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S John

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IANAL, but in the past postings on this board have been used in a variety of legal discoveries for all manner of things. This is a publicly accessible, viewable forum and your privacy is not legally guaranteed, and it can be used against you both professionally and legally. 

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20 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I need some advice on a serious matter.

But first, I need to know...if someone were to ask for some advice on a message board about how to handle potentially explosive revelations at that person's company, could that message board post possibly be detrimental to possible future legal proceedings?

In short, yes.  This is a public message board and this information would be discoverable.

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14 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I doubt it, but be vague and make it sound hypothetical. Let's see what the fine people at Westeros LLC think: 

@Mlle. Zabzie 

@Ser Scot A Ellison

@sologdin

 

My view is that sort of depends what the issue is, your position at the company, who the company is (and whether it is publicly traded), and a bunch of other stuff.  I personally also think if you have to ask, you shouldn't share, even in the vague and hypothetical sense.  Less about anything like that in writing the better.

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1 hour ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

My view is that sort of depends what the issue is, your position at the company, who the company is (and whether it is publicly traded), and a bunch of other stuff.  I personally also think if you have to ask, you shouldn't share, even in the vague and hypothetical sense.  Less about anything like that in writing the better.

It wasn't the crime itself that undid you, Zabz. This cover up smells of Iran-Contra! 

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I delayed posting an update until the saga was complete:

I accepted an offer at the new firm, gave notice to my old employer, managed the transition period with colleagues and clients, relocated my family to CT, and today started at my new firm.  Very glad to be hear, but an exhausting process to make the move. 

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On 11/12/2019 at 12:34 AM, Iskaral Pust said:

I delayed posting an update until the saga was complete:

I accepted an offer at the new firm, gave notice to my old employer, managed the transition period with colleagues and clients, relocated my family to CT, and today started at my new firm.  Very glad to be hear, but an exhausting process to make the move. 

I suspected as much from your post in the exercise thread. Congrats! How has the transition been going?

 

i had a fairly trashing couple of weeks at work, working solo on a project that really required three or more people, but due to holidays and other project work we lacked capacity to use three people. Anyway, did lots of overtime on this project (my first ever 12 hour shift in this kind of work) and will finally be over and done with monday (just a few final tweaks and then some uploading of docs for the client). Its been difficult but the instructing solicitor in london actually went out of his way to phone me yesterday purely to thank me for the hard work and offered to arrange for a more substantial debriefing and feedback session next week. So that was lovely.

 

Just want to say i am very very happy with my employer and the level of care and investment they put into their employees. I have, erm...issues, which ive talked about elsewhere on the forum and they led to some absences. Work have just been so supportive though and put so much in place (e.g. flexible work policies, HR support, support, sessions with our mental health first aider) to help me in case this happens again in future, as well as making a referral to OH. I just feel so happy and comfortable here and i think being respected by your employer just improves your productivity so much.

 

Anyway, end of sappy love post...

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3 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I suspected as much from your post in the exercise thread. Congrats! How has the transition been going?

 

i had a fairly trashing couple of weeks at work, working solo on a project that really required three or more people, but due to holidays and other project work we lacked capacity to use three people. Anyway, did lots of overtime on this project (my first ever 12 hour shift in this kind of work) and will finally be over and done with monday (just a few final tweaks and then some uploading of docs for the client). Its been difficult but the instructing solicitor in london actually went out of his way to phone me yesterday purely to thank me for the hard work and offered to arrange for a more substantial debriefing and feedback session next week. So that was lovely.

 

Just want to say i am very very happy with my employer and the level of care and investment they put into their employees. I have, erm...issues, which ive talked about elsewhere on the forum and they led to some absences. Work have just been so supportive though and put so much in place (e.g. flexible work policies, HR support, support, sessions with our mental health first aider) to help me in case this happens again in future, as well as making a referral to OH. I just feel so happy and comfortable here and i think being respected by your employer just improves your productivity so much.

 

Anyway, end of sappy love post...

Great to hear you feel appreciated and supported.  A positive environment like that makes a huge difference, even if you’re working long hours on busy projects. 

My transition is OK so far.  We’re living in a leased apartment for a few months, so it won’t feel like a permanent home.  My son is quite happy about the move.  My wife is missing the city (and is suspicious of trees, greenery, etc) — I hope she’ll connect with some new friends soon to help. 

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What are the thoughts on interview-appropriate clothing in very cold temperatures when you have to use the bus, which might mean waiting extended periods of time outside and walking for a bit?

