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12 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Thank you for the input :) my post sounded a bit pissed off at the recruiter but I didn’t mean to, she was actually lovely and I liked the experience of it. Afternoon so much rejection I guess I’m just slightly paranoid.

Its not my first choice of place to work after my degree, but if that doesn’t work out, which is likely, then I will definitely get in touch

Just an add on/update to this. I had sent a standard follow-up email thanking this lady for the interview, as well as asking the best way to get in contact after my degree - should I contact her directly or apply again via the job vacancy board? 

Reply today was to contact her directly as she would be recruiting throughout the year. So yes, seems my paranoia/pessimism was unwarranted. Thank you to @Iskaral PustPust and @Erik of Hazelfield

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Got contacted by a company I interviewed with last July to tell me they were expanding the offices up here and would I be interested in coming along to the recruitment day because they were very happy with how I had done in my previous interview :) as it happens, I can't commit to the start date because of university but it was a lovely confidence boost all the same. 

I have a question on my CV. It's just a basic linear CV since I have little experience, and I'm wondering how to build something into it. As part of my uni course I'm going to be doing a student law office where we give legal advice to real clients. This obviously entails a lot of relevant stuff for legal careers - research, interviewing, client care letters etc . I'd like to include this on my CV but not sure how/where to include it. Education, listed under my current course? Work? And is it acceptable vto include stuff like this?

Any advice is appreciated

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7 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Got contacted by a company I interviewed with last July to tell me they were expanding the offices up here and would I be interested in coming along to the recruitment day because they were very happy with how I had done in my previous interview :) as it happens, I can't commit to the start date because of university but it was a lovely confidence boost all the same. 

I have a question on my CV. It's just a basic linear CV since I have little experience, and I'm wondering how to build something into it. As part of my uni course I'm going to be doing a student law office where we give legal advice to real clients. This obviously entails a lot of relevant stuff for legal careers - research, interviewing, client care letters etc . I'd like to include this on my CV but not sure how/where to include it. Education, listed under my current course? Work? And is it acceptable vto include stuff like this?

Any advice is appreciated

When I was looking for a new job a few years back, I would adjust my resume depending on the job. I had 'Relevant Skills & Experience' tab that I listed things under. It worked well for me. I had it above where I started my work experience. I'm by no means an expert when it comes to building a top notch CV though.

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15 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I have a question on my CV. It's just a basic linear CV since I have little experience, and I'm wondering how to build something into it. As part of my uni course I'm going to be doing a student law office where we give legal advice to real clients. This obviously entails a lot of relevant stuff for legal careers - research, interviewing, client care letters etc . I'd like to include this on my CV but not sure how/where to include it. Education, listed under my current course? Work? And is it acceptable vto include stuff like this?

Any advice is appreciated

It’s ok to include stuff like this in your work experience on your CV, e.g. recent grads with little experience will often mention their experience as a TA, tutoring or overseeing a lab at university.  You refer to your school as the place of employment, and say “unpaid” and/or “volunteer” if either or both are the case.  The space spent on this just needs to be proportional to relevance. 

BUT something you’re going to do is very different from something you’ve actually done.  You need to phrase that very carefully to make clear that it’s a prospective activity.  But if it’s directly relevant, then it’s worth putting on there so your CV stands out from the crowd.

 

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9 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

It’s ok to include stuff like this in your work experience on your CV, e.g. recent grads with little experience will often mention their experience as a TA, tutoring or overseeing a lab at university.  You refer to your school as the place of employment, and say “unpaid” and/or “volunteer” if either or both are the case.  The space spent on this just needs to be proportional to relevance. 

BUT something you’re going to do is very different from something you’ve actually done.  You need to phrase that very carefully to make clear that it’s a prospective activity.  But if it’s directly relevant, then it’s worth putting on there so your CV stands out from the crowd.

 

Thanks, and thanks @Joe PesciPesci too. Very helpful. I will probably make it feature very prominently because, as you surmised, I have little relevant experience and this is the kind of thing that shows skills and experience directly relevant to what I'm applying for.

