing. 

 

*I know that sounds harsh but a pet depends on their owner for food, shelter, medical care and continued life.  And a pet has been selectively bred for millennia to be tractable.  Anyone who depends heavily on their pet relationship — with huge power imbalance, inequality and lack of agency — is stunting their ability to form healthy relationships with other people as equals with their own emotional needs, wants and agency. 

[Datepalm]

1 hour ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Although most emotional support animal aren’t really supporting deep pathologies like PTSD, they are supporting low level emotional needs around loneliness/companionship, dependence, consistent availability, tactile affection, etc.  Most people with pets now talk about them as full family members and significant parts of their lives.  I’m pretty critical of large emotional transference to pets (the friendship equivalent of a fuck puppet*) and treating pets as having the same rights/considerations as people, but there’s no doubt that modern society has left a lot of people in a situation where that pet relationship has become very important to their emotional wellbeing.

*I know that sounds harsh but a pet depends on their owner for food, shelter, medical care and continued life.  And a pet has been selectively bred for millennia to be tractable.  Anyone who depends heavily on their pet relationship — with huge power imbalance, inequality and lack of agency — is stunting their ability to form healthy relationships with other people as equals with their own emotional needs, wants and agency. 

Pfft - sublimating and displacing feelings of anomie, disconnection and meaninglessness onto a time consuming and life-structuring responsibility that you have an overly anthropomorphosized relationship with is a PhD. Getting a dog as well is just being greedy at this point.

I think that greed, however jokey i'm being, is one of the weird tensions I find in the culture here - there's a sort of public policy element to things that I (especially my kind of deep Soviet roots, unsurprisingly) feel are just personal, primarily various feelings of belonging, comfort, satisfaction, identity. Like, sometimes there's a semi-convincing argument that these feelings mirror (and impact) structural historical race/class/gender whatever, and then I can sort of shrug it off, but a lot of it is so deeply personalized It seems like its diluting the actual political dimension of this to meaninglessness and impacting real programs actually aimed at making the university more structurally accessible.*

So, sure, yes, if you moved to a big fancy university from a small, working class college, you'll have feelings of strangeness some times, and some times you'll feel like you don't belong, and sometimes it will be intimidating to go into a big-shot professors office hours. Those are, like...part of life. Hell, it would be stripping something away from life to 'fix' those. They can't be fixed. And no, you can't have a dog to make you feel better either. Because it won't, and you just need to learn to process feelings and transitions like an adult. AT THE SAME TIME (hence the tension) - the actual realm of interpersonal contact, the sphere where these kinds of feeling can be usefully addressed - ie, sharing them with your friends, getting advice and social support, listening to and realizing others often feel the same with their own particular stories and issues - is some of the shallowest and most plasticky I've ever encountered in any group of people. 

The general point about pets does resonate with me as well - I generally find overly cuddly human-animal relationships creepy and I this articulates something of why. I brought it up with a friend who is a therapist once when she suggested I get a pet, and her argument was that this was not a replacement for human connection but practice towards it, which I don't know what to make of. The decline of american social life has been a thing-people-are-worried-about for decades though...the dog issue seems far more recent, and seems more driven to me by this, well, shamelessness about demanding a kind of smooth satisfactory feeling of inner well being at all times without any variations as a basic right.

 

*This became its own rant...though back to workplace relate stuff, I guess. So, for example, my teaching assistant intake training informed me in passing that a quarter of my students will be housing-insecure over the course of their degree, and a third might skip meals, mentioned nothing more about any of this, and spent about 80% of its time and contents breaking down minutia of mildly awkward jokes that might read as sexist and setting you memorizing the exact phrasing required to respond to them to make sure everyone feels like they belong in class. My most complicated interactions with a student this semester was an older, non-traditional, parent, community college transfer - I had a lovely chats with her reassuring her and building up her confidence after a series of late and pretty bad assignments. I think it helped her feel a little better, but seemed to have a very marginal impact on her work, which appears to me to be more severely impacted by spending most of her time studying out of her car while driving around campus to avoid tickets, because she can't afford parking and obviously can't afford housing within reasonable transit distance. Another student, a first-gen immigrant with a full time job - incidentally the only two black students in a 60 person class? - missed assignments because her family were being evicted. But hey, I did a lecture on an African city in an otherwise US-oriented course she said resonated with her. Great. 