I basically live in skinny jeans and that is most of what I have available as far as trousers go. If the weather was normal, I would wear a dress/skirt to an interview and look nice, but I don't want to go outside into -6°C just in tights and low shoes, brrrrrrr. Is it terrible to wear a dress and thermo tights + ankle boots (similar to this type, I don't do high heels)? Is it okay to just go in jeans? Would it make more sense to dress nicely and burn some more fossil fuels and pay the parking, borrowing a car (the distance between the interview building and the nearest available parking is still a few minutes' walk, basically the same as from the bus stop to the building)?

Oh, and the job is not in a very formal setting, it is teaching in a high school. On the job, one would basically only need to look formal enough not to be mistaken for a student. :P

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Buckwheat said:

What are the thoughts on interview-appropriate clothing in very cold temperatures when you have to use the bus, which might mean waiting extended periods of time outside and walking for a bit?

I basically live in skinny jeans and that is most of what I have available as far as trousers go. If the weather was normal, I would wear a dress/skirt to an interview and look nice, but I don't want to go outside into -6°C just in tights and low shoes, brrrrrrr. Is it terrible to wear a dress and thermo tights + ankle boots (similar to this type, I don't do high heels)? Is it okay to just go in jeans? Would it make more sense to dress nicely and burn some more fossil fuels and pay the parking, borrowing a car (the distance between the interview building and the nearest available parking is still a few minutes' walk, basically the same as from the bus stop to the building)?

Oh, and the job is not in a very formal setting, it is teaching in a high school. On the job, one would basically only need to look formal enough not to be mistaken for a student. :P

Definite no to wearing jeans, probably no to the ankle boots. Skirt and thermo tights, i don’t see the issue. You could also wear trousers, which thinking on it is what most of my female teachers wore on a day to day basis, and probably the most common kind of winter wear in my office too. Colour isnpersonal preference as long as it isnt too out there (i.e. no neon pink :P ). Something like these:

https://www2.hm.com/en_gb/productpage.0752814002.html

i actually quite like the check pattern i linked to.

And i don’t think it matters if you might not dress as smart in the actual job. For example, i interviewed once for sports direct, where the uniform is tracksuit bottoms and a polo shirt. I was still expected to wear formal business attire to the interview. It may seem unfair but that is as it is.

Shoes, boots are not a problem, just not in the style you linked. Given your tastes/style, a chelsea boot might be your thing: https://www.pavers.co.uk/collections/womens-smart-boots/products/leather-chelsea-ankle-boot-belgl30001-316-437?variant=31117043499093

 

eta: with the trousers, i would wear a smart, simple blouse, e.g https://www2.hm.com/en_gb/productpage.0695632002.html this is light enough that you can wear a nice warm comfy coat to travel in without ruffling all your layers 

Edited by HelenaExMachina

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Definite no to wearing jeans, probably no to the ankle boots. Skirt and thermo tights, i don’t see the issue. You could also wear trousers, which thinking on it is what most of my female teachers wore on a day to day basis, and probably the most common kind of winter wear in my office too. Colour isnpersonal preference as long as it isnt too out there (i.e. no neon pink :P ). Something like these:

https://www2.hm.com/en_gb/productpage.0752814002.html

i actually quite like the check pattern i linked to.

And i don’t think it matters if you might not dress as smart in the actual job. For example, i interviewed once for sports direct, where the uniform is tracksuit bottoms and a polo shirt. I was still expected to wear formal business attire to the interview. It may seem unfair but that is as it is.

Shoes, boots are not a problem, just not in the style you linked. Given your tastes/style, a chelsea boot might be your thing: https://www.pavers.co.uk/collections/womens-smart-boots/products/leather-chelsea-ankle-boot-belgl30001-316-437?variant=31117043499093

Oh, I know what would be appropriate in theory, the problem is I don't have anything like what you linked and it is a bit too late to go shopping now, as the interview is tomorrow ... and I absolutely loathe shopping for clothes, that is why I have so little choice. That is why jeans are my only option now, I think. I am still deciding between the black ones and the slightly less jeansy light beige/almost white, slightly better trousers, but I don't have any appropriate shoes to go with them.

BTW, I also like the check pattern of the trousers you linked, but I don't like that they are so short. I dislike this style where the long trousers (in theory) leave the ankle exposed.

Edited by Buckwheat

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I would take a change of shoes and do a change around the corner. 

Plenty of my colleagues would wear snow boots to get into work (commuting into London by train/tube/bus), then change into 'indoor' shoes once they're in the building. 

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Thanks for your thoughts, Helena and Isis. I went with a change of shoes, yep, it was the most sensible.

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11 hours ago, Buckwheat said:

Thanks for your thoughts, Helena and Isis. I went with a change of shoes, yep, it was the most sensible.

Not sure why i didnt think of the change of shoes as that is what i do in wet weather!

hope it went well

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I have what I guess is an etiquette question on a scenario that hasn't fully played out yet but I think may in the coming weeks.