On your last point, I was aware of this, and wasn't planning to build it into my CV until I have actually done some of it. I start this week, this question was just in anticipation of when I come to update my CV. I don't think I would feel comfortable/confident trying to work into my CV that something is just a prospective activity (after all, there is always the chance of it's prospective that you never do it)

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I am a fool.  I'd had that question upthread on whether or not I should be including cover letters.  Well, I'd always been on the job board for existing employees.  I stumbled upon the site for the place more generally which had more bells and whistles, and they had an FAQ about the job boards which directly addressed this issue.

They state that if the job does not specifically require a cover letter that it can be uploaded with one's resume.  None that I've seen have requested one, but this seems to confirm that it's an option.  

This has actually made me slightly relieved in that it gives me a bit of hope that not including cover letters has hurt me so far and that doing a targeted cover letter going forward might up my odds.  We'll see.  

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Huh, actually got an invite for an interview at last (from resume only, no cover letter).  It looks like it's possibly a lateral move but perhaps not, will need to learn more in the interview.

Question for anyone who has thoughts:  how likely is it that hiring managers assume that they need to offer you an increase over your current pay in order to entice you?  I really have no idea.  This job posting was for one that's technically in the same category as my current one, but there's a huge salary range for these positions.  It's unlikely I'd jump ship for anything that wasn't an increase, but is that an assumption on their part?  

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Trisk, I think they do expect to give an increase, although from what I know usually not too large. I've seen a lot of advice about trying to not disclose your current salary for this reason--what they are able and willing to pay you should be independent of what your previous company paid you, and you want to avoid being boxed in by your previous salary. So if it gets to the salary negotiation part, I would just tell them what you are looking for (obviously with some room for negotiating) and not tie it to "well my current position pays X" (unless they are trying to pay you *less* than your current salary, which would be not ideal). Of course I've never really done this in practice as I haven't stayed in any one field long enough. :lol:

Curious for some thoughts from the hive mind: my boyfriend is currently a post-doctoral researcher (academia). He's planning to move here and leave academia for a job in industry (like data science/software engineering). He'll need an employer to sponsor his visa, but the visa itself should be straightforward (he's eligible for one that never hits quota). His current contract runs through July. When should he be starting to reach out and make contacts, maybe start applying? He'll be moving in with me on his tourist visa this summer regardless of the job situation, which means he'll have about 3 months before that clock runs out (obviously we'll be keeping everything very legal in regards to immigration). Should he just wait until he gets here? Is job-hunting impossible from another continent? (He's in Europe right now.) How can he not freak out potential employers about the visa sponsorship? He's not really asked me for help with this but I want to make sure I'm doing everything I can to help out, since it's a pretty big deal that he's moving to the US for me and all. Just curious if anyone has any experience with something similar or any advice to offer. Thanks!

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@Starkess my advice is to talk to an immigration specialist now if you haven't already done so. It's a sensitive dance to be coming into the US on a temporary visitor visa and not make it look like you're planning on staying permanently for work. CBP are absolutely on the lookout for that sort of thing. 

I navigated the system as a TN/H1-B/F-1/Green Card through marriage [and soon to be citizen]. But I did it as Canadian and the rules and requirements are slightly different than from other countries because of trade agreements/proximity etc. 

Will he be able to apply for the visa while in the US? Many require processing externally in the home country. Anyways, working with an immigration specialist will give you an idea on how long the paperwork takes which will inform when your bf should start looking. I would expect he should start now. It could work out to his not needing a tourist visa if the timing fits. Five months isn't that long of a runway in immigration matters.

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13 hours ago, Starkess said:

Curious for some thoughts from the hive mind: my boyfriend is currently a post-doctoral researcher (academia). He's planning to move here and leave academia for a job in industry (like data science/software engineering). He'll need an employer to sponsor his visa, but the visa itself should be straightforward (he's eligible for one that never hits quota). His current contract runs through July. When should he be starting to reach out and make contacts, maybe start applying? He'll be moving in with me on his tourist visa this summer regardless of the job situation, which means he'll have about 3 months before that clock runs out (obviously we'll be keeping everything very legal in regards to immigration). Should he just wait until he gets here? Is job-hunting impossible from another continent? (He's in Europe right now.) How can he not freak out potential employers about the visa sponsorship? He's not really asked me for help with this but I want to make sure I'm doing everything I can to help out, since it's a pretty big deal that he's moving to the US for me and all. Just curious if anyone has any experience with something similar or any advice to offer. Thanks!