[Inigima]

I absolutely love dogs. I was raised by a veterinarian, I grew up with dogs, and while I don't have dogs right now because they don't make sense for my living situation, I hope to have some in the future. I follow a Facebook group and multiple Twitter feeds that are just dog pictures and memes. I love dogs. I still don't want other people's fucking dogs around in public places, including offices. For one thing, someone irresponsible enough to inflict their pets on other people who didn't choose to be around them cannot be trusted to, say, apply Frontline or whatever regularly. For another, I was taught not to go near strangers' dogs, because you never know how the dog will react. What will happen if this idiot's dog bites somebody at work? Or the other way, what if someone leaves some chocolate on their desk for an hour because, you know, that's not a weird thing to do in an office, and the dog eats it and dies? I can guarantee that the dog owner will not take responsibility for such an event and will instead now have a huge personal problem with another person in the office.

[Tears of Lys]

DP, this sounds like a pure power-play to me.  This person bringing their dog into the office without consulting their colleagues has shown these bullying tendencies in the past and this is just the latest iteration.  After the dog has settled in, it'll be something else, until they've pushed boundaries to the point someone just HAS to respond.    No one wants to confront them head-on at this point and be the proverbial "bad guy,"  but it's clear this little Napoleon is enjoying dictating to others and won't stop voluntarily. 

 

 

[Datepalm]

@Inigima, @Tears of Lys - I think this is completely inappropriate, but a handful of people have chimed in immediately with what seems like unalloyed enthusiasm (bizarre, IDEK) and makes me think that somehow the fact this is a dog means it doesn't follow the usual rules. It seems to be treated (by some) as no more disruptive than someone getting a plant or hanging a poster at their desk...

Though the words bullying and mobbing have guiltily occurred to me in the context of this person before, which makes this look increasingly like a pattern, yeah. (previously I'd left the benefit of the doubt that this was mostly just someone with a really bad ability to contextualize generic statements to actual individuals in front of them.)

[Isis]

One of my colleagues brings her teenage daughter into work sometimes (she attends a private school and gets longer holidays, which raises childcare issues). At no time have any of the six other people in this small office been asked if this was ok. The daughter is not disruptive really, although I've complained about the constant noise from her rubbish apple headphones.

But I just thought I'd note that nobody was consulted about this. It just happened. 

[Mexal]

I did it for an internal job where I was able to get the name of the hiring manager and I wanted to make sure my CV was read. Ended up getting the job and moving to London which was very much my goal. 

[Iskaral Pust]

@Triskele reaching out like that sounds fine provided you use the contact details in the job posting or you already plausibly know the hiring manager.  

The line not to cross is when you don’t know the hiring manager and you circumvent the allowed communication channel, e.g. using Linked-In to guess who to email directly instead of the recruiter, and then start harassing them for special consideration — although the people who do it never seem to think of it as harassment. 

[Mexal]

2 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

@Triskele reaching out like that sounds fine provided you use the contact details in the job posting or you already plausibly know the hiring manager.  

The line not to cross is when you don’t know the hiring manager and you circumvent the allowed communication channel, e.g. using Linked-In to guess who to email directly instead of the recruiter, and then start harassing them for special consideration — although the people who do it never seem to think of it as harassment. 

Agreed with this. There is definitely nuance there.

[S John]

Time for an update.  I got a new job!  I’ll be starting the 14th and I will be mostly a remote employee, which is a score.  Company is based in LA, aside from resume skills they liked that I live in Austin which is an area they are looking to expand into.  Company is small but working in an emerging area of technology in my field with a lot of potential.

On one hand I applied for a remote position partly because I was hoping to be able to live anywhere, in which case The woman and I would move back east and live in the blue ridge mountains somewhere near my family, but on the other hand it seems like they want me to do a little business development stuff in addition to technical work, so I am happy about the possibility of growing new skills.  I like Austin enough to stay a while longer  yet and who knows what they might let me do in the future if I prove valuable.  

I applied for a second job around the same time as the one I recently accepted (over the summer) but that job is Federal and honestly I expect the full hiring process to take at least another year.  I know that I made it through the first two rounds of vetting, but still have yet to speak to an actual human being and I know there will be a massive background check should I get an offer.  Bottom line was I couldn’t really wait around at my current job to find out with this other offer in hand.  Bird in the hand and all that.  I would hate to leave somewhere soon after being brought in if the Fed job comes through, but I will have to weigh the options when the time comes.  There is an option to withdraw myself from consideration but I’m going to let it ride and see what happens.

My current employer is none to happy with me.  I notified them as soon as I decided to accept the new position which was before the Christmas break and more than a 2 weeks notice.  The associate director was trying to make me feel bad about it, saying something like he didn’t trust a place that would ask you to screw over your current employer by ‘only’ giving 2 weeks.  Isn’t that the standard?  It felt clear to me he was trying to sow doubt about the new job and it pissed me off, though I do like the guy in general.  Also I DISTINCTLY remember this same man trying to get me in there ASAP when I was hired in the first place.  I pulled off a move halfway across the county at breakneck speed because of this same dude.