My current position made a statement a few months ago that they're working on a pay increase for me and said some nice things when they said this, etc...nice to hear...but nothing's happened yet and it's been since mid-Fall.  But I don't think it's blowing smoke because at the same place something very similar happened and the increase did come through in the end just like they'd said.  I think it's a lot of red tape type of thing.  

Well, I interviewed for another position outside of this dept, and while there's no offer, it felt promising and would almost certainly be at a better pay if the offer came and I'd be tempted to take it.  

Then also at the current position we've learned that someone is going to be going on leave soon which is going to make me sort of invaluable simply because I'm the person with the best cross-over coverage for what our office does with the person going out.  So if I were to get this other offer and leave it would be unusually difficult timing for my current spot.

Now perhaps I won't get this other offer and it'll all be moot, but if I were to get it and accept it I wouldn't be too surprised if my current place tried to make a counteroffer to keep me which i might have suspected under normal circumstances but think it could be more likely given the leave situation of the co-worker. 

Does anyone have any sense of how these counter-offer situations tend to go or are viewed generally in the professional world?  I feel like I've seen at least one article once upon a time suggesting that it's bad form to accept a new position and then renege if your current employer takes action to try to keep you?  I feel like the existence of that article at least suggests that this is not that uncommon of a situation, but I ask because for me it's very new.  thanks

ETA:  Another angle that I think this one article I'm recalling might have cautioned is that if one gets a counter-offer to stay where they are it's inherently a weird situation if one stays because it's now known that you went all the way to an offer at another position.  

Edited by Triskele

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Counter-offers is a difficult game to play. It can backfire in many ways and it's hard not to feel disloyal towards one employer or the other.

One option in such situations is to play with open cards. To tell your employer that you're looking for a new challenge and maybe considering joining another company, but also that staying is an option, especially if they see a potential for a promotion (or similar boon) in the short term. That way they get an opportunity to speed up said promotion without feeling that you've betrayed them, and it's also not burning any bridges with the new company. I think many employers would appreciate such openness.

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Hey @Triskele, sorry to hear they never followed through on their promises.  But nice that you’re still finding other possibilities in the organization. 

Counter-offers are generally viewed negatively because most employees leave not long after anyway or because they fear retribution/resentment.  But counter-offers can work if both sides handle it well.  I’ve retained people before using counter-offers, but I only attempted it in a small number of situations where I thought it would work, especially where the person was right to seek better pay elsewhere. They gave me ammunition to get them the pay raise they deserved, which doesn’t always happen otherwise when firms are forcibly managing budgets.  Importantly, they were happy in their current role and career opportunity if they could just get paid better now.

I even accepted a counter-offer once myself, although I left two years later anyway. 

You are feeling some guilt about leaving your team in a bad temporary situation.  That’s not a good reason for you to put your long term career options on hold.  And it creates a problem when your  colleague returns anyway.  The better way to approach this with your current team is to remind them of your longer term concerns about having a path to career and compensation progression, and ask them flat out whether that path lies outside the team.  Perhaps they’ll be more willing to commit to you now, but be wary of short-term fixes that only waste your time.

You can always be available as a knowledge resource to whoever they bring into the team.  That’ll assuage your guilt.  Your team has kept you in a role for a couple of years below the comp level you are seeking.  They cannot act all hurt if you leave now just because they’ll be short-handed.  You don’t owe them years of your labor below market pay, especially not when you’ve made it clear that this was something they needed to address. 

Best of luck. 

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Thanks, all - I'm not too worried about what the bad timing of my departure would do short-term to my current place, and if this other opportunity were to materialize I don't think there'd be too hard of feelings.  And I do think that their recent "we're working on a raise for you" was mostly sincere and will probably still happen.  I do suspect though that if I get this other position (still a total unknown) that it will be more pay than the current place even if that raise comes through.  

That combined with them being short-handed in a bad way is where I could possibly envision some kind of counter-offer situation.  

It's hard to put odds on the other position.  Had the interview Friday and sent a quick thank you follow-up today.  Really difficult to gauge how many others I'd be competing with.  My assessment of how my skills fit their needs was something like "really solid guy in our field overall but work experience is not a 100% match" so it could come down to whether they find another applicant who has done the exact work that they need to hire for.  Another potentially interesting wrinkle there though is that it's project management type of position where, while there are 3-4 years remaining on the project, they're almost certainly behind in getting someone in there at the moment.  Wonder if that's a situation where they take someone who's an 75% match quickly rather than hold out and risk going however long before they find that 100% match.  

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I've always been told not to accept counter offers — they should have valued you appropriately if they wanted to keep you, and it puts a target on your back for replacement. It seems different if it's an internal transfer though. On the other hand, seems awfully unusual to even get a counter offer for an internal transfer. 

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