I cannot help you with the immigration issues as I went through this as a US citizen, but a couple of years ago, I was also a post-doc based in Europe who was looking for data science jobs in the US. Job-hunting from another continent is difficult, but not impossible. Roughly two thirds of the first-round interviews I had were phone interviews which can be done from Europe. In some ways it is actually easier because an afternoon interview in the US will fall outside of working hours in Europe. If they really like him and he explains the situation, he may be able to convince them to do the second-round interviews by phone too, though I only managed this once. I've heard stories of before the Great Recession when companies used to pay for the flights of candidates to in-person interviews, but I don't know if this happens anymore (if it does, it's rare).

Don't worry too much about them freaking out regarding the visa sponsorship -- every tech company I've interacted with is very familiar with this process and in fact when I finally got a job, the person leading me through the I-9 process initially assumed that I need this (presumably because my name is uncommon in the US) and was fully ready for it. Just explain the situation clearly and, if they think it's worth their while, they'll take care of it.

Three months is not much if he's starting from scratch; even if he can't fly to the US, I'd recommend starting at least a month or two sooner. Keep in mind that unless the application is for a startup or there is some other rare circumstance that requires an individual to start immediately, practically all such companies have multiple rounds of interviews which may be separated by a week or two each. Also keep in mind that tech industry people speak a rather different language from people in academia and it may take a few interviews simply to get used to that (I walked out of a couple feeling like I had absolutely no idea what they were even asking only to realize later that I very nearly knew the answers, it's only the way they asked that was confusing).

There's actually a set of programs that helps deal with this gap between industry and academia. I don't know if this will help you as it is specific to certain locations and dates and I didn't end up using it myself, but I know some people who did train with them and they were satisfied. Also, it is (or at least it was) definitely possible to apply from outside of the US and go through the process via videoconferencing.

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23 hours ago, Triskele said:

Question for anyone who has thoughts:  how likely is it that hiring managers assume that they need to offer you an increase over your current pay in order to entice you?

Based on my experience so far (it may or may not translate, since we are on opposite sides of the planet in countries with pretty big economic differences) they are likely to offer an increase. I mean, changing jobs is a pretty big deal in anyone's life so why would anyone expect you to make such a big change in your life without making it worth your while? If they don't do it in a way of salary increase, they better make damn sure to do it through either some projects that might take your career up a few levels or some stock options or some bonuses or whatever.

I second what @Starkess said about not revealing your current salary. I have been pressed for that info on occasion and have replied that my current salary is between my employer and me and should not concern them.

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@kairparavel / @Altherion : Thanks for the input! This is a strange situation to navigate because he's lived in several countries and so has navigated immigration crap before, but he's never worked outside of academia, and while I have industry experience I've always lived in the US. He's visiting this week so I'll talk to him more about the timeline and consulting with some non-Google immigration specialists.

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Thanks for that feedback.  I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think that because I'm applying within an organization they might be able to just look it up.  It's also a state institution where salaries are public and can be looked up in a certain database.  So I think in my particular case it's likely that they'll have a really good idea of what I make currently.  

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Sooooo...a while back, I'd mentioned I've been in the market because of the toxic nature of dealing with my immediate senior manager.  This manager hasnt gotten better, even as I've had no recent nibbles beyond a couple positions that would have been significant pay cuts...

Anyway, last Tuesday, we had a large snowstorm.  Another department, but under the same umbrella as mine, had a number of call offs. The manager in charge of that area was really busting to get things done to open on time with little assistance (sadly I was on a scheduled vacation day, so not about to help). Our boss, rather than supporting and assisting, instead apparently made this manager stop trying to get ready and spend what amounted to around 30 minutes of precious time "game planning" where to assign people, despite the fact that he was already working with a plan.  It was the straw that broke the camel's back. He submitted a resignation the next morning. The boss ignored him the rest of that day. On Thursday, he left after only and hour or two of the first day of his final two weeks. It's not clear if he was asked to leave or he simply decided it wasn't worth it. 

However, he was popular with other managers in our division.  A movement has begun, but it's going through the clients, rather than our own compnay...it's making me nervous, but I have things to say too...all, at this time, appears will be done with complete anonymity among participants.  