In fairness, we do have a big project coming up after the first of the year and I am a critical part of the plan to complete that project, but the timing was beyond my control and not done maliciously.  He also asked me to ask my new employer if I could go do my training and orientation on the 14th and then return to work for them again until this big project is finished using my vacation time (that they are going to have to pay me out for) to stay on board while I’m out in California.  I was kinda like... lol what?  We don’t even know when we will be able to start to new project because of some technical issues so there’s no way I can do that.  I said I’d think about it because he caught me off guard but if he brings it up again I’ll flat out tell him I’m not going to do that.  I did offer to help them out as a part time employee on weekends/ evenings here and there if it would help get them through, but we will see.

I may have posted about my situation before but to summarize it’s a good stable job but I’ve been doing the same shit for 5 years and repeated requests for development / mentorship on performance evaluations have gone ignored.  My salary is crap for my experience and education and the only reason I’ve held out was becuase the job is semi-prestigious and to see if my direct boss would leave (he is constantly complaining about hating Texas) because I would get that job and a raise that would bring me up close to where I really should be.  Long story short, over the summer they let him take a leave of absence for a year to work on his PhD and I’ve just been kind of expected to keep his seat warm while keeping the program afloat in his absence with no additional incentive.  When he returns he still has to do the research portion of the PhD which will mean at least 2-3 more years of spinning my wheels before, maybe, he might decide to move on.  That, and talking with a few of my peers at other places about salary and learning just how much the gap in compensation has grown since I’ve been here, solidified that I had to leave.  I’m falling father behind helping someone else get ahead.  Not going to fly.  I just can’t let my future sit in the hands of someone else’s personal decisions like that.  

Since he’s on leave of absence, and not in the country I sent my boss a polite email explaining that I was leaving and a brief (and again polite) description of why.  Sent that email on the 21st and he has not responded.  I can only assume he is epically pissed at me.  

I genuinely feel bad for my other coworkers who will bear the brunt of having to cover for my absence on this upcoming work, but the new place offered me a 32% raise plus annual bonuses.  I gave more than a 2 weeks, I offered to stay on part time until the project ends, I don’t see how I could have handled it any differently.  I still have a few more days off before returning to work and I’m expecting maximum awkwardness.

 

[Datepalm]

@S John - Congrats! Sounds like the right move...also, IIRC, you current employer is an academic institution of some size? I mean, academic culture vis a vis labour and employment generally leans towards the hypocritical and insane, so that all sounds par the course. I've kind of learned not to stress weird emotionality and simmering resentment turned ones way over seemingly straightforward things like trying to, say, run down a lost paycheck (fortunately back home, not yet here, but I imagine its just a matter of time.) Ignore them and move on.

[baxus]

@S John Giving two weeks notice and having offered to stay on part time for a while if needed is quite enough on your part. Don't stress about it. Regarding your boss's behavior, look at it as him making it easier for you to leave. I'm sure he'd prefer it if you stayed on indefinitely and your new employer paid you for that time.  

I have zero sympathy for bosses being assholes when their employees are leaving. Had an unpleasant experience myself some 4 years ago when the employer first tried to have me stay for 60 days after quitting even though contract of employment stated 30 days and the law dictates a minimum of 15 days. Basically, I told him that if he tries to pull that crap, I'll leave after 15 days during which I'll spend my leftover vacation days. Later he tried to not pay me my last salary until we had "the talk" about why I'm leaving (which he kept on postponing) etc. and had no response when called up on his behavior. The only thing he achieved by behaving the way he did just made me all the more certain that leaving is a great idea and made sure that when asked about the company I'd never recommend anyone to seek employment there and give the details when asked why.

[Theda Baratheon]

yikes well the company i work for is going into administration and i had to find out on the news because it's almost 5pm now and my boss still hasn't messaged me to let me know.

[S John]

@Datepalm @baxus

Thanks, it’s nice to bounce things off the folks in here to make sure I wasn’t the one taking crazy pills.  I didn’t think I was, but it’s been a while since I’ve gone through the process of switching jobs.

[Iskaral Pust]

@S John Congratulations on the new role and best of luck with it.  

It’s not unreasonable for an employer to hope for more than two weeks notice from an experienced professional with significant responsibilities.  I would prefer a month from my people; two weeks is more appropriate for junior staff.  But bottom line is that you are not responsible for their poor management.  Your focus is on your new role, and an extra couple of weeks won’t make or break their new big project.  If your new employer wants you to start by a specific date, then stick to that.  I would not offer them any part-time assistance after your departure; that’s an unnecessary and thankless distraction from your new role. 

[williamjm]

6 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said:

yikes well the company i work for is going into administration and i had to find out on the news because it's almost 5pm now and my boss still hasn't messaged me to let me know.

That does seem very poor from your manager not to get in contact about it. Hopefully they manage to make it out of administration (again).