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3 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Would it have bothered you at all/changed anything if the candidate had contacted you during that time asking something along the lines of “further to my interview last week, blah blah have you made a decision?” (Obviously more elegantly worded...) and as a bit of a follow up question to that, how long is reasonable in your opinion for a candidate to reach out and enquire about their application?

This includes an interesting implied question of "what might annoy an interviewer so much that they lose interest even after you did a great interview?".  And there are things that are generally viewed as red flags.  Some I agree with, some I don't, but these are ones that commonly get mentioned:

- lack of general courtesy: did not send thank-you notes, did not address the receptionist/admin assistant with courtesy, did not thank people for taking time to meet with them, harassed people constantly for updates (kept selling after the close)....I try to not be too much of a stickler here, but anyone who seems like a high-handed jerk won't get hired.

- too demanding: makes too many requests for special treatment or seeks to negotiate for too many special considerations, or demands that you make them an offer right now because they have another offer and they need to decide, or just needs tons of personal time and attention for attention/validation/reassurance.  Big firms are bureaucratic and generally don't want to customize benefits, so you better be an extremely high value candidate to be worth the headache to the hiring manager.  Plus you look like a high-maintenance employee.  No more than two special requests as you negotiate, and then don't ask for anything more until at least six months of successful tenure with the firm.

dishonesty: lying or misrepresenting, e.g. on a CV/resume or in the interview, is a big red flag.  A slightly weak resume is much better than being viewed as dishonest.  Very few people will ever get hired if caught in an outright lie.

- troublemaker: if HR thinks you are too quick to make complaints about normal/reasonable interactions, then they'll ask us not to hire you.  I'm very supportive of people who have refused to continue working under bullies or in toxic environments.  But if every job you've had was full of jerks, then maybe you're the problem.  HR really doesn't want to bring a lawsuit-waiting-to-happen into the firm.

uncertain or limited visa eligibility: this is a deal-breaker for most US firms.  Too much risk that they'll be forced to let go the employee within a year and start the process over.  from personal experience I try to be accommodating here within reason (moreso than HR would), but then I've had cause for regret twice in the past year.

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4 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

- lack of general courtesy: did not send thank-you notes, did not address the receptionist/admin assistant with courtesy, did not thank people for taking time to meet with them, harassed people constantly for updates (kept selling after the close)....I try to not be too much of a stickler here, but anyone who seems like a high-handed jerk won't get hired.

Most of these are common sense, but... thank-you notes? I've always thanked people in person, but I've never sent a note. I know that they were used historically, but what industries are they still expected in?

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1 minute ago, Altherion said:

Most of these are common sense, but... thank-you notes? I've always thanked people in person, but I've never sent a note. I know that they were used historically, but what industries are they still expected in?

Yeah, that's one where I personally would not be a stickler, but I would notice if one candidate did not send a short follow-up email to say thank you for the opportunity to interview.  It's not a huge red flag but shows a low awareness of protocol*.  Once when I interviewed for a very large, very well known asset management firm, my advocate/coach there (who initiated the recruitment) suggested that I send hand-written thank-you notes.  I though that was a bit archaic, but I followed his suggestion anyway.

*It's like the old canard about dress code for consultants and bankers: there is no explicit guidelines on how to dress because if you cannot recognize what would be appropriate for a given situation, then you're in the wrong job.

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Thank you, that is good to know. Except for the interviews themselves, I mostly communicated with the companies I interviewed at through recruiters (i.e. I usually didn't have direct access to the interviewer) so maybe they did this for me.

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15 hours ago, Altherion said:

Thank you, that is good to know. Except for the interviews themselves, I mostly communicated with the companies I interviewed at through recruiters (i.e. I usually didn't have direct access to the interviewer) so maybe they did this for me.

I would offer to exchange business cards with each interviewer at the start of The interview.  If they declined/demurred then it meant they didn’t want me to contact them directly, even just for a short thank-you note.  Similarly you can ask the recruiter if it’s ok to send a thank-you note (and, if so, to provide the email addresses) — this way the courtesy is acknowledged even if it is declined.  

But I would not limit my post-interview touchpoint to only the recruiter unless so directed (explicitly or implicitly).  The hiring manager is the person with whom you need to make a connection, be memorable and establish a courteous rapport.  Just keep it brief and don’t start harassing them.

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4 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I would offer to exchange business cards with each interviewer at the start of The interview.  If they declined/demurred then it meant they didn’t want me to contact them directly, even just for a short thank-you note.  Similarly you can ask the recruiter if it’s ok to send a thank-you note (and, if so, to provide the email addresses) — this way the courtesy is acknowledged even if it is declined.  

But I would not limit my post-interview touchpoint to only the recruiter unless so directed (explicitly or implicitly).  The hiring manager is the person with whom you need to make a connection, be memorable and establish a courteous rapport.  Just keep it brief and don’t start harassing them.

First, thank you for answering and then going into further detail. Greatly appreciated.