Work just seems to have gotten a bit more surreal. I need some more opportunities...

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On 2/17/2019 at 11:03 AM, Altherion said:

There's actually a set of programs that helps deal with this gap between industry and academia. I don't know if this will help you as it is specific to certain locations and dates and I didn't end up using it myself, but I know some people who did train with them and they were satisfied. Also, it is (or at least it was) definitely possible to apply from outside of the US and go through the process via videoconferencing.

I think I have vaguely heard good stuff about these guys...

...in related Academia Sucks We Should All Leave Burn It To The Ground news, ugh, Theory Dudes who are pretentiously progressive and simultaneously utter bullying assholes is such a cliche by now, maybe don't do it, other TA on this course? I have no idea how to navigate the situation. I think this other guy I'm TAing a big course with is an obnoxious douche, fine, but the third TA - who is younger, less familiar with the specific material, less confident in her English, and an MA student to my 1st year PhD and his 5th? 6th? something? year PhD* - is straight up feeling bullied by him. He sent the emails in question to all of us - she's not wrong. He attacked her for sending out notices to her own students (we each teach a subset of the course) with assignment timelines and suggested readings and resources, using some kind of bizarre Royal We, and calling it 'an embarassment to all of us' (loose paraphrase) and so on and (contradicting earlier established - also by him - rules) now appears bent on micromanaging all our independent activities.  He's generally a dick who tends to talk over anyone else in the room (especially if they're a woman? I have a hard time figuring it out. No one else likes him, and by no one, I mean, all the women in the department, but n is too small to isolate for sure.) but this is moving to straight up workplace bullying to my mind and argh. There's no point to this, just venting. :-/

*Because why ever get anything done when you apparently have endless guaranteed funding to waste all of our time for, I assume, eternity.

ETA - in good news, I have yet to see the dog.  In neutral news, dog person has literally not spoken a word to me since the semester started.

Edited by Datepalm

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@Triskele in many states (and the number is growing) it’s now illegal for an employer to ask an applicant about their prior pay history.  It’s intended to protect women from being offered a lower salary than a similar male applicant just because they are coming from a lower salary.  Some employers might have used a rule of thumb of offering X% above former pay to all applicants, but that just locks in any prior pattern of discriminatory lower pay.  So the process now is for applicants to express a target pay range early on, which has its own problem because they might lowball themselves or over-estimate and take themselves out of contention.  There are still a lot of situations though where comp is only discussed at the end of the process and both parties find themselves far apart — wasting time and effort for both. 

But since you are considering a move within the same organization, I doubt that prohibition on knowing your current comp applies to your situation, unless it is a different legal entity within a loose affiliation, e.g. has a different W9 tax ID.  So in your specific case, you might want to ask HR about the policy on internal job transfers.  My own company insists that the default practice is for internal job changes to occur at identical comp and title/level, although special exceptions are possible.  I think that’s mainly a practice to stifle comp growth.  If your new role would have a more senior title/level then you can more easily make the case for an associated bump in comp. 

With my current employer, I twice moved into bigger roles with greater responsibility, although still nominally the same career level (I’ve been a partner all along), and I had no adjustment in comp either time.  I guess I could have made a bigger deal about it if I thought I was underpaid, but it was surprising that there was no automatic consideration.  So don’t take it for granted. 

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@Jaxom 1974 Sorry, that does sound toxic.  My own boss is an unfortunate combination of incompetent and unintentionally obnoxious — not actually a bully (we have a couple of those elsewhere in the leadership stack), but a universally grating dickhead.  There’s a passive-aggressive mutiny in progress whereby all of his direct reports are trying to ignore him as much as possible and hoping he fails out ASAP.  It’s not pleasant to watch.  He’s just a terrible choice for any leadership role, but he doesn’t see it that way and the monumentally disengaged president of our business put him there with no forethought and doesn’t monitor his actual performance at all (he only manages up to the CEO).

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Not without consternation, I am now almost certainly sure I will successfully defend this summer.  My oath upon successfully defending and entering academia "officially" with a doctorate will be the same as all others:

Quote

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

Take away the wife and children part, and yeah, pretty much how it goes.

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