Is your advice specifically for higher level positions though? Just when you are talking of giving out business cards etc. that isn’t something you can typically do at graduate level. Amd, as Altherion said, a lot of contact will often be through a recruiter. Quite often there isn’t contact with the interviewer prior to the day. What would you say here? Ask that your contact pass along a message? Or find some contact details via the website/LinkedIn etc? My concern with the latter of course being that unsolicited messages may be a bit iffy

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2 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

First, thank you for answering and then going into further detail. Greatly appreciated.

Is your advice specifically for higher level positions though? Just when you are talking of giving out business cards etc. that isn’t something you can typically do at graduate level. Amd, as Altherion said, a lot of contact will often be through a recruiter. Quite often there isn’t contact with the interviewer prior to the day. What would you say here? Ask that your contact pass along a message? Or find some contact details via the website/LinkedIn etc? My concern with the latter of course being that unsolicited messages may be a bit iffy

Not specific to higher level.  Even at graduate level you can print some business cards very cheaply.  Offering yours to each interviewer gives them the option to reciprocate or demur.  If they reciprocate then it’s OK to send a short thank-you note by email.  If they demur then they would prefer you not.  Just don’t make it a big deal either way.  You want to behave in a collegial way, not like a desperate supplicant.

Don’t stalk them on Linked-In. 

If business cards seems affected or too formal to you, then you can just ask the recruiter if it’s ok to send a thank-you note.  But they are more likely to stop you even if the interviewers would not have minded.  The recruiter is your main contact but not the main decision maker.  The hiring manager is who you want to make a memorable connection with.

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2 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Don’t stalk them on Linked-In. 

 

I won't even question for a second that this sort of thing happens  

My question is this:   how great is my obligation to have the bare minimum Linked-In account?  

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20 minutes ago, Triskele said:

I won't even question for a second that this sort of thing happens  

My question is this:   how great is my obligation to have the bare minimum Linked-In account?  

I think not, for most people, but it can be a very effective job hunting tool.

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1 hour ago, Triskele said:

I won't even question for a second that this sort of thing happens  

My question is this:   how great is my obligation to have the bare minimum Linked-In account?  

Agreed with Ini, not an obligation at all.  It’s a nice tool to keep track of all the people with whom you cross paths over the years, and can be a good way to look at the background of people you encounter, but it also opens you to spam approaches from marketing types.

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Has anyone ever give their company and management very poor remarks in their year in review survey? I normally just give the socially desired responses, but this time I really let them have it and it sounds like several of my coworkers did the same. The office has been horribly mismanaged. 

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I wanted to separate this part, but also with regards to the above, I am ecstatic to say that I have hit my high end savings goal to go back to school and get either a PhD, JD or JD/MBA. $50k isn't a ton of money, but it's pretty good when you're 30 and I can stretch that out to cover the cost of living for three years, and that doesn't include the additional money I'll make over the next 17 months, plus I have another $5k set aside to spend six weeks in Europe. Combined this with also having paid off all of my undergrad and car debt and I think I'm in a great place to finally go back to school.

Now I just have to be married to my GRE and LSAT training books. Here's to the joys of studying boring materials...

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I was starting to think that this place I'd interviewed with had decided to go in another direction, but maybe they were just busy after all.  I got a call from an HR person asking me to come in for that interview with the CFO.  The HR person actually used the language "a final interview" which tracks with the feeling I had in the first interview that it was this doctor who was the main decision maker.  So that interview isn't for a bit yet, but now it's hard not to feel like I did coming out of the interview which is that this place is genuinely interested.  So now I'm back to being curious about how, given that on paper it's somewhat of a lateral move, much more they might offer me salary-wise, and I really have very little idea how to gauge this.  It's making me start to try to do mental exercises to the tune of "how little of an increase would I say no thank you to?" and/or "how much more do I need to make it a no-brainer?"  

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19 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Has anyone ever give their company and management very poor remarks in their year in review survey? I normally just give the socially desired responses, but this time I really let them have it and it sounds like several of my coworkers did the same. The office has been horribly mismanaged. 

Yes, I have been brutally honest when I thought it was needed and wanted to generate some change.  But I first decided that I was unlikely to face specific retaliation for doing so.  Perhaps that would not be true at every company.

Congratulations on your savings to finance your next chapter.  Accumulating $50k after taxes during your 20's is no small achievement.

 

@Triskele  congratulations on positive progress.  I don't know what comp expectations you should have, but it's always good to identify your own "reserve" price for stay/go.

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Concur with Iskaral. I almost always give positive responses to our annual survey, but gave very negative responses to one specific category once. The survey was nominally anonymous, but they asked enough questions about what part of the org you worked for that I'm skeptical of any real anonymity. Definitely need to be sure that either it's anonymous or you won't face retaliation for being honest.

You may also want to evaluate whether your honest response will elicit any changes.

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I also gave some negative responses to one of these surveys once. It was a situation where I was unhappy, toying with the idea of moving on, and confident I would easily find another job.

I found out afterwards that average survey scores across the whole department were way down. A couple of managers got moved sideways shortly afterwards and things improved substantially. I ended up staying for some while longer.

So it can sometimes work ...

 

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